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Peruvian Morning - Central Waters Brewing Co.

Not Rated.
Peruvian MorningPeruvian Morning

Educational use only; do not reuse.

450 Reviews
no score

(Send Samples)
Reviews: 450
Hads: 1,425
Avg: 4.11
pDev: 22.63%
Wants: 416
Gots: 296 | FT: 17
Brewed by:
Central Waters Brewing Co. visit their website
Wisconsin, United States

Style | ABV
American Double / Imperial Stout |  8.50% ABV

Availability: Winter

Notes & Commercial Description:
Beer added by: brdc on 01-29-2008

2012 Release: Recalled due to infection
2013 Release: Recalled (at least in part) due to infection
2014 Release: Recalled due to infection
2015 Tap only release
Beer: Reviews & Ratings
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Reviews: 450 | Hads: 1,425
Photo of amphion1065
1.61/5  rDev -60.8%
look: 2 | smell: 1 | taste: 2 | feel: 1.5 | overall: 1.5

12 oz. bottle from 2010 poured into a Portsmouth tulip. One of several extras from Knifestyles.

Basically black. A half-finger brown head with loose bubbles forms but subsides quickly. Minor lacing.

The aroma is very odd. It's sort of like a vegetable stew. There is definitely corn in here, and to be completely honest it sort of smells like Fritos.

The taste is markedly better than the smell. Sort of a Mexican chocolate thing going on, with fudge and some peppery spices. No real coffee to speak of. However, there's also that very odd, vegetal taste throughout.

Mouthfeel is thin and overcarbonated. Time has not improved the drinkability of this beer.

A beer that I imagine is wonderful fresh, this has not held up well. I'm not quite sure what happened, given that this particular bottle wasn't terribly old. I'll hold out for a new sample in the future.

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Photo of ehammond1
1.99/5  rDev -51.6%
look: 4 | smell: 2.5 | taste: 1.5 | feel: 2.5 | overall: 1.5

Bottle (2012)

Acquired via trade
Thanks, stig!

A pretty imperial stout. Very dark brown, bordering on black throughout, with a nice dark brown cap that leaves irregular spiderwebs of sticky bubbles down the glass.

The terrible infection isn't nearly as detectable in the aroma. There's still some distinct coffee and chocolate notes left lingering, though any barrel presence has seemed to turn into a bit of a vinegar/sour/cherry/tart intrusion.

The flavor is indeed awfully infected. It wasn't so bad at its coldest temperature, but upon minutes of warming, this beer is undrinkable. Sharp notes of vinegar, sour, stale cherries, don't mix at all well with some lingering coffee and chocolate notes. Not the worst thing I've put in my mouth, but not a lot redeeming attributes here.

Medium bodied with high carbonation.

I will find something else to drink tonight.

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2.04/5  rDev -50.4%
look: 3 | smell: 4 | taste: 1 | feel: 3 | overall: 1

Infected! Too sour to drink. Disgusting. Purchased three four packs of this stuff,and every bottle was infected. If I ever get hold of a non-infected example,I will be sure to re-review,but as it stands,the beer I've had both last year(2012) and this year(2013) have been repulsive.

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Photo of MusicaleMike
2.05/5  rDev -50.1%
look: 4 | smell: 4 | taste: 1.25 | feel: 1.5 | overall: 1


2013 Version

I was pretty excited to try the newer batch as my 2012 bottle was terrible. Well, I was doubly disappointed with this year's batch. Poured beautifully, left some lacing overall looked good.

Smell initially was fantastic, with coffee and vanilla and bourbon all seeming to come through beautifully. Where they lost me...AGAIN...is the taste. This is what a beer tastes like that is turning sour. HOW could you do this to a beer brand 2 years in a row, especially if you knew that last years was flawed??

I adjusted my reviews accordingly. Is this literally the worst tasting beer I've ever had? No, but it is the worst tasting bourbon-barrel aged coffee stout that I have ever had. I'm done with Peruvian Morning.

2012 Version.

Black body topped by a decent sized, tan, foam head. When held up to light, you can see deep garnet hues through the beer. Head recedes to a pretty thick layer on top and stays around a while.

The beer smells as advertised: bourbon and coffee. Pretty even balance between the two delivers notes of vanilla, espresso, and cocoa. Pretty tasty aroma, though there is something slightly off. Not sure how to verbalize it though.

Whoops....what is wrong with this beer?! I certainly was not expecting this to be sour or tart at all, and yet this beer has quite a bite to it! Tart on the backend towards the sides and then a biting finish. I think it is probable that this beer was infected. Aside from that major issue however, there is a mild flavor of coffee and bourbon. So while this is beer is not great, it could taste worse.

Very light bodied. Carbonation is decent, good in fact. The body is just remarkably light bodied for a stout though. It really should have more body here, and this helps me think that there is an infection with this beer.

I have had some great beers from Central Waters, but this isn't one of them. I will be on the lookout for any previous releases, or future releases. But in general I will completely avoid any 2012 bottle, especially at $5 a 12 oz. bottle.

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Photo of mdaschaf
2.59/5  rDev -37%
look: 3.75 | smell: 4 | taste: 2 | feel: 2 | overall: 2

2012. Thanks to Joe for this one!

A: A decent looking beer, very deep brown, not quite black, with a small tan head on top that leaves a nice cap on top. No lacing though.

S: Has a really nice aroma, plenty of coffee and chocolate. Some caramel and a little vanilla mixed in.

T: The flavor however, is quite a bit different. It took a while for the infection to really show through, it was masked by the temperature at first. Rather sour, some cherry and a bit of vinegar mask some light chocolate and coffee underneath.

M: Medium bodied with low carbonation.

O: Was hoping it wasn't infected and had high hopes based off the aroma, but the flavor was just off.

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Photo of br3wmeister
2.7/5  rDev -34.3%
look: 4 | smell: 1.5 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 4 | overall: 3.5

A- Medium tan head that drops some what quickly, leaving a think cap on the beer. The beer itself is a very dark brown.

S- Very sweet syrupy aroma, chocolate, BUTTER, caramel, vanilla, bourbon and some oak all mixed together in an aroma that actually rubs me the wrong way.

T- The taste is much better then the aroma. Milk chocolate, caramel, some buttery bourbon flavors along with some coffee and hop presence. As it warmed up more butter flavors came through and I had a hard time drinking it.

M- Medium bodied with a good amount of carbonation, but not over done.

Overall this is not a good imperial stout . I would not buy it again.

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Photo of Jeffo
2.74/5  rDev -33.3%
look: 2 | smell: 3 | taste: 3 | feel: 2 | overall: 2.5

Bottle provided by SliverX in a recent trade. Cheers for all the brews man!

From a bottle into a snifter
Vintage: 2012

APPEARANCE: A light brown, transparent pour produces a one finger, thin looking, loose, fizzy, cream white colored head with horrible retention. Head quickly fizzes down to a half wisp and ring. Bistre brown body with no carbonation evident. A light ring remains but leaves no real lacing. A very light and thin pour with a loose, fizzy, cola-like head. Poor showing.

SMELL: Roasted and sweet caramel malt, oak, sweet ceam and vanilla in there. Coffee and espress are definitely on board with a touch of bourbon as well. This is a coffee stout first and a barrel aged stout second. Not bad, but not really as balaced as I'd hoped.

TASTE: Roasted malts, lots of caramel sweetness and some bourbon barrel up front. Bourbon, oak and sweet creamy vanilla move in through the middle and into the swallow. Barrel, dark cherries and coffee bitterness in the bold but dry aftertaste. A lot more caramel, toffee, vanilla and dark cherry sweetness than coffee actually. Tasty enough, but doesn't exactly match the nose very well.

PALATE: Light body, medium carbonation and quite airy on the palate. Goes down alright and finishes pretty sticky. Not big and thick enough; definitely too light for the style.

OVERALL: The look and feel were basically like coke, which was a huge disappointment. The nose and flavor were alright, but not quite as balanced as I'd hoped. Too sweet in the flavor profile without the necessary coffee bitterness to support it. The barrel could have been more prevalent after the swallow as well. In the end, this one just didn't measure up. Glad to have tried this one, so cheers again SliverX.

EDIT: Drinking a 2014 now and it's pretty awful. There's a tartness in there and it's a touch hotter than it should be at this ABV. Really light in color and thin body too. Would score it a 2 at best.

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Photo of hopsbreath
2.76/5  rDev -32.8%
look: 2 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 3 | feel: 2 | overall: 2

Another Wisconsin beer, another shout out to zimmerbloke. Thanks Matt. Your generosity is seemingly boundless.

A: 2011 batch poured into a Portsmouth snifter. Dark brown with translucent cola edges. A finger of beige head diminishes to a glass ring. No lacing evident. 2/5

S: Strong bourbon is the overwhelming aroma, spice and pepper lingers right behind the -bal, vanilla is a good accent. 3.5/5

T: Following the nose, the bourbon is again dominant. The coffee is easily found hiding behind the brown liquor, but its not quite as robust as I prefer for a coffee infused stout. It tastes good but I wish there was more to it and some greater depth. 3/5

M: Thin, highly carbed, and just not as viscous as I want for a stout. 2/5

O: I have to say that I've wanted to like the beers from Central Waters, but so far they're coming up a little short. This beer could be so much more but is semi-pedestrian in its current form. Flaws were apparent at almost every level. It could be darker, thicker, and more complex. This fits the definition of "not impressed". 2/5

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Photo of Alpar
2.81/5  rDev -31.6%
look: 4 | smell: 3 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 2.5 | overall: 3

Review written from notes.

A: Dark brown not quite black but close to.

S: huge coffee and malt but just coffee for the most part.

T: This is less than the nose leads on. Yeah it has a lot of coffee flavor but not like what you would expect from the smell. It almost seems like a ginger step brother of KBS. Just doesn't quite compare.

O: This is good but not anywhere near what the hype says it to be. The Bourbon Barrel barleywine is far superior when talking about their special release beers.

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Photo of ianjmiles
2.82/5  rDev -31.4%
look: 4.25 | smell: 4 | taste: 2 | feel: 3 | overall: 2.5

Not sure if this ones infected...or if this beer is just that mediocre

It looks and smells well enough, a deep, dark brown with moderate head due to an aggressive pour. I pick up bourbon and coffee in the nose and perhaps a bit of cocoa.

First sip...wow. Not at all what I was expecting. Quite sour and fruity tasting. Upon warming this became less noticeable, but if you ask me, fruit has no place in a coffee stout.

Especially considering the price, this one was a big letdown. Reminds me of a breakfast stout that I let sit for 5 or so months...the coffee fades too far back and the flavors become confused. Not quite a drain pour, but close.

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Photo of cokes
2.94/5  rDev -28.5%
look: 4 | smell: 2.5 | taste: 3 | feel: 3 | overall: 3

Pours to a opaque dark chocolate color with a fleeting beige cap, that eventually lingers as a skimming and a collar.
Coffee grounds, caramel fudge, hazelnutty-black cherry-charred oak bourbon barrel evidence. All that is well and good, and basically as expected...what comes as a surprise is the sharp dill notes. Yeah, that's right. Like pickles. I don't know what to say, besides, what the fuck?
Tarry, roasty malts wriggle their way through the mouth. Wisps of smoke precede the broader (and bitterer) coffee beans. Fudge pops up and smothers it all in a nutty chocolate. Barrel aging manifest with primarily char and oaky tannins, though smaller traces of black cherry, hazelnut, and vanilla. Dill notes bleed over from the nose, with a slight sourness that is well out of place. It ends with a (minor, but notable) lingering charred astringency and crushed aspirins.
The body is medium-full with a rolling, minor carbonation, that gives it a near fluffiness. It's not as rich and round as I expected, or feel it needs to be.
If this is their same Coffee Stout recipe aged in Bourbon barrels, then something has gone wrong. Maybe more barrel aging is necessary to extract the sweeter woody flavors and not merely the char?
I had pretty high expectations, and was let way down. I've never tasted dill in a beer before. So chalk one up for experience.

I love Bourbon and I love beer. But part of me wants the whole Bourbon barrel-aged beer bubble to burst. Sometimes it works magic (GI BCS), but it seems a gimmick more often than not. Here it simply serves as a detriment.

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Photo of mulder1010
2.94/5  rDev -28.5%
look: 3 | smell: 4 | taste: 3 | feel: 2 | overall: 2

Thanks to burnheartsMKE for the bottle. Much appreciated
355 ML poured into a globe glass
2012 vintage

A-- Poured a light cola color and settled a dark brownish black color with a lot of ruby tints. No head really. Went from light brown film to a light brown collar. Aggressive swirling got a bit of head but went back to a collar pretty quick. Couple of lines of lacing and spots.

S-- Couple of other reviewers have said a lot like KBS and have to agree. Lots of coffee with slight amounts of bourbon, vanilla, toasted coconut and wood. The coffee nose is most dominant and then the barrel notes. Coffee is quite fresh and carries the nose well.

S-- Coffee, acid from the coffee, cherry infused bourbon, coconut and artificial vanilla. Changes to a dark cherry infused bourbon taste.

M-- Thin body, high carbonation for the style. Roast and coffee are apparent in the feel. No sour notes but artificial vanilla and cherry flavors as it does get sickly sweet in the mouth after the initial blast of roast and coffee. Finishes with a blast of coffee and quite dry. More like wine like feel with the tannins and fruit.

O-- Too much of an artificial sweet cherry and vanilla feel to this that brings it down. Good coffee nose and feel but the cherry infused bourbon is a bit odd and offsets the good parts of the coffee. No sour notes at all but do think this infected.

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Photo of Jimmys
2.95/5  rDev -28.2%
look: 3.5 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 4 | overall: 2.5

12 oz bottle. bottled on Jan. 2012.

A: i would actually call this body a very dark brown instead of black. head is a brownish white color and is made up of tight bubbles. retention is average w/ good lacing.

S: a lot of bourbon and oak off the bat. the booze is strong, almost too much so. beneath the bourbon some coffee notes are detectable. vanilla. chocolate too.

T: similar to the nose, my first sip is filled with a strong whiskey/bourbon flavor. the flavor is almost a little too bourbon-y and takes away from some of the other enjoyable flavors here. slightly astringent. there is coffee in there somewhere, but the bourbon astringent-ness is too much for me. tastes kind of like an infection?

M: body is pretty silky smooth. full bodied flavor.

D: finding this one a little too one-note, especially considering the note isnt exactly the best flavor out there. the astringency of the bourbon isnt enjoyable and is rather disappointing. it also could be infected which is a real bummer cause i was looking forward to this bottle. bummmed.

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Photo of Jacurdy60
2.97/5  rDev -27.7%
look: 3.25 | smell: 3 | taste: 2.75 | feel: 3.5 | overall: 3

A-Pours a dark brown/black color with a thin, carbonated and fuzzy head. Not as good looking as most stouts.

S-Chocolate, coffee, sour fruits. Not too pleasing

T-Sour as hell at the front, at the middle, and the finish. Maybe this is a bad bottle, because I am finding no depth or nuances despite its 93 rating.

MF-Watery and overcarbonated.

O-Tastes like a stout mixed with a flanders with the mouthfeel of a diet soda. This was very disappointing, but perhaps I got a bad bottle.

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Photo of fear025
2.97/5  rDev -27.7%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 2 | feel: 2.5 | overall: 3

Aroma:Coffee, caramel, and dark malts in the aroma.

Appearance:Black with a head that dissipates fairly quickly. Medium lacing.

Taste:Lots of strong coffee flavor. There's a certain chemical flavor that's rather unpleasant. The aftertaste has some good hop bitterness.

Mouthfeel:Light to medium body. There's a harsh mouthfeel from the coffee. Good carbonation.

Overall:I'm not that thrilled with this beer, it's a little too harsh, and the coffee flavors, while present, are not as dominant as I would like.

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Photo of BulbMan
3/5  rDev -27%
look: 3 | smell: 3 | taste: 3 | feel: 3 | overall: 3

2011 bottle thanks to Baconsausage. This one's got a bit of age on it. Poured into a snifter.

A: Medium brown, little bit of a quick creamy head that quickly disappeared. Somewhat translucent. Looks more like a brown ale than a stout.

S: Not getting much smell when cool, nose is mostly of bourbon as it warms with a little vanilla. Faint metallic smell. Really unremarkable.

T: Some dark fruit, just a hint, barely, of coffee, and then bourbon, but not really in a good way. And BA RISs are my favorite. Tastes more like a BA brown ale than an imperial stout.

M: Pretty light, much lighter than expected. Much more watery than I like my big stouts.

O: Did not live up to the hype for me. The age might have done this one in a bit. Need to try it fresh.

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Photo of Phelps
3.02/5  rDev -26.5%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 2 | feel: 4 | overall: 2.5

Bottle into Lost Abbey stemware.

Like mixed paint, dark yet thin. One finger of fuzzy latte-colored head lays atop like a fleece blanket.

Smells like mocha of the highest quality. Crumbly cocoa, espresso, vanilla, graham cracker.

Tangy. Has this gone sour? Coffee bitterness quickly becomes sour dark cherries. Mocha and oak can be picked up, but the tartness is overpowering. It's not totally bad, but it definitely doesn't belong.

The fleece blanket descriptor I used before might be better here. The body is smooth and creamy, the fizz moderate and tingly.

Wish the sour stuff wasn't here -- I'm sure this is a great beer when fresh.

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Photo of StoneTSR
3.07/5  rDev -25.3%
look: 3.5 | smell: 4 | taste: 3 | feel: 2 | overall: 2.5

APPEARANCE: This foams up a lot more than I expected a big Imperial Stout to. A full finger of head swells up, leaving just enough space in my glass to pour this beer sans sediment that I could see through the bottle. The color is pitch black with a touch of brown coming through around the edges.

SMELL: Uh oh. I’m smelling citrus right off the bat. For an IPA, great, and maybe for a big stout, but for it to be this dominant makes me worry that, sadly, this may be one of those infected. There’s also an unusual, but nice cola smell. A little coffee and chocolate can also be detected, but only after the head fades.

The chocolate really picks up a lot as it warms, and actually becomes a wonderfully dominating aroma. So, unlike as I am about to describe in the taste, the smell gets better with warmth.

TASTE: Dark chocolate, vanilla and mocha. There isn’t as much roasty flavor as I expected, but there certainly is coffee, just more like a mocha flavor with heavy chocolate and maybe even a hint of caramel. The vanilla is very nice and rounding too, but this is off just enough to prevent it from being great. That tart citrus from the nose is just too strong here and it overwhelms the intended flavors. It really is a shame because it is clear to see what a great beer this has the potential to be. Looking forward to trying next year’s batch.

What’s worse is that as this warms it is tasting more and more off. Ugh. So sad. I’m looking back into previous reviews now and someone before me said “a bit of soy sauce”. Yep. There’s that, and it doesn’t belong here.

MOUTHFEEL: Sadly, the most notable element of the mouthfeel is the slight pucker that comes from the tartness. Otherwise, it has a light tickle, although more carbonation than usual from an imperial stout.

OVERALL: The only other Central Waters offerings I have had have been incredible. This is clearly a beer that set out to be amazing, and elements of greatness are there, but I think it is only fair to review it as I had it. After all, the brewery let it out there and people should know what they’re dealing with when deciding to purchase, or trade for, this beer.

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Photo of GeorgiaBeerGuy
3.08/5  rDev -25.1%
look: 4.5 | smell: 4 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 2.5 | overall: 3

Bottle, 50°F, into a coffee mug.

A: nice, dark, black with a thin head.

S: bourbon and coffee in the nose...

T: wow. sour! not what i expected this morning. finished it, but under protest. I don't get much of the malt, or the barrel.

M: thin, fizzy, tingly.

O: I think I am victim of the infected batch. This is the second one of my 4, and not any better. had given it some time to age, but that hasn't helped, may actually be worse for wear.

Oh well.

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Photo of RaulMondesi
3.17/5  rDev -22.9%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 2.5 | feel: 2.5 | overall: 3

Raul picked up this thang as an extra in a trade - shout out to tha homie for being Mother Theresa-like.

Raul was pumped at first; looks like a nice stout, smells even nicer than my baby mama after a quick spritz... But unlike said baby mama, the taste... Woo doggy! A bit sour, a bit funky, and a bit off. Taste like Raul's baby mama this does not. It just leaves this residual nastiness on the tongue...

Raul does not approve.

*was this infected? So weird.

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Photo of Steasy66
3.24/5  rDev -21.2%
look: 3 | smell: 4 | taste: 3 | feel: 3 | overall: 3

A Jet black, no head at all
S Coffee coffee and more coffee
T A bit of malt, but basically all coffee
M Completely flat, could be a bit thicker
O This beer just isn't my style, its all coffee and lacks ballance in my opinion. If you like a coffee stout that is very coffee forward you would probably like this, but its not for me.

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Photo of natasharai
3.25/5  rDev -20.9%
look: 4 | smell: 4 | taste: 3 | feel: 1.5 | overall: 3.5

Appearance: Poured with a large fizzy head that calmed down and became very creamy and dissipated leaving some thick lacing at the top of my glass. The beer is a very dark brown, and only lets light through around the edges.

Smell: Strong coffee smell, roasted malt, dark chocolate, and some plum/cherry notes, the alcohol becomes quite noticeable as it warms.

Taste: Strong roasted coffee, strong buttery toffee, dark roasted malt, a lot of bourbon like flavor, harsh alcohol, ends with a small bitter burnt flavor

Mouthfeel: Light bodied, fizzy, alcohol burn, leaves mouth dry.

Overall: The drinkability isn't terrible, but the feel makes it a bit lower. This beer smells and looks pretty good, but once you drink it the mouthfeel is really distracting. The flavors aren't bad, although there is more of an alcohol presence than I would desire. The mouthfeel is very fizzy and does not match the flavors. Especially at first, the mouthfeel really takes away from the flavors and makes it hard to really enjoy them.

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Photo of azdback
3.28/5  rDev -20.2%
look: 4 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 3 | feel: 3 | overall: 3.5

Feb. 2012 bottle poured into a Bruery tulip. Deep dark black color with the slightest of dark brown highlights when held up to the morning sunlight. Small one finger head, that was light tan in color and creamy in appearance. Head drops fairly rapidly and is leaving very little lace.

Smell is at first, super deep, dark roasted coffee beans. Some slight milk chocolate comes out as well as some wood and lots of dark fruit as it warms. There is also some alcohol smell that I would compare to ether.

Taste is all sweet and tart bing cherries. I am getting none of the great flavors I got in the nose. No coffee, no chocolate, no wood. It kind of tastes like Red Stag mixed with an average stout.

Mouth is on the velvety side. Carbonation is a bit on the spritzy side for a Double Stout. Body is balanced and the finish is average and quite dry for it's style.

Overall I had high hopes for this one but was let down. I tried a friends home brewed stout last week that tasted a lot like this. My friend added oak chips, that he charred and let soak in a mason jar with Makers Mark for a month, to the underlying stout. I wasn't impressed with his attempt either but he's no pro. I'm Just sayin'. Thank you so much to injuredreserve for giving me this bottle. I would love to give this one some time and maybe it changes for the better.

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Photo of Rizalini
3.31/5  rDev -19.5%
look: 3.25 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 3.25 | feel: 3.25 | overall: 3.25

Received this botttle from Sheffield's in Chicago, and poured into a Delirium Tremens tulip...

A - Pours a dark cola brown, with a small 1/2 finger of light brown head.

S - Aromas of coffee, and some slight bourbon and tabacco notes.

T/M - This brew has some weird dark fruity tannins that evolve into a bourbon coffee stout. Medium mouthfee, with average carbonation with almost no alcohol burn

O - This one deson't really hit the notes that I look for in a bourbon barrel stout. It's a good beer, not great. I probably would not purchase this one again.

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Photo of aasher
3.32/5  rDev -19.2%
look: 3 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 3.5 | feel: 3 | overall: 3

This bottle was courtesy of mystikyle, thanks Kyle!

This beer pours a medium bodied dark cola brown with only a slight lacing around my snifter. The nose is dark sweet malt, slight coffee, and a good amount of bourbon barrel with plenty of vanilla sweetness. There definitely isn't as much coffee as I anticipated. The flavors are of sweet dark malts, cola, vanilla, and light bourbon. There is little to no coffee and it finishes pretty watery. It's also a little over carbonated. It drinks medium in body and leaves a slight bourbon barrel vanilla in the after taste. I don't like how light this is, like their bourbon barrel stout. It's odd and over carbonated. Also, where's the coffee? I consider this beer to be pretty average and wouldn't buy it if I saw it. The mouthfeel is just too light and I really wish it at least looked like a stout.

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Peruvian Morning from Central Waters Brewing Co.
92 out of 100 based on 450 ratings.