Went to Italy on vacation, had epiphany on German beer

Discussion in 'Germany' started by boddhitree, Aug 3, 2012.

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  1. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,206) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Garrett Oliver said as much in the Brewmaster's Table, too. He mentions that you might get a fair number of "me too" pilsners, but finding a full-on bad beer is pretty unusual. My only experiences with bad German beers were related to questionably clean/cleared draft lines. We got the first beers of the day (a Ludwig Dunkel and Tegernsee Spezial) at the Hirschgarten a few years ago and both tasted pretty rough, yet I know both to be pretty good in every other instance. I can't imagine those Beck's Gold bottles in the train station vending machines are aging very well either.
    I think to find something full-on bad, you either have to hate a certain style or maybe you happened upon a bottle of Desperados, which I think is Dutch anyway.
     
  2. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I have only had one infected beer in Germany, but was well aware of what I was getting myself into when I bought a case (about 1/3 of the case went bad within a couple of weeks. The beer: Barnikel Rauchbier from Herrnsdorf (those of you who have been will perhaps understand what I'm talking about :wink: )
     
  3. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Where is Stahlsturm? We seriously need a German’s opinion on whether German breweries can make “bad” beer. Perhaps he could even top the post he made before (copied below):

    “According to the German Wikipedia article (that particular part is missing from the English version oddly enough...) the Löwenbräu Brewery in München produces Spaten, Franziskaner, Löwenbräu and Beck's. According to the German article on Spaten there is no more active Spaten brewery.

    They brew all the beers in the same kettle at Löwenbräu and fill the swill at the Spaten facility. It's all the same crap and I don't understand why there's so much attention being paid to this interchangable piss.

    And yes, I'm increasingly getting irritated about this. Associating this piss with Bayern is as insulting and ignorant to me as associating all of the US with Budwiser would be to you....”

    Prost!
     
  4. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I, too, would welcome his input since I know that, as an American, people seriously value my opinion on whether American (craft) breweries can make "bad" beer. :wink:

    Either way, I seriously doubt he'd rank any beer lower than Oettinger. And the (admittedly strange) fact is that, when I've had it fresh, I cannot make a claim that it is "bad" (i.e. poorly crafted or made from inferior ingredients). I suspect Stahl's main gripe with Munich mass-produced beers is that people mistakenly think this is what all BAVARIAN beer is like -- when in reality these are the exceptions and not at all the rules.
     
  5. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,206) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Bad beer probably comes down to the eye of the beholder in this case. I don't know if I have a good example that everyone will understand. The closest thing I can think of would be someone thinking Chi-Chi's is good Mexican food based upon what's typically available in Germany. I'm sure it kicks ass compared with Sausalito's and the like, but comparatively...not so much.
     
  6. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Scott, you know that I always value your opinion. You are the man with the “exceptional tastes”!:slight_smile:

    Cheers!
     
  7. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    If you'd ever had Oettinger, you might take back that claim! :slight_smile:
     
  8. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Matthias Trum not German enough for ya? :wink:
     
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  9. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I think you made it clear in your prior posts that Oettinger is not among you list of favorites (i.e., exceptional beers). Since I don’t have exceptional tastes I actually admire that you are willing to get out of your ‘comfort zone’. It is clear to me that you think that Oettinger is a beer that isn’t bad.

    So, permit me to tell a story. I was recently in Lake Placid, NY with my wife and a bunch of friends cross country skiing. My wife and I stopped at a Rite Aid to pick up some stuff. In the Rite Aid there is a beer in multiple refrigerators. While my wife pick up the needed items I briskly went to see what beer was available (the supply of homebrewed beers I brought was getting low). I spied a twelve pack of Genny Bock beer (in cans). My wife sees me take it out and immediately asked: “Why are you buying that?’ What she was really asking was: Why are you buying that crap?” I replied: “I want to try it”. She asked me several more times over the course of 2-3 minutes: “Why are you buying that (crap)?” I was actually getting a little bit irritated. I paid $6.99 for twelve beers; what a deal!! So, we went back to the house we rented. I changed into my swim trunks and took my twelve pack to the hot tub. Now, I will readily admit that Genny Bock is not a craft beer but it sure was an enjoyable beer to drink while soaking in the hot tub after an exhausting day of cross country skiing (in 7°F conditions). I would guess that Genny Bock is ‘similar’ to Oettinger in that there is nothing exceptional about the beer but it is my now means “bad”. I would go so far as to say that if somebody is exhausted from cross country skiing and soaking in a hot tub that Genny Bock is the perfect beer for that exact situation.

    Cheers!

    P.S. Several other of the people in the hot tub tried the Genny Bock and they enjoyed drinking it. My wife did not drink a single Genny Bock (she only drank my homebrewed beers). My wife is such a beer snob!:wink:
     
  10. PancakeMcWaffles

    PancakeMcWaffles Initiate (0) Jun 15, 2012 Germany

    Did you have the first beer for YOU for that day, or the first beer draught on that day?
    The first beer of the day is usually called the "Nachtwächter" in germany :grinning:(The beer that stays in the lines over night) (Nachtwächter = night watchman/guard)... Depeding on the beer they can be interesting to taste, sometimes it's really interesting to see how a beer tastes filtered if it is tapped unfiltered (the overnight stay in the tap lines can turn an unfiltered one really clear!). But on most beers the Nachtwächter is quite disgusting :rolling_eyes:

    And yeah, germans don't know how to handle beer bottles, a vending machine is probably one of the worst ways to store (and sell) beer...

    Cheers!
     
  11. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    While not personally knowing Matthias Trum I am sure that he is plenty German. What Matthias lacks (I presume) is the singular wit that Stahlsturm possesses. I wanna hear from Stahlsturm!

    Cheers!
     
  12. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Genny Bock is actually a great example/correlate, IMO. By no means a particularly good representative of what the bock style can be (on either side of the pond), but for what it is (a bit of a relic...kind of like McSorley's), it is not at all "bad."

    p.s. I also love to cross country ski, and, for what it's worth, Genny Bock makes a good post-croquet beer as well.
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    “Genny Bock makes a good post-croquet beer as well.”

    I have a response in mind for that but it is not politically correct.:wink:

    Cheers!
     
  14. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Thought you'd like that. Trying to live up to the "exceptional" reputation I (you?) have created.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society


    And you are there in spades!

    My advice would have been:

    1. A man should never play croquet (even the guys on Downton Abbey don’t play croquet)
    2. If a man does play croquet, he should never make mention of it

    Cheers!
     
  16. Domingo

    Domingo Grand Pooh-Bah (4,206) Apr 23, 2005 Colorado
    Pooh-Bah Society

    It was their first draft pours period, so I suppose we got the "Nachtwächter." We showed up pretty early and it was overcast, so they were debating on whether to open. They did briefly and then shut things down not long afterward. I don't think the food vendors ever even opened at all.
    Anyway, the Ludwig Dunkel tasted like someone had mixed it with cider and the Tegernsee Spezial was a diacetyl butter bomb. I'd had both of those at least 2-3 times and while neither are necessarily my absolute favorites, they're much better than that.
    They ended up shutting down shop and we weren't planning on ordering more after that, so that was that.
    Luckily the Augustiner Keller was open in spite of rainfall and Edelstoff made it all better.
     
  17. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Spade in German = Spaten.

    Prost!
     
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  18. Stahlsturm

    Stahlsturm Initiate (0) Mar 21, 2005 Germany
    In Memoriam

    I'm not a German, I'm a Bavarian. There's a rather significant difference here.

    As for the question on topic, I think it is a matter of perspective. There are German beers I would consider rather poor but when you apply a low standard they become reasonable. I guess reasonable is as bad as most German breweries can go considering that you have had to learn your trade under the eyes of a master brewer for at least 8 YEARS. Compare that to a 9 weeks online course that people do in certain other countries after which they have the audacity to call themselves a "brewer" and you will realize that during those 8 years all examples of gross incompetence will be wed out at some point. All German craftsmen go through this and while it may be a hindrance for creativity at least it spares us to be subjected to the more horrific aspects of amateur brewing.
     
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  19. Gutes_Bier

    Gutes_Bier Maven (1,339) Jul 31, 2011 Germany

    Well now I feel compelled to go buy an Oettinger and form an opinion.
     
  20. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    That's a big investment. Might want to think long and hard on it.
     
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