Is contract brewing hurting craft beer?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Beercub, May 29, 2012.

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  1. Beercub

    Beercub Crusader (409) Jan 10, 2007 Massachusetts

    Recently had some beers that really made me wonder how much contract brewing is undermining quality beers. Here are some examples:

    Sixpoint ... originally loved their entire lineup and now i don't even recognize them ... Bengali Tiger in particular... completely lost its personality (contract brewed at Lion's brewery)

    21st Amendment - Hell or High Watermelon... used to love this stuff on an 80+ degree humid day, but had one the other day it was rife with diacetyl (undrinkable... stale movie popcorn taste)

    Kona Pale Ale - had this in Hawaii and found it exceptional. Now that it's brewed in NH (I think), the beer is nothing special at all.

    I'm sure there are plenty of other examples. Or perhaps examples where the contract brew is better. But from a quality, ingredients, and craft-passion point of view, I think contracting the brewing simply to increase volume seems to be a bad omen for craft beer.
     
  2. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado

    If the beer sucks, it sucks. There are plenty of beers that are not contract brewed that suck the big one. And I'll bet there are plenty of contract brews that are excellent.
     
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  3. smutty33

    smutty33 Pooh-Bah (2,088) Jun 12, 2009 Connecticut
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I'm not a fan of contract brewing either,I don't like the idea of a totally different brewery in a different state brewing a favorite of mine just to keep up w/ demand or whatever.I have found that the beer tastes similar,just not the same.No matter how much I like a particular beer,if its currently being contract brewed,I simply don't buy it.

    Cheers
     
  4. jlordi12

    jlordi12 Pooh-Bah (1,844) Jun 8, 2011 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I had some Kona for the first time recently (brewed in NH). Thought it was solid. Never had a problem w/ Sixpoint either, I actually love their beers.
     
  5. checktherhyme

    checktherhyme Pundit (890) Apr 8, 2008 Washington

    I dont know if it is hurting the craft beer industry as a whole, but I do think that it can give a bad reputation to a breweries beer. If I grow up loving a specific beer and the taste changes when it is contract brewed, I may never buy it again. I know that different systems give character to different beers too. I think that Boulevards Tank #7 is named that becasue they cannot get that flavor from any other tanks that they have. Something about that specific tank gives it the character that the beer has.
     
  6. jbertsch

    jbertsch Pooh-Bah (2,710) Dec 14, 2008 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Contract brewed or not, more beers on the shelf sets the quality expectations higher from a consumer standpoint, which is a good thing.

    Ideally, I prefer a brand to have a physical home with a brewery to visit and brewers to chat with who touch their beer day in and day out themselves. But it's not critical to me. And I'd be lying if I said I've never had contract-brewed beers that were damn tasty.
     
  7. olympuszymurgus

    olympuszymurgus Initiate (0) Nov 24, 2009 California

    I think contract brewing can be awesome- Brooklyn Lager, Dave's Brewfarm Select, and some Elysian brews(I here...)

    It can also be bad.

    Such is life.
     
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  8. Hanzo

    Hanzo Initiate (0) Feb 27, 2012 Virginia

    If you contracted out the brewing of a beer, wouldn't you write into that contract that the beer must taste the same? And why is the brewery allowing beer to go out that isn't up to their specifications?

    Do these beers really taste all that different? Would be interesting to do a blind side by side tasting with contracted and non contracted brews.
     
  9. HopsJunkiedotcom

    HopsJunkiedotcom Initiate (0) Dec 24, 2010 Florida

    I was wondering about the Sixpoint Resin I recently had. It was good, but not great. I felt like it might be missing something, though I love the style of can cause I'm a sucker for a pretty package. Maybe contract brewing took it down a notch? Not sure.
     
  10. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Hanzo asks some good questions: “If you contracted out the brewing of a beer, wouldn't you write into that contract that the beer must taste the same? And why is the brewery allowing beer to go out that isn't up to their specifications?”

    I can’t comment to all of the examples that the OP mentioned but I can state that I personally have tasted differences with some Sixpoint beers (those brewed at their Brooklyn location vs. at the Lion Brewery).

    I am not a lawyer or a brewery business guy but permit me to take a crack at the above questions.

    “If you contracted out the brewing of a beer, wouldn't you write into that contract that the beer must taste the same?” The brewery could certainly try and get this language into the agreement (contract) with the contract brewery. There are some issues though:

    · Maybe the contract brewery will not exactly agree to this sort of language. Then it is up to the brewery to select a different contract brewery or change this language.

    · If this language exists in a contract, how is “the same” defined? I am unaware of any unambiguous scientific tests which completely defines flavor. If taste testing is used, who is the taste tester? Who ‘reconciles’ disagreements between the contract brewery staff and the brewery with respect to subjective sensory evaluations?

    · Is the brewery (who depends on beer production from the contract brewery) really willing to sue the contract brewery over quality issues or take other actions?

    · Etc.

    “And why is the brewery allowing beer to go out that isn't up to their specifications?” Boy, that is a tough question right there. The cynical ‘answer’ is money!?! The brewer is utilizing somebody else to produce their beers. The brewery wants this product to be distributed and sold so that the brewery makes revenue. As a BA and beer consumer I would very much hope that the brewery would not permit ‘bad’ beers to come from the contract brewery and distributed to a beer store. I can tell you for a fact that unfortunately ‘bad’ beer was (is?) being produced at contract breweries and sold to customers. A very sad state of events that I am hoping has been (or will be) rectified.

    I do not want to insinuate that all contract breweries are ‘bad’. I have had some excellent craft beers that were produced at the Latrobe Brewery (former Rolling Rock brewery now owned by City Brewing Company) and at the Olde Saratoga Brewery. Contract brewing can ‘work’ (i.e., contract breweries can make quality craft beer for other craft breweries). It is up to both the Brewery (to ‘force’ the Contract Brewery to produce quality beer) and the Contract Brewery (to actually ‘do the right thing’ and produce the quality beer like the Brewery would do themselves).

    I truly hope that things get ‘rectified’ for the contract brewing of certain craft beers.

    Cheers!
     
  11. rocdoc1

    rocdoc1 Savant (1,191) Jan 13, 2006 New Mexico

    Y'all would be amazed at the percentage of your favorite Belgian beers that are contract brewed. It's not contract brewing that is to blame, it's shoddy brewing whether it's contract or not.
     
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  12. dvelcich

    dvelcich Zealot (605) Feb 6, 2008 Illinois

    I think the biggest obstacle to maintaining the taste of a contract brew would be the water. In the case of GI's 312, I'm sure the water in NY tastes different than the water in Chicago. How do you keep the beer tasting the same in that scenario?
     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    You fundamentally hit the nail on the head here: “it's shoddy brewing whether it's contract or not”

    I think the frustration of many BAs is the question of: Why was the beer from Brewery X which was so tasty and now being produced at Contract Brewery Y (for business reasons like increasing volume) so non-tasty!?!

    As BAs (knowledgeable beer consumers) we knew that Beer Z was a tasty beer and with the change in beer production location the beer we loved is no longer a lovable beer. A very, very frustrating situation!!

    Cheers!
     
  14. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    Start with distilled and add the minerals that you want.
     
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  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    “How do you keep the beer tasting the same in that scenario?” It is not extremely difficult to do that; you can alter the water chemistry to match a given standard/specification.

    Anheuser-Busch does this at each of its breweries (12 breweries in the United States and 18 in other countries). The standard for Anheuser-Busch is St. Louis water and they replicate St. Louis water at each of their brewery locations.

    Cheers!

    P.S. The one example that the OP provided of 21st Amendment - Hell or High Watermelon being rife with diacetyl is not a water problem. Diacetyl is an off-flavor from poor brewing process in this instance.
     
  16. dvelcich

    dvelcich Zealot (605) Feb 6, 2008 Illinois

    Right, but wouldn't the cost of that be substantially larger? I know I asked, but I was looking for a reasonable real world answer. I can't imagine that's what anybody actually does.
     
  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Starting with distilled water would be costly at the commercial brewing scale. Just altering the local water would be more cost effective.

    Cheers!
     
  18. scubahood

    scubahood Initiate (0) Jan 29, 2004 Massachusetts

    Despite all the advances with purifying and adding salts, metals, etc I would think that water would have a large difference from brewery to another so that might prevent the ability to get the taste 100% the same even with identical recipes.

    Edit: Looks like this has already been addressed a few minutes before haha...
     
  19. rlcoffey

    rlcoffey Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2004 Kentucky

    That works fine if you dont have to take anything out. Reverse osmosis or other filtering is probably cheaper than starting with distilled, but the idea is the same: Adjust the water to get to what you want.
     
  20. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    “Adjust the water to get to what you want.” That is exactly correct!

    I am not a fan of Anheuser-Busch beers but I must grudgingly admit that they indeed know how to make consistent products. The Budweiser made at the Newark, NJ brewery tastes exactly the same as the Budweiser made at the Los Angeles, CA brewery. Anheuser-Busch adjusts the water to match the St. Louis water (their standard). Any contract brewery could adjust their local water to match the water standard provided by their brewery customer.

    Cheers!
     
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