So, how's Beer Trading going?

Blog Discussion in 'BeerAdvocate Talk' started by Todd, Oct 29, 2012.

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  1. Pelican5

    Pelican5 Initiate (0) Feb 4, 2012 California

    Btw, thanks so much for running the site in the first place guys. I think we all just want it to be as good as it can based on our own opinions. Having an open discussion like this is by far the best way to achieve just that, a consensus of what works best. An open community, especially including moderater interaction, self regulates and ultimately benefits. Same as open source code ( im an artist and web designer :slight_smile: ). Anyways thanks again for putting in the time and effort to run an epic online beer community. There are soooo many standup BA's on this site.

    Cheers to you guys!
     
  2. gklover1

    gklover1 Initiate (0) Oct 18, 2009 Colorado

    Okay, my turn.

    Yes on 101 sticky.

    Yes on bad trader list sticky.

    Love the idea of a Beer Price Check thread, to clean up Beer Trading Help thread.

    Love only 3 trade posts a week.

    Instead of bringing back comments in ISO, how about a Like/Dislike option (instead of just Likes)?

    The last two above promote community. People who spend time on BA get to know each other/build relationships. If a person (noob or otherwise) is looking at an ISO, and it has a ton of dislikes, or most of the dislikes are from veterans (or both) they would think twice. They might even reach out to the folks disliking it for an opinion why. (Whoah, say what? That sounds like building relationships!!!) like I did back when I was a noob, if they ACTUALLY care about the community, they will start researching and learning who others are.

    If the # of ISOs is limited again, well, I get most of my trades done directly w/o an ISO. This obviously happens more often with relationships. But you have to build up to that. When I first came in, there were ISO limits. This forced me to pick and choose my ISOs more carefully, and do more research to make that happen. In addition, with all the garbage offers now, if you combine limits and dislikes, this will counteract said garbage.

    Hope that is helpful.
     
    johnyb likes this.
  3. Nightfall

    Nightfall Initiate (0) Aug 16, 2006 Greece

    Of course #1,2 are a great addition.

    My thoughts on "Replies at ISO:FT" :

    Replies can usually be very helpful, as long as there is some self control, which unfortunately as we have seen in the past is not always the case. Moderating such a busy forum is obviously a pain the a**, constant bumping is also an unwanted effect which also requires moderation. Sometime a bump could be in order, if for example there is an ISO:FT for B.A Moby Dick Ale aged with unicorn tear drops and fresh Edelweiss stems in Crystal Magnum Bottle #1 of 11, during rush hour 10-15 topics per hour are being posted in the ISO:FT forum, many are local 6pack for local 6pack, or something that can be completed within the hour, then the Moby Dick is lost in page 3-4, etc without being resolved, and the OP wants to make a revised offer.

    Not allowing replies solves the moderation , the unwanted bumping, the smartassing/threadshitting problems but other problems occur. No additional helpful info can be added, no revised offer,no indication if the trade is completed, the BM increase a lot on some occasions (f.ex instead of writing on a post thanks for all the offers, this one is closed, you have to send a BM to anybody who sent one if you don't want to appear a total as***, or you keep getting BMd even after it is closed).

    So far it is a 50-50 situation both in pros/cons and member opinions. A good solution could be to keep it a "no reply" forum BUT allow the OP to change the title and add: [Completed] (and the Completed threads are removed 1-2 times per day) or allow the OP to delete the thread himself once it is completed. That way only open ISO:FT will remain and no bumping will be needed. An extra plus would be to allow the OP one post or edit after 1 day for example for a revised offer. All of the above of course if the solution can be done using existing forum settings and no extra heavy core programming is required.

    Just my 2cts.

    Cheers,

    Alex
     
  4. osubeerkind

    osubeerkind Initiate (0) Jan 12, 2009 Ohio

    Todd,

    Agreed on #1 and #2

    Suggestion for #3 - A
    The following is how a forum I used to frequent was run. (though I suspect it will be a lot of programing)

    They had comments on ISO/FT forum, but this was sorted by original post date, instead of most recent comment.

    Posters could only start a thread in that forum 2 or 3 times a week.

    There was also a "bump button". This would be a button available to the original poster on their original post. Every 24 hrs the OP could click this button and it would move their post back to the top of the forum.

    Lastly, they also had a system where you could pay a little money for their post to be "stuck" at the top of the forum for X number of days.

    Suggestion for #3 - B
    A more simple solution to the commenting vs not commenting is to allow it up to the OP. Have a box that he could check when making his original post. If he doesn't want commenting then the site will automatically not allow comments on his thread. Though using this I would also be in favor of the sorting by original post date instead of most recent comment date.

    Again, I think these may be a little more in depth compared to what you are looking for.
     
    dvelcich likes this.
  5. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Crazy idea that I understand may be difficult to implement, but seems more or less perfect for everybody:

    The owner of each ISO/FT post gets to moderate their own post and also decide whether or not to allow replies. (Default is to allow) If threadshitting arises, they have the ability to delete comments, and even block the poster from that thread. Or just lock it up for everyone if they don't want to deal with it.
     
  6. Spider889

    Spider889 Pooh-Bah (1,921) Mar 24, 2010 Ohio
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Your sarcasm is only funny since you fail to get my point.

    Asking for Younger is obviously a newbie mistake. It's never correct to ask for it but just as the new guy shoots for the moon by asking for Blabaer, he does so out of ignorance. Asking for a rare DONG release is also due to ignorance. In this case there's no difference.

    If you think belittling a new member is appropriate here just say so, you don't have to try to belittle an existing one to make your case...
     
    domtronzero likes this.
  7. JulianB

    JulianB Initiate (0) Feb 1, 2012 South Carolina

    I've been registered for a little while, been lurking even longer than that, and I still haven't started trading through the mail, although I've done some in-person trades. Part of that is not yet being willing to commit to the expense/process of shipping, part of that is building up a cellar with some trading ammo, but a big part is that I still feel like I'm getting a suitable base of information and knowledge before I jump in. Reading old comments, both in the ISO/FT forum and in the General/Help forum, has been a big part of that. I'm sure that most of the threadshitting comments have been deleted which is why I don't see them, but a lot of the comments I've read on old ISO/FT posts have been helpful to me in the learning process. They help create a "marketplace of ideas" that allows for the free flow of information.
     
  8. kscaldef

    kscaldef Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2010 Oregon

    No, no, no.

    Completed trades are exactly what we do need a permanent record of, not hundreds of lopsided, never-gonna-happen offers that give people skewed ideas of what is reasonable. A filtering mechanism makes sense for browsing and searching, but we absolutely shouldn't delete completed trades.
     
  9. mikecharley

    mikecharley Savant (1,140) Nov 6, 2008 Pennsylvania
    Trader

    How about making it so that the op can check off a box marking the trade "completed". On the ISO main page, these threads would be marked with a green checkmark, so that you don't need to go into each thread to see if it got done or not. You could just scroll down, and get a relatively good idea on trade values.
     
  10. jjheinrichs

    jjheinrichs Initiate (0) Apr 13, 2010 Wisconsin
    Deactivated

    Sorry, I guess that post should have warranted some explanation.
     
    domtronzero likes this.
  11. gklover1

    gklover1 Initiate (0) Oct 18, 2009 Colorado

    One minor problem...what if the trade was modified. How is that to be reflected??
     
  12. daryk77

    daryk77 Initiate (0) Jun 16, 2005 District of Columbia

    And I would say 9 times out of 10 the trade is modified from the original in some way.
     
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  13. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Mar 31, 2006 Tennessee

    Some good ideas ( I am commenting directly on your point in part B. and another person in part A)
    but in reality...

    If I am one of the problem BAs ( new and old ) which is making this discussion necessary, I am going to:

    A. not allow any comments in my ISO:FT threads if that is an option.
    Why?
    I do not want to hear that my trade may be way off because even though I know it, there is a CHANCE.
    I do not want uneducated people seeing others comment that the trade may be way off ( same reasoning ).
    I have been a bad trader and someone might warn others about me in my thread.
    I am new, do not know better but am thin skinned and cannot filter out BS for the nugget of knowledge.
    there are many other reasons...

    B. mark the trade as complete even if it does not get completed if that is an option.
    Why?
    So the next day when I post my 2nd bottle of Dark Lord ( I have 16 more bottles because I paid people to come with me ) those who do not know any better will only have a frame of reference that similar trades happened and may make a deal they should not be making.

    BA looking to get their feet wet in the trading forum:
    Gee... Dark Lord ( for example ) must be really limited if it has traded 5 times for wale X...
    I guess lll trade my wale X for it.

    When in reality dark lord is ransomed for gold when in reality they make so much of it is might as well be a limited shelf beer and the trades never happened.

    I hate that there are people out there like that, but I bet most BAs that frequent the ISO:FT forums can name at least 5 off the top of their heads. ( not just new BAs either )

    AND YES, I WANT COMMENTS BACK FOR ENTERTAINMENT VALUE AS WELL AS EDUCATIONAL VALUE.
     
    domtronzero likes this.
  14. Etan

    Etan Initiate (0) Jul 11, 2011 Wisconsin

    Whoa there, I wasn't belittling anyone...the joke was simply that what Dom said ("Probably shouldn't be asking for Younger or Blabaer in your first (30+) trade posts.") could imply to a noob reading it that you can get Younger (eventually), even though he was simply saying that you need experience to know what you can and can't get. Just a joke about the syntax, not about the argument or you or anything else.
     
    domtronzero likes this.
  15. barleywinefiend

    barleywinefiend Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2007 Washington
    Deactivated

    Leave No. 3 as is. The last thing I want is someone threadshitting and jacking for my personal ISO. If I wanted a BA's opinion or reply to my thread it would read "ISO: Need your opinion for a trade". Too many people put in their two cents worth when it's not wanted, warranted or simply unbased/incorrect. If you don't agree, shut your hole, move on and let the ISO be.
     
  16. barleywinefiend

    barleywinefiend Initiate (0) Nov 22, 2007 Washington
    Deactivated

    Said douchebag public posts can be undermining your public ISO, perhaps because he is ignorant, a douche, or whatever. At least when I get a ridiculous beermail I can delete it and not have someones blabbering attached to my post.
     
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  17. Agold

    Agold Maven (1,251) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    So I say person x is a bad trader or y beer is a shelf beer or z beer is infected and the OP deletes my comment? Simple is best. Allow comments. Add a community mod. Done.
     
    shyhenry likes this.
  18. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    Those examples are treading the line of threadshitting anyway, so you would get deleted by the mod regardless. (Especially calling something a "shelf beer")
     
  19. Agold

    Agold Maven (1,251) Mar 13, 2010 Pennsylvania

    Seriously? None of those comments are threadshitting. If im trading away an 09 abyss what is wrong with warning people about an infection. What if jojo posts an ISO? What if I heard of Pliny and didn't know anything about trading and was offering limited stuff for it? Wouldn't it be nice if some kind BA could come in and give me and the rest of the community info. Or if I was offering a local obscure but on the shelf impy stout and looking for "similar limited stouts" wouldn't it be nice if someone would chime in and let everyone know it's a shelf beer. And what's the harm to anyone? If your ISO is solid you get it done anyway.
     
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  20. cbeer88

    cbeer88 Initiate (0) Sep 5, 2007 Massachusetts

    The entire concept of "shelf beer" serves no beneficial purpose, and it's not a term that should even exist, for numerous reasons. But dropping it on somebody else's ISO/FT? That is the textbook definition of threadshitting. I've traded brewery releases for shelf beers and shelf beers for brewery releases - both more times than I can count. It's nobody's place to chime in and say "that's a shelf beer", as if that term holds any weight towards anything relevant...

    The infected thing is more of a gray area. When accurate it is fine. But I've seen it inaccurately used more often than not. People love to say things like "I had a bottle of this recently and it is over the hill". Or, "That thing is infected - be careful" when in reality it has 2 known bad bottles out of 20,000.

    A known bad trader posting in the ISO/FT is extremely rare, and if it happens, it should be brought to the Bros attention pronto.
     
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