What are your feelings on the amount of readily accesible craft lagers vs ales?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Providence, Jan 17, 2013.

Tags:
?

What are your feelings on the amount of readily accesible craft lagers vs ales?

  1. I wish there were no craft lagers! All ales, all the time!

    3.4%
  2. I am fine with the amount of lagers I have access to.

    33.9%
  3. I wish there were more lagers available, but I am still mainly an ale girl/guy

    46.0%
  4. I wish it was an even 50/50 split between ales and lagers

    14.9%
  5. I wish lagers dominated and ales just had a little section at the end of the aisle

    1.7%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    He has a limited idea of what a lager is. A trip to Franconia would fix that. Maybe.

    I shake my head when I read about lagers vs. ale on these forums. The only difference is the yeast. You can make an assertive lager if you want, and don't care so much for style.

    Drinking a youngish Landbier I made. It is starting to lager out, but did have a lot of Kellerbier things going for it. For every guy who says they think lagers all taste the same, have you had a Kellerbier, or a Rauchbier, or a Landbier?
     
    herrburgess and acevenom like this.
  2. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Here he comes to save the day! You know that CAP-man is on the way.

    Yup, time for me to pontificate once again:

    So, believe it or not, before prohibition American breweries made tasty lagers. At that time they did not call them Classic American Pilsners. They were just American lagers.

    A Classic American Pilsner is an easy beer to make: I homebrew them a lot. The BJCP style guidelines provide all the information you need.
    In a nutshell:

    · Grain: 80% 6 row malts, 20% corn
    · Hops:

    - For Bittering: Cluster hops 25-40 IBUs (I prefer 40 IBUs)
    - For Flavor: Medium to high hop flavor from noble hops
    - For Aroma: Medium to high hop aroma from noble hops
    · Lager yeast

    A well-made genuine CAP beer is a very enjoyable beer to drink. Any of the BMC breweries or Regional Breweries (e,g., Genesee, etc.) could very easily make CAP beers. All they need to do is back off the amount of adjunct (corn) they use in their regular AAL beers and up their hopping rates (bittering, flavor and aroma hop additions).

    Cheers!
     
  3. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,628) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    This is madness. When you take two totally different ales like DFH 120 Min and Sam Smith Taddy Porter, then sure, it's a big gap. But if you took the extremes of each of the lager spectrum you'd have a similar gap. Ales can fall victim to the "they all taste the same" line of thinking as well. Pale Ale, EIPA, slightly hopped up ESB, West Coast Amber...those beers will all taste very similar.
     
  4. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    That guy should do a tasting of a Bud light. Jever Pils, a Sclenkerla Maerzen, and a Doppelbock and then tell me if they taste the same. Put a Kellerbier, a Landbier, and Helles in there for extra credit.
     
  5. Todd

    Todd Founder (13,254) Aug 23, 1996 Finland
    Staff Super Mod Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Definitely. Unfortunately many within the US craft beer community have done a great job of giving lagers a bad name over the last decade or so as a result of their disdain for a handful of large brewers. More quality lagers (and diversity) would help remove the stigma with those who don't fully understand what they are and can be.
     
    Providence likes this.
  6. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Agreed. There is such an intense "anxiety of influence" at work in the craft beer community when it comes to traditional lagers that anything that remotely resembles "fizzy yellow stuff" is frequently dismissed out of hand -- and even carried to the extremes where entire U.S. craft beer marketing campaigns are based on this concept.
     
    Providence likes this.
  7. Biffster

    Biffster Initiate (0) Mar 29, 2004 Michigan

    A few disconnected musings...

    As has been noted numerous times, the time and expense makes it difficult for brewers. But there are some out there and I do like them for the most part. GLB Edmund Fitzgerald, Brooklyn Lager, et all. - great go to beers. I would agree with the quality issue though. With a few exceptions, lagers should be not only clean, but subtle as well - not boring, but subtle. I myself have kind of had it with the Imperial Pils thing. Its not that it cant be good, but most seem to be nothing more than stunt brewing with a different yeast.

    When I go to a new brewery, I always try their blonde and any lager they have. If you want to find out if the brewer knows what they are doing, that is how to find out.

    One outstanding exception to the ales domination thing in my area is Wolverine State Brewing Co in Ann Arbor. Only a few years old, this micro actually specializes in lagers. There are always 8-12 beers on tap and most are lagers. And, what's more important, damned good ones to boot.

    I get why people like Ales, and I certainly do as much as anyone. But I do have a special place in my heart for lagers. I admire the skill of the brewer, and I love the clean character. Assertive or mild, a lager is all about the flavor of the ingredients - malt, hops and water.

    My CSB lager story...

    I spent some time in Bavaria and Austria. Amazing. I had Kellerbier freshly tapped from a wooden cask in Munich, masskrugs of helles and dunkel in the Hofbrauhaus, tried a microbrewery in Salzberg, and enjoyed wandering the altstadt of Graz and watching the sun set over the fortress while enjoying helles. But, to tell the truth, by my last night there, I was lagered out. I was wandering around the altstadt for a night cap (a place literally right out of the movies, with winding cobblestone streets shiny from the mist, low arches, houses and buildings built out over the streets) and found, of all things, a little expat British Pub, no sign or anything, just off one of these streets. Quite literally the best Irish Stout I have EVER had. It was probably nothing special (Beamish or Murphys - I cant remember which). But at that point, my palate was SCREAMING for some bite and intensity. I can honestly say I will never forget that beer.

    So, viva la difference, I guess...
     
  8. jtg5678

    jtg5678 Zealot (572) Nov 27, 2012 Illinois
    Trader

    I yearn for lagers because much of the ale market is so homogenized. There is so little difference from beer to beer nowadays that we as consumers could use more variety of styles.
     
    Providence likes this.
  9. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,628) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    It's interesting that so many folks cite the cost of lagering as a reason why more brewers don't do it. I say that it's interesting not because I don't think it's true, but because the vast majority of beer drinkers prefer lagers. Of course, most prefer lousy lagers. Nevertheless, the affinity for lager is there amongst humans the world over. I would imagine Brooklyn Lager and Sam Adams Boston Lager are big sellers not just because they get the beer geek at a wedding with no other options, but because they get the ocassioanl BMC guy to request a pint, maybe even another.

    What I am saying is this: Yes, it costs more to lager, but if you can pull one off that entices the BMC group then you'll make the money back and then some. I know, I know, easier said than done......
     
  10. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Pooh-Bah (2,611) Jun 8, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    re-Wolverine.
    Oliver and company have been knocking some out of the park. I hear the Czech Pils that went on recently is outstanding. Not an easy beer for them to brew.

    When I was working in Germany, the wife was craving a hoppy American beer. Brought back to Germany some Alpha King when in the states on a business trip. She said it was one dimensional and could hardly finish it. Now she is happy when we can drink homebrewed Pilsners on the deck in the summer. Grass is greener, no?
     
    Providence likes this.
  11. herrburgess

    herrburgess Grand Pooh-Bah (3,053) Nov 4, 2009 South Carolina
    Pooh-Bah Society

    I used to crave U.S. C-hop beers, too. Of course I also used to crave Sweet Sixteen donuts...not sure what, if anything, this means.
     
  12. ESHBG

    ESHBG Pooh-Bah (2,099) Jul 30, 2011 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Ha ha wow, that sure didn't take long! I think some of you may have missed what I was getting at, and maybe I worded it poorly? Again, though, it is important to note that I am a big Lager/Pils fan and have had many (I will gladly bore you with a list if you'd like, I do drink Lagers regularly, and making assumptions like I just don't know my stuff is silly and far from the truth). My palate may have developed differently than yours but do a quick search, and you will see that many others share the same feelings as well. Does that mean Lagers are inferior to Ales? That they don't deserve to exist? That they aren't flavorful? That I like Lagers any less? Absolutely not! But TO ME, a Lager of one type now tastes very similar to a Lager of another type 90% of the time, and I just don't get the same results with Ales.

    He pretty much nailed exactly what I was getting at:

     
  13. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    “I used to crave U.S. C-hop beers, too. Of course I also used to crave Sweet Sixteen donuts …”

    Hmmm, nothing fancy or poetic there. Disappointed!!:wink:

    Cheers!
     
  14. MammaGoose

    MammaGoose Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Wyoming

    I'm definitely more drawn to ales than lagers. But I don't think that's necessarily because I dislike lagers, but I unfortunately associate them with weak, mass-produced, boring, light, watery beers. Which certainly doesn't have to be the case. I've tried a few lagers that were genuinely interesting. Smoked lagers, dark lagers, amber lagers, or even just a very well done craft American lager. It's definitely a subtler set of flavors, but I think that can be interesting.

    At the liquor store or a bar, I'm almost guaranteed to choose nearly any ale over a lager. The only exception being if it's really hot out and I'm going to be outside (even then I'd likely grab a hoppy pale or IPA). But again, I don't think that's a fault of lagers nor even my own preference. It's more likely a lack of education and appreciation. I haven't tried enough lagers, I don't have enough variety of lagers available to me, and I have probably passed up some great beers I could have tried because my eyes passed over a lager in search of an ale.

    I do have my first homebrewed pilsner fermenting in the fridge though...about two more weeks...
     
    herrburgess and Providence like this.
  15. loafinaround

    loafinaround Initiate (0) Jul 16, 2011 New York

    So I grew-up in a german home... good lagers were always available. Then in my early 30's, I drank my first ale. Very tasty... Then I started going darker... and darker.
    Lagers are a very easy entry point to craft beer... But, if you look at some of the most popular flavor profiles in food/beverages.... coffee / chocolate / citrus / various spices, lagers can't really provide that.
    While lagers are ideal on a hot day, I think as a beer drinker explores more, their preferred beer profile often will match their favorite foods... which more often than not, will mean more stouts and ales being purchased.
     
  16. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,628) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    I also find it interesting that people keep talking about how they can enjoy a lager on a hot day, but that's the end of their relationship with lagers. Seems like that is fallout from BMC marketing campaigns more than anything else, especially considering that lagers were born in cold weather and consumed in mass amounts by cold-weather folk.
     
  17. MammaGoose

    MammaGoose Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Wyoming

    And that's certainly an interesting point. I'm sure there's an affected part of my psyche that associates hot summer days with a refreshing bottle of Bud Light splashing into ice water on a billboard or something. But, at the same time, I'm simply drawn to lighter crisper beers, lagers or ales, in hotter weather and darker fuller-bodied beers in colder months. I go between IPA's/pale ales/occasional lagers in the summer to stouts/porters/browns in the winter. Hoppy and crisp and light in the summer, dark and malty and full-bodied in the winter. I don't want to drink lemonade in December, and I don't want to drink hot chocolate in the summer. Lagers are kind of my personal lemonade of beers.
     
  18. msween21

    msween21 Initiate (0) Jan 2, 2013 Massachusetts

    IPA's seem like by far the most popular style of beer among craft beer drinkers so it would makes sense that there are more Ale's out there than lagers. But having Jack's Abby around is a reminder that lagers can be pretty damn good too. I'm happy I live where I can get fresh Jack's Abby, but certainly wouldn't mind if there were more breweries out there like them.
     
  19. Providence

    Providence Pooh-Bah (2,628) Feb 24, 2010 Rhode Island
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Totally understand, and I hope I didn't make it seem as if my previous comment singled you out exclusively. Many have been saying similar things. I guess it's the "I'm simply drawn to lighter crisper lagers in the summer" that I am interested in. What is this "simply drawn" tha so many have? Why is it that you, and me as well for that matter, are drawn in such a way? You liken the desires to that of hot chocolate vs. lemonade, which I find a very ironic connection to make. I say ironic becuse both of those two drinks are marketed (like the lagers) for a specific situation. You never see commercials with actors, read books with characters, or see movies with people that are drinking hot chocolate at a 4th of July party, right? Of course not. But, we all know plenty of people who drink hot coffee in the summer and people who drink cold soda in the winter. We have been taught that those beverages can be enjoyed all year long, much as we have been taught that lemonade and hot chocolate are best enjoyed in their respective seasons AND, unfortunately I must say, much as we have also been taught that lagers are for warm weather.

    Interesting stuff. I smell a PhD thesis brewing (pun intended).
     
    MammaGoose likes this.
  20. MammaGoose

    MammaGoose Initiate (0) Jan 10, 2013 Wyoming

    First of all, I would gladly volunteer as a test subject for the thesis. You can give me lagers and stouts year round and assess my enjoyment of each during various weather conditions.

    I think part of it definitely is advertising and conditioning. But I thing it can go even broader than lager vs stout and lemonade vs hot chocolate. Fresh fruit/salad/grilling are summer foods while stews/casseroles/heavy dishes are winter foods. I have absolutely no desire to eat a heavy creamy casserole in the summer months. I want light and fresh foods when it's hot out. In the winter, I want hearty and savory and satisfying. I feel like those same descriptors could be applied to our beer (and other beverage) preferences. In hot weather, I want light, refreshing, crisp, fresh, etc. In the cold I'm drawn to hearty, filling, strong, full-bodied, etc. After I mow the lawn or around the campfire after a day of hiking, I want something crisp and refreshing. While I absolutely love the stoutest of stouts, a stout probably isn't what I'd reach for in this situation. And likewise, after a day of icefishing or skiing or a cozy snowy afternoon, I want something dark and hearty. Like, a porter or stout.

    To some extent, and based on several variables, preference is variable based on environment. Whether it be societal conditioning or a mental or physiological reaction to different flavors and mouthfeels.
     
    Providence and Crusader like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.