100% Brett A&C fermentation beer

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by vobr0002, Apr 19, 2012.

  1. vobr0002

    vobr0002 Savant (255) Minnesota May 25, 2011

    I have a beer thats been fermenting for about 5 weeks in primary with brett A&C. Its been coming along well but I want it to develop a little bit of the lactic acid, vinegar, sour taste without using bugs. Ive heard that oxygen can cause that with brett, but i am fermenting in a carboy with an airlock. So I'm wondering if when I transfer to secondary I should aerate a little or if that would be too much oxygen. I have also heard about a furniture spindle in the top to allow a little bit of air flow, but Im not sure if I remember right... Any thoughts would be appreciated, its my first all brett beer by the way.
     
  2. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    Brett doesnt really produce much in the way of acid, even with exposure to oxygen. A & C are probably the lowest producers of all the strains with WY Brett L the most productive. Chad Yakobson also has shown that the WL brett C most likely has a strain of lacto in the vial as well, not very much but its there.

    Should you oxygenate you open yourself up to things like ethyl acetate (nail polish flavor/aroma) that can ruin a beer very quickly. Trust me its a terrible thing.......Ive learned the hard way

    IF you want a bit of tartness you could add some acid, I prefer to use citric, as when Ive added lactic acid it comes across slightly metallic and very one dimensional. OR you could add a very sour fruit to get your acidity in the beer, rhubarb comes to mind and is something Ive used for that very purpose in the past. It adds essentially no flavor but lots of acidity.
     
  3. I have a terrible story that ended well.

    I brewed an all brett beer that I let sit on cherries for two months. I went to bottle it in champagne bottles that I had bought a special crown for. I get all the beer in the bottle only to find that I can not get the crowns to fir correctly.I had to pour all the beer back out of the bottles into the bottling bucket, clean 12 oz bottles, and then re-bottle all the beer. It was a huge nightmare and I was sure the beer was ruined.

    Two months latter I open one of them, and to my surprise it was awesome. It had gone from almost no sour to nice a tart. I am not sure if it was the extra time or all the aeration from pouring the beer into and out of bottles. But what ever it was it worked wonders for the beer. So I would go ahead and try adding a little bit of oxygen to the beer if I was you. I have not gotten another chance to brew a brett beer, but next time I do I am going to add oxygen to it before it goes into the secondary to see what effect it has on the beer. Hopefully I will be able to replicate my blunder.
     
  4. jamescain

    jamescain Advocate (660) Texas Jul 14, 2009

    I'll actually be brewing a 100% Brett-C beer next weekend. My plan for adding acidity is to use some Acidulated malt.
     
  5. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    What type of brett had you used?
     
  6. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    Acid malt doesnt really add much acidity, even in fairly high percentages, it will make the wort more acidic every so slightly which is good for brett though
     
  7. jamescain

    jamescain Advocate (660) Texas Jul 14, 2009

    That's what I was concerned about, I was thinking something pretty close to 20% acid malt, but then again I'm not really going for high acidity.
     
  8. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    it will really only lend a very subtle tartness if anything. That weyermann lists using it for a b weiss for souring at 8% is a joke
     
  9. vobr0002

    vobr0002 Savant (255) Minnesota May 25, 2011

    How much citric acid did you use?
     
  10. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    You gotta do it to taste, its a very small amount, and you shouldnt notice the acidity in the beer
     
  11. vobr0002

    vobr0002 Savant (255) Minnesota May 25, 2011

    Did you pour the beer back in as gentle as possible or did you do it fairly quickly?
     
  12. vobr0002

    vobr0002 Savant (255) Minnesota May 25, 2011

    So a 4oz bottle would be plenty?
     
  13. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    Take a small sample of the finished beer (~5-6oz) measure the volume and add CITRIC acid, not lactic, again measure the amount you add so that you can scale it to your whole beer. And remember less is always better on the big batch, so its good to add less than you think you need

    Citric acid is usually granular like white sugar, so if you get it in a liquid form you most likely have lactic acid, which IMO tends to be very one dimensional and metallic tasting if added to a beer, so I hesitate to ever use it
     
  14. vobr0002

    vobr0002 Savant (255) Minnesota May 25, 2011

    Got ya. I was looking at a picture of it online and assumed it was a liquid. Now that I read your post, I looked and realized it is powder. Good to know though. Never used either one, but I haven't heard too many good things about Lactic acid.
     
  15. At that point I was just pouring everything back in with little care about oxidation. I kind of figured it was ruined at that point.
     
  16. Back on this thread. I am considering pitching a vile of WL brett C into the beer I am brewing tonight for primary fermentation.

    Trouble is, I didn't get around to making a starter. I'll be brewing up a 4 gal batch of 1.042 80%pills/ 6%SpecialB/ 6%Oats/ 6%caravienne.

    How will 1 vial handle this?
     
  17. jamescain

    jamescain Advocate (660) Texas Jul 14, 2009

    Brett also has a hard time fully attenuating a beer on its own unless you make a starter. If you only have one vile (white labs I assume) it probably wont be able to fully attenuate. The WL vials have a lower cell count then their sacc yeast because they say people generally use them for secondary fermentation. I would pitch it with regular sacc yeast at the same time.
     
  18. Thanks!

    To be little more specific... I was thinking I could pitch the vial tonight, then pitch another once it arrive via mail order in a couple of days, OR more likely I'll pick up a pack of WY3711 to throw on top of it to finish the fermentation.

    If I do the Brett/ Saison combo will the saison just "eat up" all the fruity flavors created by the Brett? And will the super low FG of the 3711 mean it'll be safe to bottle relatively soon despite the brett?

    If I do the extra vile of Brett, will it even help?
     
  19. yinzer

    yinzer Savant (395) Pennsylvania Nov 24, 2006

    http://www.wyeastlab.com/com-lambic-brewing.cfm
    " It is important to note that Lactic Acid Bacteria is very sensitive to even moderate levels of IBU. Keep IBU levels below 10."


    I'm curious. I want to try and do a 100% Brett beer w/a common style with no sourness at all. For instance I had a Brett Black IPA that was pretty interesting. So anyone know how effect normal hopping rates will be with killing lacto?

    Or am I confusing to different compounds?
     
  20. ryane

    ryane Savant (355) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    The WY/WL lacto strains are terribly weak, 10IBU is even too much usually for them, generally its best to keep it to ~5IBU, and build a huge starter of them. Too often too few lacto cells are pitched and it doesnt get sour, this is a big reason lots of people add lacto for a couple days and then the yeast
     
  21. I have a 3711 + Brett B + Brett C saison which, after 4 months, has developed a noticeable little bit of tartness to go with the barnyard. Too lazy to bottle this in the 750s, it's just kegged. I think, but don't know, that the little bit of sourness is coming from the Brett C, so I think over time the OP can get some of that out of his Brett mix even without lacto.

    The saison from whose yeast cake this pitch came, I started drinking after about 3 months and still (at 6 months) have a few bottles. The tartness in these really didn't come on until about the 4th month, and it's more pronounced now than it was then. Can't resist temptation though; probably won't make it even to 9 months on these.
     
  22. I always pitch Lacto with Brett. Good 1-2 combo!!
     

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