100% brett v Roselare blend

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by bitterbeerguy, May 27, 2013.

  1. bitterbeerguy

    bitterbeerguy Aficionado (245) Minnesota Oct 23, 2011 Verified

    I tried my hand at a sour last summer- french oaked cherry sour- used the Roselare Wyeast blend...honestly, not much sour after 8 months:( I realize it might just need more time.

    My projects this summer are a WWBY remake (although I am going to add lemon juice and mango, not just mango) and a Juicy remake (grapefruit juice)...so do I...

    1. Use Roselare again and just be patient (a major weakness for this guy:))
    2. Use a brett blend with brux, lam, and claus and hope i get sour enough
    3. do # 2 and add lacto/ped if after 4-6 months still not sour
    4. other ideas...

    I use a belgian blonde or nut brown as the base typically. Did this for a Kriek once and it turned out devine...after about 18 months.

  2. jamescain

    jamescain Advocate (695) Texas Jul 14, 2009 Verified

    #2 won't make it sour. The best solution is time. What temperature do you keep the beer at?
    SFACRKnight likes this.
  3. barfdiggs

    barfdiggs Savant (420) California Mar 22, 2011

    #2 will not make a sour beer.

    Do #1. If you want the beer to be more sour, you'll need more unfermentables that saccharomyces cannot ferment, but that the the bugs can; suggestions (don't need to do all of the above):

    - Mash higher
    - Add flaked oats and wheat to the grist
    - Maltodextrin powder (Lactose might work as well, but maltodextrin definitely works)
    - Add candi sugar or other sugars once sacch has died off and only bugs remain, ca 6 months (this works wonders)
    - Give the beer time (8 months is a little young for flanders, but should be sour by that point)
    - Supplement with sour dregs from commercial beers (make sure they're not pasteurized or re-yeasted with champagne yeast)

    Roselare will make a sour beer. You can also supplement with dregs if desired. Rack off once clears into secondary vessel for less funk.
  4. Roselare should take between 12-16 months to finalize from what I heard. I just brewed my first batch with it and I'm just gonna forget about it for a long time.
  5. I have used roselare 5 times now. Give it enough time and it will be plenty sour.
  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Advocate (740) Wisconsin Aug 13, 2005 Verified

    If you want to speed up your souring, you could experiment with pitching lacto. My Berliner weisse got sour pretty fast, with half a pack of US-05 and Wyeast 5335 pitched directly into primary.
  7. bitterbeerguy

    bitterbeerguy Aficionado (245) Minnesota Oct 23, 2011 Verified

    Thanks so much for all the feedback! I am VERY much looking forward to both the brew I have already made and the new brew. As a second question- do you move extra primary yeast in the secondary when you transfer...or just cut it off once not clear? I want to give these bugs a fighting chance:) Cheers!
  8. pweis909

    pweis909 Advocate (740) Wisconsin Aug 13, 2005 Verified

    In my limited experience, you can get more sour if you pitch your bugs in primary. What is my experience? The aforemention Berliner weisse with lacto pitched in primary (rapid, extensive sour) vs. two experiences with Roseleare pitched in 2ndary after primary with a Saccharomyces strain. Maybe it's apples and oranges, but you might try it this way if you are looking for sour.
  9. bitterbeerguy

    bitterbeerguy Aficionado (245) Minnesota Oct 23, 2011 Verified

    I have thought about that. A Belgian or English yeast then add roselare to secondary...I like it!
  10. Breweries re-yeast with champagne yeast? That's really interesting. What beers do you know of? Is that just to get it to that nice carb level?
  11. jamescain

    jamescain Advocate (695) Texas Jul 14, 2009 Verified

    I would just pitch the roselarein primary and leave it on the yeast cake. I'm assuming there is Brett in that blend. The Brett will feed off of the autolysing yeast.
  12. jamescain

    jamescain Advocate (695) Texas Jul 14, 2009 Verified

    usually its because the beers have been sitting there for a long time and most of the yeast are not viable. More traditional lambic producers will blend with a younger batch and use the yeast from that beer to carbonate their bottles. It takes longer though. Champagne yeast can also handle higher levels of acidity and alcohol, while not providing any noticeable extra flavor or aroma.
    daysinthewake likes this.
  13. flagmantho

    flagmantho Poobah (1,095) Washington Feb 19, 2009 Verified Subscriber

    I did an oud bruin with Roeselare in the secondary for 8 months as well, and I'd say it was about half as sour as I really wanted it to be. I mashed relatively low and didn't have any flaked adjuncts either, so lack of fermentables was probably my problem too.

    A question for those in the know: would racking onto a large amount of cherries in the secondary, while pitching a souring blend at the same time, provide sufficient extra fermentables for those bugs?
  14. Russian River, Lost Abbey, Anchorage, Ithaca, and many others repitch wine or Champagne yeast for bottle conditioning. I do it for most of my sours too. Wine yeast is acid/alcohol tolerant, not to mention cheap.
    daysinthewake likes this.
  15. Fruit will certainly help, both because it will add its own acids, and it will feed the bugs. My first Flemish Red was under-sour, but really improved after I racked it onto 2 lbs/gal of blackberries.
  16. bitterbeerguy

    bitterbeerguy Aficionado (245) Minnesota Oct 23, 2011 Verified

    Should I add flake fermentables (oats) to the boil, to the primary, to the secondary, or some combination of the three?
  17. The mash is where 99.9% of grain is added. I actually did oats in the boil once, the result wasn't great though