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2007 Bourbon County Stout - Let's clear the air

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by SeaWatchman, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. SeaWatchman

    SeaWatchman Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2012

    I've enjoyed watching the "hype" slowly build around the 2007 bottlings of this beer in which people think they have a rare-er bottle because it's attached to the 21-year old PvW. Thumbs up to the first person that said that, right or wrong.

    Once someone posted this chart:
    http://i.imgur.com/nEBqz.jpg (full size)


    And this blog post http://sabeermetrics.blogspot.com/2012/03/beer-review-bourbon-county-brand-stout.html a whole lot of 2007 bottles started coming out of the woodwork.

    Where specifically has it ever been shown that the various bottlings in 2007 were anything short of a blend? People tasting them side by side and a random blog post is hardly any solid evidence for people to be pimping these bottles because they think it was a precursor to rare or something like that. I would love to see some evidence one way or another that says xx/xx/2007 was Heaven Hill barrles and xx/xx/2007 was 21yr PvW barrels.

    Last I checked, no one was trying to say certain bottles of their 2006 vintage came from the 12yr old Heaven Hill vs the 16yr old Heaven Hill.
  2. hopsbreath

    hopsbreath Savant (485) Oregon Aug 28, 2009

    Wondering the same thing myself. Did a '07, '08, '09, '10 in 2010 and placed the '07 last in that lineup. Don't know the batch date on the bottle though. Can't imagine trading a ton for it, but hype always intrigues me so I'm sure I'll be paying attention to this thread.
  3. wisconsinbeer1

    wisconsinbeer1 Savant (350) Wisconsin Nov 11, 2004 Verified

    Crazy thought, but has anyone actually tried contacting GI to see what they say about it?
  4. mishuggah

    mishuggah Savant (310) Illinois Jul 14, 2009 Verified

    I agree on calling bullshit with using this to hype bottles up for trade. That doesn't mean it's untrue.

    I'm not sure where you live but I'd be glad to crack a few bottles of the '07 with you to help clarify the situation.
    arniepnminne and Rempo like this.
  5. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    What I'd like to know is why anyone thinks some of them being in PVW matters. Do people still believe that PVW imparts magic deliciousness to the beer? Even if for some reason they did bottle them separately, who cares? Hell, it might turn out that the other one's better for your palate (if they're different at all).
    ridglens, schwartzoid, libbey and 2 others like this.
  6. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Initiate (0) California Nov 26, 2008

    It does. Just check out Olde Rabbit's Foot.
    ridglens, Gosox8787, cavedave and 3 others like this.
  7. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    So a 4.15 beer vs a 4.08 beer? Also, it seems like there was enough going on between those versions that there are plenty of other explanations for why it would be different. (I've never had either, I don't really want to brave the NC trading waters.)
  8. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Initiate (0) California Nov 26, 2008

    I was joking. ORF was awful.
  9. mishuggah

    mishuggah Savant (310) Illinois Jul 14, 2009 Verified

    Well played.

    rAvg: 4.66
    pDev: 6.22%
    High: 5
    Low: 2.33

    Regular BCBS
    rAvg: 4.38
    pDev: 10.73%
    High: 5
    Low: 1.38

    I wouldn't say magic deliciousness... Possibly some fairy dust at the very least.
    afrokaze likes this.
  10. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Initiate (0) California Nov 26, 2008

    There's no question that the scores are different, but it's a well-known psychological effect that people "think" wine tastes better when told it is more expensive (read: premium), and I'm sure some of that confirmation bias comes into play with Rare vs. BCBS... not to mention they also aged Rare longer. I don't think the scores being different is conclusive proof that PvW barrels enhance flavor.
    ridglens, Gosox8787, brystmar and 5 others like this.
  11. mishuggah

    mishuggah Savant (310) Illinois Jul 14, 2009 Verified

    Agreed on all counts.
  12. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (715) Indiana Nov 29, 2007 Verified

    If the sampling played out to be truly blind, I'd bet a decent amount that a vast majority of people wouldn't be able to rank Rare above the 2007 - 2011 BCBS in a blind tasting AND be correctly confident in picking out Rare. In comparing all of them fresh, probably. As they stand today, I'd have to believe only 10% could do it.
  13. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Also, are those scores actually different? I'm not totally sure that using pDev as a variance is appropriate, but they're within a pDev of each other. (Stats is not my forte.)
  14. ChadQuest

    ChadQuest Initiate (0) Illinois Mar 4, 2009

    It is odd, that some of my Fav and least Fav'd stouts are aged in PVW Barrels.

    I guess that tells you it depends on the brewery and not the barrel, doesn't it.

    fwiw, PVW DL & BCS Rar. are the Fav
    MarkIntihar and harrymel like this.
  15. harrymel

    harrymel Initiate (0) Washington Dec 15, 2010

    My thoughts exactly.
  16. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Indiana Jan 18, 2010

    The x- and y- axes on that chart make my blood boil.
  17. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    The first couple times I saw that chart, I couldn't for the life of me figure out what bothered me about it, but it just seemed off to me. Now I know. Thanks. :D
  18. hopsbreath

    hopsbreath Savant (485) Oregon Aug 28, 2009

    ISO: Bourbony Count Stout.
    foobula and black13 like this.
  19. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Indiana Jan 18, 2010

    Not to derail the thread (I've also been wanting clarification on this as well), but it's the worst representation of exponential growth I've ever seen.
  20. AleWatcher

    AleWatcher Advocate (720) Illinois Jan 25, 2009

    More importantly;
    Even IF that one batch IS pvw, it doesn't taste better than any of the 2008s I've had.
    afrokaze, Kaydogg and MarkIntihar like this.
  21. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    AleWatcher and corby112 like this.
  22. Mavajo

    Mavajo Advocate (570) Georgia Feb 10, 2007

    If any "regular" offering of BCBS should have inflated value, it's the '09 bombers.
    mroberts1204 and YaKnowBrady like this.
  23. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Since when does taste matter??? lulz
    harrymel, Mavajo and AleWatcher like this.
  24. AleWatcher

    AleWatcher Advocate (720) Illinois Jan 25, 2009

    Good call.
    I forgot the first rule of the hype club...
    Mavajo and MarkIntihar like this.
  25. SeaWatchman

    SeaWatchman Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2012

  26. mdvatab

    mdvatab Savant (440) Indiana Apr 5, 2006


    "When 1,000 cases of BCBS were produced, the year 2005 resulted."
  27. black13

    black13 Savant (465) Oregon Apr 11, 2010 Verified

    For those that have had a few bottles of BCBS, the difference between Rare and BCBS is very ponounced. Although I've ran across a few bottles of BCBS that were pretty damn close to being Rare precursors.
  28. jegross2

    jegross2 Champion (750) Illinois Jan 3, 2010 Verified

    To be fair, that blog post was based on what I was told by the person who brought it. If its wrong I'll change it. I thought it was my favorite "no variant bottling" at the tasting before I was told it was pvw 21 and maybe that has something to do with how the bottles were
    Stored or whatever. Moral here is 07/08 all taste amazing
  29. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Indiana Jan 18, 2010

    But it's a wheated bourbon. So much smoother and sweeter. None of that rye to get in the way like it does for the crappy regular BCBS. I swear. Just wait until the Wheat Whiskey Bourbon County comes out. It'll knock your socks off. It'll be the best thing since the last BCBS variant that was released. Might even be in Bernheim barrels - no corn to get in the way either! Every single review will rave about how smooth it is. If I can manage to find a bottle (it'll be tough), I'll trade you one - what kind of whales.rar do you have?
  30. LoPo87

    LoPo87 Savant (270) Oregon Mar 9, 2012 Verified

    I think people freak out over seeing a beer being aged in PVW barrels. The difference here is which Pappy Barrels they were aged in. Rare (and King Henry) were aged in the Pappy 23 year barrels. That bourbon is leaps and bounds better than other versions of Pappy bourbon (although 20 year is great too). They stopped distilling at Pappy in 1991 I believe and eventually Buffalo Trace acquired the brand and began distilling it since. So as of now I think the 23 (and maybe the 20) are the only original Pappy barrels left. I find that because of the name, breweries are barrel aging in younger pappy barrels that actually came from Buffalo Trace and having people go ape-shit over the beer even though there are plenty of better barrels used in aging. Just my thoughts.
    AleWatcher likes this.
  31. foobula

    foobula Savant (340) Illinois Dec 14, 2009

    Let me fix that right up for ya. (full size)


  32. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (715) Indiana Nov 29, 2007 Verified

    Well, the Rare that I sent you was actually a blend of 2008/2009 BCBS re-bottled. That may explain why you've found some similarities. :D
    ridglens, clegolfski and AleWatcher like this.
  33. jegross2

    jegross2 Champion (750) Illinois Jan 3, 2010 Verified

    This. Though I've had the 15 year pappy once somewhat recently and it's still damn tasty ;)
  34. this bears repeating.

    you have all these people who are not bourbon connoisseurs latching onto the hype of the pvw 23 name and thinking that this must automatically impart quality to beers aged in those same barrels. it's an embarrassing testament to the power of marketing.

    regarding the pvw brand: they've been distilling it at buffalo trace for a while now, and the younger vintages have been partially or fully made at bt. do you see bourbon lovers melting down over it? no. buffalo trace is doing just fine with it. pappy van winkle 23 barrels will continue to be available in the future for rare pt. 2, king henry pt. 2, pvw dark lord pt. 2, pvw eclipse pt. 2, and they'll all be sold at high markups to people who couldn't tell the difference in a blind tasting.
    cavedave likes this.
  35. Rempo

    Rempo Initiate (0) Indiana Jan 18, 2010

    Rebel Yell Eclipse sold out quickly. ;)
  36. Power of marketing or power of suggestion?

    I personally dont like bourbon, or any spirit for that matter, so I had never heard of PvW until it started getting thrown around in the beer world. Then everyone was like "OMG PvW!!!1!" and started hyping it more with testament to Rare and other advertised PvW -bals. So for me, I couldn't care less about the brand, but became intrigued by the claims of better results from using PvW. So I guess I'm asking if the PvW name really had anything to do with the hype, or if it more relates to the initial beers that just happened to be aged in PvW that the world went crazy over?
  37. eclipse seriously cracks me up. i think it's a subpar beer, but aging in cheap shit barrels is like they're just trolling to see who else catches on. ffs, the beer costs more than the bourbons.
  38. backfat

    backfat Initiate (0) Indiana Dec 28, 2009

    ISO: Fighting Cock Eclipse

  39. not sure. i don't know where the excitement originated.