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2007 Bourbon County Stout - Let's clear the air

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by SeaWatchman, Jun 20, 2012.

  1. t8000shx

    t8000shx Savant (340) New York Mar 2, 2004

    Unless I've missed it, this is an incredibly under-appreciated point, particularly after 2011 when they used barrels from some well regarded distilleries/product lines. I've enjoyed the various treatments I've tasted from 2011, but when 50/50 announced their 2012 offerings, I felt... puzzled.
    BearsOnAcid likes this.
  2. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Advocate (630) Oregon Mar 2, 2008

    The PvW craze is another in the line of adjuncts to go ga-ga over.

    Before this it was Kopi Luwak stouts.

    I predict elderflowers is next.
  3. That's in Pliny right?

    FT: Pliny the Elderflower ISO: offers lulz
  4. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Screw all this PVW talk, I want something aged in spent Basil Hayden's barrels, damnit.

    Then after that we can get serious with something in GTS barrels.
  5. Rempo

    Rempo Advocate (625) Indiana Jan 18, 2010

    I'd trade for some liquid aged in GTS barrels, if you hear what I'm sayin'.
    Arbitrator and MordorMongo like this.
  6. The difference is most likely the time spent in barrels - Rare sat for 2 years. 2 years in a Buffalo Trace barrel would probably taste about the same as Rare. A non-bourbon drinker would be lucky to get even 1 out of 10 bourbons right in a blind taste test. There is no way in hell they could pick out what barrel the beer was aged in.

    The majority of beer drinkers are not bourbon drinkers.

    Thus, the bourbon used in barrel aging is mostly marketing and geekspeek.
  7. jegross2

    jegross2 Champion (750) Illinois Jan 3, 2010 Verified

    Choo choo. Get out of the way of the hype train. You throw your two cents down an you'll just get some flattened pennies
    franklinn and SubpoenaDeuces like this.
  8. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Before I got into craft beer (and now mead) drinking I was pretty much all bourbon all the time, and you cannot be more accurate about this. I have attended more bourbon tastings than beer tastings still to this point and while true experts can certainly tell the differences amongst bourbons (not at as high of % as they would lead you to believe though, trust me) there is little chance that EVEN A BOURBON EXPERT can pick out the differences in a beer aged in barrel X or barrel Y.

    It honestly amuses me to no end.

    You all want to have some fun, find 5 or 6 different bourbons and taste them blind, you will be amazed at just how wrong you can be. Should you choose to swallow them all you will also be drunk enough not to care, so win-win.

    FWIW PvW is indeed a world class bourbon....the best though? Not even close.
  9. cavedave

    cavedave Poobah (1,060) New York Mar 12, 2009 Verified

    I bet I can't tell bourbons with accuracy, but I'm gonna say I'm pretty sure I could tell Rare from BCBS blind, and many of the more experienced stout drinkers could as well.

    Never heard of Pappy Van Winkle before encountering beer aged in namesake barrels of great whiskeys, but if that is the delicious deep satiny booze barrel flavor that blends so well in Rare's taste I am highly in favor of it.
  10. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I agree but the important point is 2 years in the barrel moreso than WHAT barrel.
    StoutFest and cavedave like this.
  11. jegross2

    jegross2 Champion (750) Illinois Jan 3, 2010 Verified

    Sorry but I can taste the rarity too. Maybe not which barrel, but definitely the rarity.
  12. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Now that we're getting completely off topic...

    Does anyone know if all of the Eclipse varieties were aged for the same amount of time? I'm just curious, because, while on their own I most definitely would not be able to pick out the different bourbons or probably even many differences between each variety, when we did a side-by-side with all of the different variations (I know they weren't all aged in bourbon barrels, specifically) there was a clear difference in taste to me. If I'm not mistaken, the base beer is the same for all of the varieties as well, correct?

    Like I say, I'm sure that I couldn't pick out each different type of barrel used, but I could definitely tell you which beers were better than the others. I guess my point is that just because all beer drinkers aren't bourbon experts doesn't necessarily mean that they're just "tasting the rarity". I don't have to know shit about bourbon to tell you which of the two beers in front of me is the better one. ;)
    tewaris likes this.
  13. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Precisely correct. I wish GI has aged BCS in Heaven Hill for two years as then a true comparison could be made. I would GUESS the PvW would be better because it IS a better Bourbon. I am 99% sure even a non-bourbon drinker would prefer Pappy 23 to Heaven Hill. Now take BCS and age 2 years in Pappy 23 and Pappy 15....then compare? That is when I am GUESSING the differences become indistinguishable.
  14. i'm not sure a thin stout like eclipse is really the best way to prove that barrels taste different.

  15. No way, Barrel Aged People's Porter, best PvW iteration ever.
  16. Mag00n

    Mag00n Savant (475) New York Nov 21, 2008

    I actually thought this was pretty nice, for a porter. Def an improvement over regular PP
    eyeenjoybeer and EasyReader like this.
  17. There are so many factors at play though. The bourbon, the barrel, the precise time spent aging, how the beer actually aged, potential batch variation, further aging in the bottle, etc, etc. Basically it's not just the one variable of "bourbon type" that is going to make the difference in taste in the Eclipse series.

    Even then - let's assume all factors are completely the same except for the Bourbon type. Take EC12 and EC18 side-by-side, it's not hard to say "oh that tastes a bit different from that, and I like this one better". However, if instead of side-by-side, try one blindly now, and then in another month try the other blindly, and I bet the vast majority of people couldn't even begin to guess which was which.
  18. nlmartin

    nlmartin Advocate (560) Ohio Jul 26, 2005

    Maybe not elderflowers but for sure Dingle Berries.
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  19. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    No, but they can still tell you which one they liked better. Which was my point...
  20. Again though, now you've introduced too many variables. Our palates vary a bit from day to day, your mood will be different, setting will be different, etc. Those kinds of things will introduce differences that are larger than the subtleties of the different bourbon barrels.

    Or, to put it another way:

    - Do a blind side-by-side today and see which one you like better.

    - In 3 months blindly taste one, and then in 6 months blindly taste the other.

    I bet you'd see something close to a 50/50 distribution on people who prefer the same beer in those two scenarios.
  21. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    I guess we'll just agree to disagree on that last bit. It would definitely be an interesting experiment though.
  22. isn't eclipse known for having terrible bottle variation? are you ignoring that or banking on it in your experiment?
  23. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    He's ignoring it. I'm not sure how bad the bottle variation was with this year's (I didn't really experience it with the few varieties I've had multiple times), but they're also pretty much the only beers you can do this with.
  24. Ignoring. A few posts earlier I mentioned that there are so many variables in play that you could almost never do this experiment and expect accurate results. But, all things equal, if just the bourbon changed, I still don't think it would matter much.
  25. gotcha. and i'm in agreement with the last statement. if the bourbon mattered in a blind taste test, people would have made a big deal about different vintages of bcbs and ba blackout before being told what the barrels were.
  26. Currently a listing on the Bay for a 2007. Listed in the title and comments

    I love it!
  27. JAXSON

    JAXSON Savant (475) Pennsylvania Dec 15, 2005

    As I type this I'm drinking a 2011 BCBS that is nearly as good as the few bottles of Rare I've had (I'm not counting the one Rare bottle that was stored in crap conditions). Despite that, none of the BCBS I've had, even the best bottles, are as thick and chewy as Rare is. Pappy 23 is such a rich, lush whiskey that married perfectly with the base beer in Rare, it really has a dimension of cake-like chewiness that BCBS never had.

    In short -- I would like to indulge in this blind tasting. When is it?
    claaark13 likes this.
  28. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (725) Indiana Nov 29, 2007 Verified

    If you drive your ass to Indy, I'll set it up.
    JAXSON likes this.
  29. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (725) Indiana Nov 29, 2007 Verified

    Wait, really? Thick and chewy?

    EDIT - you know this is not an attempt to call you out. I legitimately disagree with "thick and chewy" with the Rare. However, I reviewed my notes and it as been a solid 6 months since my last bottle. Carbonation could have gone down since then maybe?
  30. JAXSON

    JAXSON Savant (475) Pennsylvania Dec 15, 2005

    I was just wondering -- when they put the base beer into the PVW 23 barrels however many years ago, were they intending to create a new beer or just another BCBS vintage? Did he just taste it after a year and was like "shit, this is really good" and decide to keep aging it and make it a new beer? It seems like he would change up the barrels used and whatnot so it wouldn't really surprise me if Rare wasn't supposed to simply be a particularly-expensive-to-produce version of BCBS.
    claaark13 likes this.
  31. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (725) Indiana Nov 29, 2007 Verified

    I'm serious. Drive over here and I'll make it happen. I may even open a bottle of SNR'08 (read: I will open a bottle of SNR'08).
  32. JAXSON

    JAXSON Savant (475) Pennsylvania Dec 15, 2005

    Yeah, it has surprisingly high carbonation (especially the bottle I had that was stored in crap conditions) but I still find it to be easily among the thickest BA stouts I've had, and the flavors are so huge that only makes it thicker. Like good BCBS on 'roids.
  33. Pahn

    Pahn Champion (840) New York Dec 2, 2009 Verified

    i think he was genuinely excited to have barrels from the rare pappy 23, and decided to go all out and age some BCBS base beer extra long in them*. i doubt it being pappy vs just being in the barrels longer made all that much of a difference, but it is a delicious bourbon (i wouldn't even know; only had pappy 20--can't imagine 23 is worse).

    * AKA i think the ad copy story is true, but i also think "vowing never to make it again" is totally crass and beer-geek-patronizing (plus stupid; as i've said before, if it's so awesome, why not make more?).
  34. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Initiate (0) California Nov 26, 2008

    I couldn't agree more. That's why I set up this trade a few months ago.

    "Also, I'm offering a bottle of GI Rare for 2 4-packs of BCBS '11."

    I think 2011 is the best vintage fresh since 2007, although I never had 2010 fresh. I still have two bottles of Rare, and I'm considering making the same offer again.
    MarkIntihar and eyeenjoybeer like this.
  35. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Illinois Nov 23, 2010

    Not that I have a ton of BCBS experience, but I also loved the 2011...so much so that I drank all of mine in the span of 2-3 months.

    Wish I would have seen that trade offer at the time. I'm still waiting to get my first sip of Rare.
    MarkIntihar and eyeenjoybeer like this.
  36. StoutFest

    StoutFest Savant (315) Illinois Dec 15, 2009

    In a blind tasting I ranked Rare above all. I knew exactly which one it was too by taste and smell. The other 9% were right on as well.

    The one I've seen people have trouble with blindly is picking out BCBVS among BCBCS.
    CityofBals likes this.
  37. StoutFest

    StoutFest Savant (315) Illinois Dec 15, 2009

  38. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (725) Indiana Nov 29, 2007 Verified

    Didn't you trade for a ton of rare a while back? I would hope that you could do it. I was directing it more towards the masses, but your blind tasting is still evidence.
  39. tbadiuk

    tbadiuk Savant (425) Manitoba (Canada) Feb 9, 2009 Verified

    Really? Wow, I don't see how that's possible, as the coffee hit at the end that you get with BCBCS .vs. the sweet vanillia throughout BCBVS is a pretty huge difference. I didn't find the difference subtle at all. Now, my 2010 faded coffee flavour BCBCS bottles .vs. regular BCBS stout I could see...

    Edit: Let's see if this works....

  40. SteelersX

    SteelersX Advocate (525) New York Jan 30, 2011 Verified

    That is a lovely picture
    tbadiuk likes this.