Discussion in 'Northwest' started by Dogfishipas, Dec 28, 2012.
From Alan's Twitter - I guess the carb issue is in fact a widespread issue.
Alan Sprints @hairofthedog
“@olympuszymurgus: @hairofthedog @bierkraft Doggie Clawz, perchance?” Yep, low carbonation though #BeerLove
Yep, saw that on Twitter earlier today. Nice to see him acknowledge it, even if it was just a quick blurb.
I know this is about 2012 DC, but has anyone else had the same experience with 2012 Michael as I did? F.L.A.T.
There's never been any debate there (I may have even posted as much pre-release based on trying a bottle at the brewpub a couple days before). Michael is currently dead flat. FWIW, 2009 Michael was also flat at the release and over time developed into a gusher.
Yup, and it was $14. Kind of a joke actually.
I'm going to hold off on opening my Michael for at least a year...
I opened a 2009 Michael on new years and it was not a gusher but it looked similar to the OP pic, it was not as muddy but it had serious chunks in it and it tasted like crap. Very inconsistent brewery. Sometimes the beers are good and sometimes they are crap. I heard a while back that Alan was playing around with a new yeast. From now on the only beers I will buy are barrel aged special releases. Fred from the wood, adam from wood, cherry adam, bourbon fred, matt, etc. are always stellar but all the regulars like adam, fred, doggie claws, and others are hit and miss.
I haven't heard anything about a yeast change ( except of course that Michael uses the roesalare blend), but I know a recent batch of Fred was made with a different sugar from normal and was surprisingly different. Also, hops can change from batch to batch. Again, it's important to realize just how small an operation they are, and that they can't lock in contracts on supplies the way the big guys do.
Frankly, though, I'm perplexed by the suggestion that the special releases are more consistent then the standard line
Had one last night, super flat, floats magoats, but it was very tasty. I mostly got an intense caramel flavor and an oily mouthfeel.
I would not say the special releases are more consistent necessarily than the regulars they are just better tasting IMO overall and the only ones I will pay for anymore. I think we need to inform breweries about their problems so they can try and fix them. I am not sure what is going on with hotd but they need to do a serious quality control check...
Just got back from the brewery. I had a taster of the '12 DC and man...it tastes WAY different than the bottles i bought. All the bottles i had were hazy, almost murky. All candi sugar: toffee, caramel...sweet. At the brewery, it poured a dark amber, but clear. Big hop presence in the front and only slight caramel sweet on the finish.
It speaks to consistency, obviously, but good beer is good beer IMO. and BTW, Peach Fred is delish!
Just to check, you know you need to handle the bottle gently, pour carefully, and leave the last 1/2" or so of liquid behind if you want any hope of a clear beer, right? But, even under the best conditions, a bottled-conditioned beer is almost never going to be as clear as what you'll get out of a keg.
Was this bottle carbonated? Like I said above, all of mine have been clear to about the last half ounce... but mine have had pretty heavy carbonation.
Well I guess the moral of the story is to keep another carbed beer handy just in case you need to blend your flat one.
So all I have to do now is buy a bunch of DC, pour them all into my Corny keg and force carb them? Bah....
Decided not to return my second. I am going to leave it out at room temperature for a couple weeks to see if the yeast will come alive and improve carbonation.
gently handled: yes
leave about an inch of beer in bottle on initial pour: yes
By no means have my bottles looked like the OP, that shit looks like some tainted yoohoo! and yeh i get the keg is for sure gonna pour clear. But its the taste difference that amazed me.
Mine had low carbonation, definitely not heavy carbonation.
I actually did this with one of my bottles. I had the '12 DC and a '11 Mad River John Barleycorn I was drinking side by side. When i was almost done with the 2, I poured what was like 2/3 dc and 1/3 mad river into another glass and it balanced out what each other beer was lacking.
Ima have open another one up and post a pic after all this. Pic to come...
Were the bottles you bought at the dock sale too? I bought a case at the dock sale and the two or three I've had so far have been excellent with no quality issues. Are these hand bottled or something? I don't understand how there can be so much variation within the same few dozen cases. I have to say I'd be pissed if I bought a magnum, or 3L and it was messed up. Wow, they were selling 3Ls? I thought they were listed as magnums.
Is each batch of beer as denoted on the bottles four barrels worth of beer?
I bought a case at the dock sale. We opened two tonight and both had reasonable (i.e. low, but not zero) carbonation. Amount of sediment in the bottles was also reasonable and mitigated by a careful pour (like all bottle conditioned beer).
Size shouldn't limit a brewery on obtaining supplies. It definitely affects the cost, but every craft brewery in the area orders largely from the same two suppliers and choose products from the same set of catalogs. Small breweries can obtain almost anything (even tiny Old Market in SW over-contracted for Amarillo in 2011, which is probably the most difficult to obtain hop). The only time supply should be an issue is when a brewery doesn't contract their hops correctly, either due to poor planning or an unanticipated spike in production, which is situation most encounter at one point or another.
Also, this has nothing to do with the existing conversation but I'm curious what your definition of a "big guy" is.
Well, you certainly have more knowledge of the situation "on the ground", as it were, but I've definitely gotten the impression that many small breweries had difficulty getting some of the hops they'd like to use. And, multiple people were definitely told that the odd batch of Fred recently was due to a sugar substitution.
I couldn't say that I have a clear line of what's a "big guy" and a "small guy", although I'm fairly comfortably putting Deschutes and HotD on different sides of that line. I was actually somewhat surprised myself to look up the numbers and realize just how small HotD is (or, has chosen to stay). Aren't most of the new breweries in town running 7-barrel systems and up? (I'm not sure how the total production volumes compare.)
well shit dude, at least you didn't buy a case haha
as far as the blend options i was thinking like w_klon above and blending bottles
either way I'm going to sit on the rest of my case for a year and see how things taste then, American barley wine needs at least a year of cellar time regardless of carbonation IMO
I had the same experience with Hair of the Dog's numbers last year. It really surprised me. I was just curious, but I think your dividing line is accurate. Portland is a brewpub oriented culture, which means smaller brewhouses. This really hit home for me when I traveled to San Diego last year and visited most of the breweries there. I was amazed at the size of even the smaller production breweries. It's definitely a unique culture we have here.
I read in the Boneyard canning thread that Boneyard is currently producing 10000 barrels a year which blows my mind in contrast to what you or someone reported HOTD to currently be producing 600 barrels a year. Maybe the 10000 number for boneyard is a typo but count my mind as officially blown. Boneyard isn't even bottling or canning yet.
As of October, Boneyard sold 5,800 barrels in the state of Oregon. I believe they're sending product to WA as well, which makes me believe the 10k number isn't far off.
Boneyard has been up here in WA since at least August 2011. RPM, Hop Venom and Aleias are normally on tap somewhere, with Girl Beer, Armored Fist and Suge Knight showing up from time to time.
Notorious is all you missed
Sure hope the $75 3L isn't as flat as the last three bottles I've opened
Just opened a flat bottle. Tastes fine though! I also stopped pouring at the right time.
After the bottles I've opened, I have little hope that my 3L is going to be any different.
So i opened another bottle tonight. Here's a pic of the beer in a glass:
Low cabonation, hazy
Here's the bottle with about an inch of beer in it:
Mad yeast sediment on the bottom
And then for shits and giggles, i agitated the bottle in pic 2 and poured it into the glass after a few sips:
...tainted yoohoo(lol). didnt change the taste much, just the mouthfeel. and actually, i enjoyed it a more all murky.
Again, good beer is good beer. Cheers
Yeah, that goes to something a couple of us were wondering about during an in-person conversation this week. I don't want to be making accusations that people don't know how to drink beer, but there's some concern that perhaps people are getting these beers in trades where all the sediment is getting kicked up in transit, then opening them the same night. (Or not in trades, but at the store, tossed into a grocery bag and sloshed around, etc.) There certainly does seem to be a trend of people who got a case at the dock sale and put it down in their cellar having better experiences with the beer than those outside of the immediate area.
You're right, I did pour mine after coming straight from the store so it definitely was shaken up. I didn't inspect the bottle before purchasing it so how was I to know that there was an inch of sediment at the bottom. I did state in my original post that it tasted fine. I am not scared of floaties.
Regardless that doesn't fix the completely flat beer issue. If you enjoy flat beer and losing over an ounce of your purchase then more power to you. I don't.
Alan is always popping up on BA or facebook or wherever when it's time to announce a dock sale, but when it comes to questions about quality of his beer, you can pretty safely expect silence.
"Losing over an ounce" is the price paid for a bottle conditioned beer. I don't see anyone complaining that the last bit of their Cantillon is all yeast and sediment.
I agree with you, though, about flat beer. I don't like flat beer either. I am fine with low carbonation in certain styles, including barleywines. My DC bottles from this year have all had low carbonation, quite distinct from zero carbonation beers like 2011 BF and CA, or the current state of Michael. It does suck that your bottle wasn't carbonated at all.
agreed, but this is not something one should normally have to worry about when decanting a barleywine from a 12oz bottle.
If it's bottle-conditioned, I don't see why not. I don't think that bottle conditioning is particularly common with American-made barleywines, though. Smuttynose and Old Numbskull were the only ones that popped up in a quick google search (and they are both in larger bottle formats).
I have my very first Doggies Claws and am wondering if I got a real dog or a winner here.
Will report after I crack that bad boy !
mmmm drinking a fully carbed and delicious 2012 right now
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