1. Looking to trade some beers? Check out How to Get Started with Beer Trading.
Dismiss Notice
Save $5 when you subscribe to 12 issues / year of BeerAdvocate magazine by selecting auto-renew.

Subscribe now →
Dismiss Notice
Join Our Email List →

And we'll send you the latest updates and offers from BeerAdvocate, because knowing is half the battle.
Dismiss Notice

Pre-order your Respect Beer "Hipster" Hoodie today!

Plus: Free shipping (US only) on orders of $25 or more until 12/18/15. Just select "Free Shipping" at checkout.

Shop now →

Any ideas on how to stop lame boxes from showing up? Lame BIF box list?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by readbaron, Dec 14, 2012.

  1. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Champion (920) New York Dec 13, 2009 Verified

    time will tell...you'd be surprised at how many people make public statements about sending a box or doing something for someone and never follow through. i know of LIFs never completed and plenty of "you got screwed, i'm sending you a box" from many a reputable BA that turned out to be no more than just politicking. you'd be shocked at the names, but it happens.
    cavedave and stxSS07 like this.
  2. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Is that supposed to mean something related to this instance? Am I missing something? Is this a jab at me? I am not sure how that relates to this thread.
  3. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Champion (920) New York Dec 13, 2009 Verified

    just saying that talk is just talk. pictures or it didn't happen. not at you, not at this thread...but it is one thing to talk, it is another thing entirely to do. not everyone who talks, does.
    NJOssie likes this.
  4. CruisaC

    CruisaC Savant (345) Ohio Sep 3, 2010 Verified

    I may be over simplifying here, but really the spirit of a BIF should be to send out a box you would be happy to receive. If you do your research and try to hit wants, favorite styles, and beers not distributed to your target, you will send a successful box almost every time. No, BIFs should not be an attempt to gain whales.

    I will say that the trend of some of the BIFs in question was that of sending mediocre boxes, without much attempt to fufill the basic spirit of a BIF. I have my suspicions on the genuineness of some of the claims of ignorance, but I applaud the decision to enter into the conversation instead of hiding. Time will tell if all the commotion made a difference.
    FTowne likes this.
  5. cavedave

    cavedave Poobah (1,060) New York Mar 12, 2009 Verified

    brendan4532 I hope you make good on all you say. When you do I will take you off the BART list on my profile page.
    robinsmv, oteixeira and NJOssie like this.
  6. adamdd

    adamdd Savant (365) Michigan May 9, 2011 Verified

    If you participate in a BIF and follow the "Haul" thread, don't you want to see the box that you sent out received with excitement? In the two BIFs that I have participated in, this is as much fun as actually receiving a box. If your box meets the absolute minimum, and is blown out of the water by all the other boxes, wouldn't you feel a little bit of regret? When other BIF participants and even his friends have to make up for lackluster boxes (more than once), there is a problem. Someone shouldn't need to be called out publicly in a BIF thread or a thread like this to be able to recognize that their boxes were subpar by comparison.
    Pelican5, robinsmv, cbeer88 and 4 others like this.
  7. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Illinois Nov 23, 2010

    First I've seen of this fella and I love it. I'll be checking back weekly for updates.
    ASUBeer likes this.
  8. Hanzo

    Hanzo Champion (965) Virginia Feb 27, 2012

    To be honest this thread scared the crap out of me, enough to where I sent a second supplemental box in a BIF (my first) I am currently entered in (even though I would have been happy to get the box I sent, but I am easily pleased). I don't see how you cannot know the people you sent boxes to are disappointed, I know when I send someone a box in a trade I am glued to their postings until I see it received and opened and ensure a positive reaction so I can only assume the same is for BIFs.

    That said, the guy has come clean and admitted he screwed up, no reason not to give him a chance to right his wrongs. But I cannot blame people for not being excited about him being their sender. I hope after he sends out some good boxes his reputation can be restored so he doesn't have to wear this scarlet letter forever.
  9. NJOssie

    NJOssie Savant (275) New Jersey Feb 28, 2012

    funny about being scared by this thread Hanzo... I hear you. Honestly, my first trade nobody told me about extras... subsequently I traded with a noob after I had a handful of trades under my belt and I slammed her with extras...

    my first BIF was group BIF... we more than met minimum requirements... but the box we received was so awesome... some might say it was on par with ours but I was so happy with that box. The next BIF I happened to be given a target that part of the team that killed my team... I did my best to try to repay that and then some...

    it's beer karma... if you never feel like you gave more than you got, you're doing it wrong
  10. I'm kind of worried that this thread might have that effect on people, because BIFs are supposed to be fun - not stressful. The vast majority of BIF boxes are great. As long as you put some thought in and exceed the bare minimum, you've done just fine. Most people do that, and I'm sure you did great with your original box. If you sent a nice new local 4.0 rated bottle and your target is upset because he didn't get a 4.1 popular limited release instead, then that is your target's issue to deal with.

    Nobody besides Fedex wins if we turn every BIF into a massive whale war.
  11. ehammond1

    ehammond1 Champion (790) Jul 4, 2008

    Let's keep it PG, please.
  12. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    I think this is the wrong mentality regarding BIFs, point blank. The point is you don't get to choose your sender. As MizzouGuy stated earlier, Brendan did send a solid box in the BA Goodness BIF, and now that he's seen that his typical mentality with BIF boxes isn't cutting it, he'll be upping his game going forward.

    Straight up, I'd want Brendan to be sending to me in his next BIF. Likely going to be above and beyond, if my expectation serves me right.

    If you want to know who's sending to you, do a locals for locals mystery box with a reputable trader. If you want to know what you're getting, http://beeradvocate.com/community/forums/iso-ft.25/
  13. I just completed my 2nd trade and I sent the agreed upon items and 3 extras, highly rated extras, but still just 3 of them. This thread now has me worried that it was a bit on the low end. I hope dudes happy, and I sent out a box I'd be happy to receive, that said, I'm still worried that it might be seen on the lower end of things by most
  14. Well, to each his own. I just don't want to get a box that doesn't even meet requirements. As has been pointed out quite a few times, he never really said or did a thing until he was called out on the carpet here and kicked out of a BIF. He also proves he can get good beer with his ISO/FT thread. I just wouldn't want to deal with him, and if a BIF has 20 or more people, (the one I am in now had 40+) then I am not trying to pick who is sending to me, I just want to make it clear that my sender shouldn't be someone I would never trade with person to person.
  15. I agree with a lot of what's been said but there is also nothing worse than opening a lack luster box especially in a traditional BIF where you then send to someone else.
  16. Ungertaker

    Ungertaker Advocate (540) Minnesota Apr 30, 2010 Verified

    I think that a sender who ships a box that doesn't meet the requirement should be given the chance to make it up. If he/she doesn't do so, then a list should be started and they should be added. If the box is just crap, that is a chance you take when you get in a bif.
    cosmicevan and Good_Trader like this.
  17. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    Understood, but again, not the point of BIFs. If you want to receive a box from someone you desire a box from, or a trading partner, or somebody that you know would "hook you up," then just trade with them. Otherwise, don't join BIFs, because the point is to not have a say in who sends to you.

    If everybody picks who they do/do not want to have sending to them, then what is the point of the organizer? I'm not saying you're wrong to not wish to deal with Brendan, but just having the "I want a better box than that one he sent" mentality is what is causing this blow up in the first place.

    You're right to have an opinion, and it's not necessarily a wrong one, but it's just a POV that detracts from the overall spirit of BIFs, IMO.

    Also, this:

    davesway10 and MarkIntihar like this.
  18. Good_Trader, again to each his own. I never said a thing about a box that was underwhelming, I said that the box didn't meet requirements. Anywho, it's all good, have a great holiday.
  19. Sucks but true and also the reason I'm done with them.

    I'm fine with hitting a guys top wants and blowing them away when I get a solid box back... but when I send limited release or brewery only beers and get noting but shelf beers half of which are distributed to my state (some from a state north or me) I'm a little let down
    LieutenantSour and Ungertaker like this.
  20. DSlim71

    DSlim71 Savant (495) New Jersey Mar 3, 2010

    Just in defense of OTex, he has been one of the more active and positive people in our Secret Santa BIF. That's his first BIF and if you flip through some of his other posts, he has nothing but the right attitude about BIFs in general.
  21. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    Fair enough, and I'm not trying to say he's a bad dude or anything like that. Just debating his phrasing regarding his desire to pick and choose his senders in a BIF, as that's just not how they work.
    StarRaptor likes this.
  22. readbaron

    readbaron Savant (375) Illinois May 12, 2010

    I'm sure that anybody who is even thinking about sending a second box has nothing to worry about. I'm sorry to hear that the thread caused you to do that. BIFs should definitely be fun, and unless its otherwise specified, whales/limited releases are by no means required.

    The box that bothered me (and no, it wasn't from you stupac2 - but I think you knew that :p) came from a BIFer that usually sends out really nice boxes (both before and after the BIF we were in together). In that BIF he recieved a really awesome box - then waited a while before sending out an underwhelming box, late. It seemed like he was using the BIF as a cellar cleaning opportunity. It was the lack of thought and effort more than the beers in the box that bothered me, as it certainly met the BIF criteria and there were a couple beers in there that I wanted to drink.

    Another friend of mine had a similar experience recently. A seasoned trader who clearly has access to a lot of great beer sent out a box late, barely clearing the minimum requirements and hitting zero of my friend's wants. He felt much like I did - dissapointed that somebody would join a BIF then put zero effort into the box he sent out.

    People say sending out a great box is as much fun as recieving one - and there is some truth to it - but when you do spend a lot of effort to slaughter someone's wants and then get something with minimal effort in return, it's a slap to the nuts.

    Neither of us mentioned our dissapointment to the respective senders because they clearly met the requirements. I wondered if that was the right thing to do - if Ungertaker's "if the box is just crap, that is a chance you take when you get in a bif" statement was something that the community agreed with or not.

    I definitely disagree with the "if the box is just crap, that is a chance you take when you get in a bif" mentality, which is why I don't do many of them, and when I do join I try to pick ones that do specify 37 pieces of flair to minimize the chance of a nut slap.

    I don't want to come across as a negative nancy - my BIF experiences overall have been hugely positive. I've had some very generous people send to me (and have tried to reciprocate that generosity), and have found a regular trading partner because of one of the BIFs I was in.

    I started this thread to see if there was communal interest in doing something to try to decrease the number of mediocre boxes. It sounds like there is interest in doing something when people don't meet the requirements (which definitely makes sense to me), but violations of "the spirit of the BIF" are fair game. Correct?
  23. NJOssie

    NJOssie Savant (275) New Jersey Feb 28, 2012

    yeah, I think it's more along the lines of raising awareness in BIF's that those with bad track records should be omitted completely.

    I'm not sure how many other constant offenders there are and perhaps Brendan fixes his tendencies going forward... so hopefully it's not an issue at the start of every NBO
  24. DSlim71

    DSlim71 Savant (495) New Jersey Mar 3, 2010

    Seems like that's more your phrasing, he just said he wouldn't want Brendan sending to him. Not really picking and choosing as much as excluding. ;)
    oteixeira likes this.
  25. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    Maybe I'm looking too much into it, I've just never seen a participant post in an NBO "I'll join, only if you assign me someone other than that guy"

    Just my $0.02
    RC0032 likes this.
  26. NJOssie

    NJOssie Savant (275) New Jersey Feb 28, 2012

    has there been another case of repeat offenders like this though?
  27. DSlim71

    DSlim71 Savant (495) New Jersey Mar 3, 2010

    I've never seen that either, but I wouldn't allow someone in a BIF I was hosting if they failed to meet requirements in others so this wouldn't come up (not that I host BIFs anyway).

    No worries either way, just a little friendly banter because I'm bored at work.
  28. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    You're correct in stating that it's the organizers responsibility to vet all participants, but in this specific case, he joined all at once, and was already involved before boxes started dropping.

    mikesgroove. That was handled.... interestingly.
  29. NJOssie

    NJOssie Savant (275) New Jersey Feb 28, 2012

    I'll ask for details later... haha
  30. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    Fair enough, and not trying to undermine your character here or anything. Cheers to you, you seem like a super standup guy, and one whose heart is in the right place.

    Happy Holidays.

    Penguin3200 and NJOssie like this.
  31. Probably not the place to rehash that one, but it was a very different scenario. He had a long history of sending over the top boxes. Until he didn't...
  32. Good_Trader

    Good_Trader Initiate (0) Viet Nam Nov 21, 2012

    Totally true, VERY different situation, but someone I'd expect to be included on the proverbial "Bad BIF'er list", if ever one was to be created.

    And not trying to dredge up old butthurts, just providing past examples. There are others, just look at the hauls from just about any sports-betting -IFs. Almost always one of the crowd totally bails on sending out their ends. Happens with LIFs a lot too.
  33. pschul4

    pschul4 Advocate (660) Illinois Jan 7, 2011 Verified

    I have evidence that this is false
  34. NJOssie

    NJOssie Savant (275) New Jersey Feb 28, 2012

    hey! what's that supposed to mean? dislike!
    pschul4 likes this.
  35. pschul4

    pschul4 Advocate (660) Illinois Jan 7, 2011 Verified

    ;) I bet gaktsoris would be so happy the shit talking has slipped into other threads. Its only a matter of time before this becomes FantasyFootballAdvocate.com
    NJOssie likes this.
  36. You should be agonizing over the selection process for every BIF box you send. Get the seekabrew list for your target's state. Read your target's wants a dozen times. Read the BIF rules two dozen times. Print all three out and bring them to the bottle shop and/or cellar to make your selections wisely and carefully. For Christ's sake, check bottling and sell-by dates on IPAs. You need to be absolutely sure that each and every bottle will put a smile on your target's face.

    In music/movie/etc. BIFs, you should be watching and listening to tons of material before making your selections. Nothing feels better than absolutely blowing your target's mind with something obscure that totally nails their tastes.

    If this doesn't sound like your process, you're probably doing it wrong, and I hope you never send to me.

    ...and with all of this having been said, I'm pretty much done with BIFs anyway.
    DSlim71, adamdd and CruisaC like this.
  37. wingedeel

    wingedeel Advocate (540) Indiana Nov 17, 2005 Verified

    I was going to join a BIF, but you just cant get movies, or unused Koozies in Indiana. Sorry, but some of you are really gullible.
    NJOssie likes this.
  38. tofuspeedstar

    tofuspeedstar Savant (290) Texas Jul 12, 2012 Verified

    As the recipient of said 2nd trade, and knowing what's inside the box.

    You're fine. :)
  39. Interested to see what happens now, brendan4532 is in our Secret Santa BIF, he got a box last Friday, and hasn't posted a peep since in that thread. Today the organizer is asking who hasn't shipped yet, since the rules said the box had to be there by the 22, looks like someone did not meet the requirements....again. More reason to blacklist this guy.
  40. NJOssie

    NJOssie Savant (275) New Jersey Feb 28, 2012

    While I'm all for blacklisting him until he's corrected all his past wrongs, I don't think we should jump the gun and say he messed that one up too.. he's got 2 days for his box to land.
    cfh64, Good_Trader and Shilt like this.