Discussion in 'Beer Trading General / Help' started by suspect, Oct 29, 2012.
I'm not sure how to simultaneously like and dislike this post.
I am sorry that you dislike Milli Vanilli that much!
the ability to have email notices sent to you when packages ship/are delivered is great though.
Just got a chance to see this massive bad trader thread posted about me on my 4inch x 2inch Droid phone as i literally sit by dim candle lighting in my house that has no power right now. I spoke to suspect over the phone this afternoon and assured him that his box and also ASUbeer's box had went out w/ Fedex this past friday. I asked if he could please pass the message on to ASUbeer and he said he would. Also, did not give him a tracking number because i did not have it at work, the Fedex receipt was sitting on my desk at home. I am really surprised that suspect did not mention the bad trader thread he posted about me in our conversation this afternoon, i would think he would have.
The tracking numbers w/ Fedex from last friday:
468880615185237 - suspect (should of received by today unless storm delayed)
468880615185244 - ASUbeer
I am not making excuses for my lack of communication, my apologies. Every once in awhile my communication could be better, but most of the time i am on point. This trade puts me right around 200 trades completed w/ tons of great BAs and i have never once, stuck anyone for beer. However, again sorry to the 2 traders that my communication was not better on these deals.
In my defense it has been a rough month for me since i have been working alot 12 hour shifts for NYPD as a police officer, had my wife's birthday (10/12/12), our anniversary (10/03/12), multiple things going on w/ my 3 young children, am training constantly and dieting hard for my upcoming bodybuilding show on nov. 3rd, and then this storm hit here at the end of the month. I intended to get these boxes out way earlier than last friday and i communicated that, but shit kept coming up. Sorry for the tardiness. I also always have multiple trades going at once which is my fault because i really enjoy trading and it is like an addiction because alot of times, when i should not trade because i have too much going on in my life i do anyway because i love to trade.
One last thing, i have logged in on multiple occasions from my small ass droid phone briefly while i was at work in between jobs on patrol, mostly just quickly looking at the ISO:FT board out of habit/addiction. I also had a ton of messages in my box and did not get to opening suspects's or ASUbeers's most recent ones because they were way down the list and i was at work, sorry. The reason i was sending brief messages to black13 was because it was the most current negotiation that was at the top of the list of inbox messages. However, again i apologize to the 2 traders because i should have found a way to communicate better.
Lastly, everyone has a different personality and way of trading and some are more sensitive than others. I don't think much of constant communication sometimes because i am a very relaxed trader (which has suited me well thus far) and also i guess i feel my solid longstanding trading reputation should give BAs nothing to fear, which makes me lax on communication here and there. I will make a conscious effort in the future to be better w/ my communication and punctuality on deals to ease the minds of traders that are a little more worried on trade deals than i.
Suspect, you should like your box because i put more expensive Girardin black 1882 bottles in your package then 1.
you could have saved a lot of time (and face) by sending a short version of this message to the two guys involved a week ago. good of you to come through but you did fuck up. good luck with the bodybuilding show, from a fellow humble, weightlifting dude.
Thanks! Yeah i fucked up the communication on these 2 simultaneous trades, my fault entirely.
Boo, no happy endings!
mikeyv called all your moms ugly. I have the proof right here:
Glad to see this is straightened out. Never a doubt it would be, don't know Mike well, but well enough to know he would never screw anyone. Ever.
Blame it on the rain? You aren't even singing that song. LIPSYNCHER
I love happy endings that don't cost me an extra $20.
You're getting off cheap! (pun intended)
So - the important follow-up/takeaway question from this thread...
How long does one wait to post in a scenario like this? Given the scenario at hand, 9 times out of 10 it ends up being the early stages of a bad trade. This one just happened to fall in that other 1 out of 10.
Many in here said he was too early with the post. But every time a person waits 2 months to out a bad trader, the peanut gallery yells "you should have said something after 2 weeks - this was obvious!". It's sort of a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario.
It's almost like we need to set a standard that everybody can respectfully go by.
I think 2 weeks is more than enough time for a simple "I'm running behind" note.
You Ronnie Coleman brah? Light weight babayyyy!
Good luck at the upcoming show.
I hate to be the asshole that quotes himself, but I'm very leery about setting a "anything longer than X is grounds for a Bad Trader Alert". My post was tongue-in-cheek, but I honestly believe it depends on the situation. People have to decide for themselves whether or not they're getting the run around. You can't foolproof everything...
I personally agree to an extent, but I think history has shown that most people don't really know exactly how to deal with a bad trader scenario. It just doesn't happen that much. Here was a great example - I probably wouldn't have said anything quite yet, but I completely understand why something was said. So, if we had a simple "2 weeks past date first agreed and no communication, alert goes up" rule, then there wouldn't be any debate.
So based on his apology, prior trade history, the OP recieving his package, AND a superstorm.....does he get a free pass from the "Bad Traders List"? I think so. Can't we have an "accidental forgivness program" like Allstate? I mean there's alot of D-Bags on that list I don't think mikeyv35 is one of them. $0.02
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think you'll ever stop things like this from being up for debate. Next thing you know, people will want to lower it to one week. There seems to be a serious witch hunt on this site for "bad traders", and I'm just worried that some people will be called out undeservedly (hell, it's already happened to some very good friends of mine). And yeah, you can say "well if he/she's not a bad trader he/she can tell his/her side of the story and clear his/her name", but you know as well as I do that that doesn't matter to a lot of people on this site. They see a title with "Bad Trader" and a random username and that person is immediately on their list, no matter how unjustified (potentially) the post may be.
I don't think he was submitted to the list.
If his boxes get delivered and he goes on the bad trader list then the system is severely flawed. This has been discussed before.
If someone has bad communication but still follows through on their end of the deal, they should not be placed on the bad trader list. Some people believe otherwise.
Mike - Most importantly - I'm glad that you and your family are safe after yesterday's storm. I'm man enough to admit when I made a mistake and in this case - I was early in bringing this public. I've never had communication fall off like this in my previous ~25 trades so when it happened, I wasn't quite sure how to deal with it. I don't feel like an asshole but I am regretful that I didn't wait a little longer. It is however, a good lesson to learn that no matter how long you feel is appropriate to grow concerned over a potential trade gone sour, you should explore other options (telephone, email) before calling out a bad trader publicly. I should have posted under the title - anyone heard from "mikeyv35 in a while?" and gone about it that way.
Hopefully others will learn from this as well and Mike - Sorry about jumping the gun.
Thanks for the clarification.
Here is some discussion on it. I believe there was more to this one about why he was added but I'm not sure.
Do veteran traders get complacent and not treat trades like they used to when they were starting out? You betcha.
Sure, but that doesn't mean they all deserve "Bad Trader" posts.
I guess it goes back to treat every trade like how you would want to be traded with.
It's funny how a simple rule to live by that we all (hopefully) learned when we were four years old still holds true in just about every facet of everyday life...
I guess I don't put much stock in what the OP titled his thread. I'm more of a let's-hear-the-whole-story type of guy.
I wouldn't mind one going up about me in 1-2 weeks if I was logging on and failing to communicate. Doubly so if I was communicating with other people at the time. Triply so if I had the other person's beer in my possession. Quadruply so if I consumed the beer already.
Don't worry it will be sooner then that. I'm typing it up right now.
Damn. Only thing missing is 'my dog ate the box' - the best response would be to just leave it at you're sorry, change your 'relaxed' communication habits and let time take care of the rest.
He was obviously uncomfortable; a situation that you placed him in.
As someone who has recently begun traveling for work often, I have a hard time (at times) keeping up with the forums as much as I used to. I'd hate to be put in a spot where I had limited access to BA, but my phone (which is pretty much always logged in) still showed me as being online, and my trade partner thought something was up. Though, truth be told, I'd probably try to avoid setting up a trade in such a situation, but you know how it goes - some deals you just can't pass up!
As far as the title of the thread, I'm sure there are many more people who just browse the General/Help forum and will notice the title than will click on and actually read the thread to find out the whole story. But that's my $0.02.
Building on this....
It seems that after the mikesgroove debacle (veteran mega-trader who took advantage of multiple people, for those who don't know), we all look over our shoulders a bit, even if we don't want to admit it.
This is just another case of where a feedback page would be helpful. The OP would be able to contact past references, see if this has happened in the past, etc. Feedback would have likely prevented this 4 page thread from every happening. Then, the OP could have left feedback that detailed what happened (delay, but awesome box arrived 2 weeks later).
To summarize this thread....."Blame it on the rain...."
Will wait for massive "likes"
He was a bad trader this month.
... I can't argue this...
Talk about a guy that had the credit, but didn't get the car...
Following the forums isn't necessary though. If you have a phone that can login to BA (and who doesn't nowadays), you can take 30 seconds to respond to a BM to somebody in the middle of a trade with you with something simple like "sorry I'm traveling and bogged down, I'll get back to you this weekend, nothing to worry about". Everybody can find that kind of time, be it in a cab, on the can, right before bed, whatever... and that's literally all it takes to turn your trade partner from nervous into patient.
As a completely new member, I would hope every member here would live by this rule. If I was completing my first trade with a well established trader, and got the treatment the OP got, I would have been contacting, then calling out the trader too. I appreciate getting busy, but don't get into trades if you know your month is busy. Sounds like, in this case, the trader knew his wife's bday, anni, training, etc was coming up.
I am new to the beer community, but very well established in the cigar community. Regardless of my status with the person I'm trading with, each trade is completed ASAP. Again shit happens, but when you know shit is going to happen and you just can't pass up a great deal, do your part.
I'm pretty comfortable in saying at this point most of my initial trades will be IP, just to avoid questioning, plus getting the chance to meet members personally, instead of via BMs.
Separate names with a comma.