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Bad Trader Alert

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by fortsambo, May 29, 2012.

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  1. Ha - no. I merely observed that shitshow from the sidelines. :)
  2. Wow, I just read this thread for the first time. I can't believe that KeefD did that to you. He has been nothing but prompt and generous in my three trades with him. I guess you never know. What beers are you owed?

  3. hophead247

    hophead247 Savant (430) California Jan 27, 2008

    Another BA sent me a message saying that he bailed on a BIF not too long ago. Maybe something happened because I've seen he's been a model BA.

    The boxes were going to be random beers I couldn't get or on my wants....200 ounces I believe.
  4. new can of worms-

    not that this has ever happened to me (all my trades have gone quite well) BUT.....

    what is the protocol for a box that is damaged in shipping? i understand that this can happen for multiple reasons, but for sake of this lets say it was the delivery co's fault (box was packed well) is it the senders responsibility to replace said beer? what if he can't get another one of the agreed upon beer. i have sent beer out that there would be no way of getting another of, and tightly cross my fingers that it arrives in one piece. i always use styro but shit happens right? of course i would try to make it up to them if this happened, but does the blame fall entirely on me? my income is modest and im sure i couldnt afford to replace multiple 750ml bottles of fou foune straight out. should the trade be renegotiated (i send back beer i received-which i would if this happened) or do we both assume the shipping risks and agree that we both loose out a bit? questions? comments? debates? propaganda? what say you fine folks?
  5. mike409

    mike409 Aficionado (200) Michigan Jan 25, 2012

    imo you send back your beerif its carrier error but if its determined the bad pack job was from the other person i say he is out his beers.
  6. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Illinois Nov 23, 2010

    If you can't afford to replace it, don't trade it.
  7. 3rdto1st

    3rdto1st Savant (260) California Dec 1, 2011

    In this situation, you try to work something out to make up for it, if you can't, send the beer back.

    This is why you NEVER open the beer that was sent to you until your package out arrives safely.

    AleWatcher likes this.
  8. BigTomZ

    BigTomZ Savant (315) Virginia Apr 14, 2009

    There is no debate on this one, it is already established. It is always the senders responsibility to make it right if bottles are broken. That is either replacing the bottles, sending back the box you received, or negotiating an alternative. It is completely up to your trade partner if they want to accept an alternative or have you send their bottles back. If you are sending a beer you can't replace, do not drink the beer you receive until you get confirmation from your trade partner that the bottles have arrived safely.
  9. what kind of bourgeois statement is that? so how exactly do you replace say a bottle of m or wooden hell or a 1987 cantillon? i'm no fan of blanket statements, no matter how many "big" traders "like" your post. the world is NEVER black and white.

    i agree and practice the dont open them untill they recieve philosophy and as stated before this has never happened to me, but i couldnt find any "established" rule on this anywere... though i admit i was at work when i posted, and couldnt spend too much time looking. could you post a link to this discussion? or is this an unwritten rule?

    in practice i would definitely make it right if my sent box got damaged, but i would have a hard time asking my trade partner to resend me all this beer again if he was not at error in the situation (shipping co f up) i dont think it fair to him to have to essentially double his trade. and i also think it would be a total DICK move to assume this is what is REQUIRED of him. but im sure im a much nicer guy than some of you... ; )
  10. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Illinois Nov 23, 2010

    No need to get hostile my man. The general consensus around here is that YOU are responsible for making it right if beers break in your box. Whether that constitutes replacing said beers or sending an equal $ amount is up to you and your trade partner.

    By that logic, you'd replace a Wooden Hell or 1987 Cantillon with another Wooden Hell or 1987 Cantillon or a $ amount of said beers that your recipient felt comfortable with (which would likely be high). Again I say, if you can't afford to replace it, don't trade it.
    biglobo8971 likes this.
  11. sorry, i dont mean to come across angry. but my question is more geared toward the impossible replacement. say the guy i trade with ONLY wants said beer. if i only have one of them left then i shouldnt trade it? i know, i know send their box back, but my key phrase here is damage "is the shipping co's fault" ive seen some abused-ass boxes in my time. many of which nothing would have survived in. but i dont think it fair to the sender to have to wholly replace something that was damaged through no fault of his own.
  12. BigTomZ

    BigTomZ Savant (315) Virginia Apr 14, 2009

    As far as something like M or a similarly white whale, just send back the other traders beer.

    As for the discussions about sending beer back. If the old forum were up your quick search would have given you a bunch of results. It was an unwritten rule with, from what I remember, unanimous agreement.

    I have received many questionably packed boxes. With broken bottles, some boxes are returned to sender, some forwarded minus broken bottles, and others confiscated and destroyed. It is at the discretion of the employee who finds the box. So it isn't always possible to really know if it was bad packing or the shipping company.
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  13. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Illinois Nov 23, 2010

    Not saying you shouldn't trade it, but you should be able to accept the risk that it could be broken in transit. I've had stuff break that was double-boxed and packed to survive a nuclear holocaust. I replaced it. If you're accepting the risks involved in trading, accept the idea that you might have to replace/cover for a broken box. No one on here is forcing you to trade...you can always drink your beers you know.
  14. fair enough, i had never seen it stated anywhere so im glad to have gotten some decent input. the lawyer in me just likes to see things on paper i guess. "...you can always drink your beers you know" is my general rule and most of my trading is done IP or with longtime friends so im not worried about it, but its good to know what the general rule is.
    i just noticed i have the right avatar to ask this question too!
  15. BigGene

    BigGene Initiate (0) Florida Oct 30, 2010

    If i was going to send a beer that was near irreplaceable or would be cost prohibitive. I would box it well, pay extra for insurance. Take the box to a fedex store have them double box and pack it. If the box is lost or damaged Fedex with refund waht you paid to them to pack it (16x16x16 box cost me $10 yesterday) and your insurance claim would be paid. You just have to hope that the box doesnt leak. If it does and they see/smell beer all bets are off.
  16. i think i know the answer to this & i'm probably reading this wrong, but it kind of sounds like it's not unheard of to set up a trade based on what one thinks they should be able to obtain/shop for?

    my assumption is that the items discussed in a trade are items physically in the trading party's possession (on both ends).
  17. tewaris

    tewaris Advocate (595) Minnesota Jul 14, 2009

    My first few boxes, I insisted that the other party not ship until my beer arrived safe. E.g. Town Hall limited release growlers, no way I was going to be able to replace that shit. Now I can manage to replace the beer I send. Hope that helps you answer your question.

    Also, everyone is correct in saying that it's your responsibility to make it right.
  18. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Not always but I always ask for clarification. I'm always crystal clear with the other person and assume they aren't with me. I say when I have something and when I've seen it around and need to go shop for it before we can finalize terms but a lot of people just assume they can get it even though they don't have it and don't say anything.
  19. YaKnowBrady

    YaKnowBrady Initiate (0) New Jersey Jul 23, 2010

    Similar shit happened to me in the Super Bowl Squares /IF. I had 2 shippers disappear, although is site crashed and reset about 2 or 3 weeks after the Super Bowl, and these guys took advantage of the opportunity to disappear from the site.

    Whatever though, I walked away with 23 other awesome boxes of beer, so why should I complain?
    hophead247 likes this.
  20. Kaydogg

    Kaydogg Savant (385) Pennsylvania Jan 5, 2011

    you know its really crappy
    I traded with this guy and he is on my reference excel sheet with astriek next to his name.. reason ...it was an incrediably difficult trade to complete.. alot of my brother forgot to ship and other Bullsh*t.. I got my box maybe after 2-3 weeks... he was probably the worst out of 70+ trades.. sorry bro
  21. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Tennessee Mar 31, 2006

    I'm glad you posted this.

    Situations like this are exactly why holding back on calling out bull shit even if a trade does get completed at some point can hurt other traders.

    I'd rather warn the community about a trader like this that makes excuses, renegs from a trade way to late in the process, etc. even if beer is not lost than to let it slide and hope it does not happen again to someone else.

    If there are valid excuses, let them defend themselves and the traders that see the post decide if they want to trade with these people in the future. We have all seen bad trader threads where the OP turns out to be the one at fault and everyone laughs. It is that simple, if you are in the right, call them out.

    All the "You didnt lose beer or you eventually got beer you should not have called them out" mentality is crap and I think is a good part of the reason there are so many cases of bad traders. Not all of course.
    BigTomZ likes this.
  22. dvelcich

    dvelcich Savant (330) Illinois Feb 6, 2008

    Keep in mind that the sender can always make a claim for their losses against the shipping company if it is their fault, so you shouldn't feel bad about asking someone to replace a broken package. It's just a little more work on their part, and next time they'll pack it better.
  23. jegross2

    jegross2 Advocate (715) Illinois Jan 3, 2010

    You sending out a new box with the same beers, or a box of beers that will make up for the lost beer that the other guy approves of.
  24. I'm a patient guy but what bugs me is when people say I'm going to ship tomorrow or Fri at the latest and then constantly move it back. I know the trader will eventually ship but one should make an effort to honor dialogue in the trade. If you say Monday and ship tues or wed, no biggie. If it ends up being 14 days later it's kind of wrong especially when you ship promptly. I'm out of state half the year and I only schedule trades when I'm close to home and can get it out before i leave again. There really should be no excus to spend 10 minutes to package, 2 minutes to print the label and find time during the day to drop off at the million Fedex/Kinkos locations. Heck, I even give mine to the office Fedex guy.
  25. gklover1

    gklover1 Savant (255) Colorado Oct 18, 2009

    I appreciate your frustration. With all the folks around lately that the "pushing off" turns into no box at all, sometimes it can start to stress me out. At the same time, I have had to push back for multiple reasons on rare occasions...as long as the communication is super solid, I can handle that.

    HOWEVER...don't mislead noobs on this packing thing. 10 min?? Are you using all new material EVERY time? I don't know about you, but I don't have access to unlimited funds or the-wife-won't-kill-me-for-my-mess packing area, so I am removing old labels, fitting boxes in boxes when I can...

    I sent out 4 boxes the other day, and it took me 2 hours to pack them. I consistenly get compliments on my packing (humbly, I have seen 10x better, but I do work hard), but the point is I don't want some noob reading "10 minutes to package", and then I end up receiving THAT box.

    No biggie...just clarification.

    If people really can to that effectively, maybe I need some lessons...:eek:
  26. It takes me about 10 minutes to package a box under 7 bottles. I use all sorts of new and used materials but I could care less if it looks great. My bottles don't break but the inside may look ugly. Why would you care if they get there safely?

    I do use 1,3, 6, and 12 bottle shippers which save time. If the bottles are protected and the box packed tight together it should be good. If it's something ridiculously rare that I don't have a replacement it's a different story.
  27. gklover1

    gklover1 Savant (255) Colorado Oct 18, 2009

    Important clarification. I agree with you, totally easy + simple + fast to pack if you have access to a shipper. If not, significantly longer process for a solid pack.
  28. BigGene

    BigGene Initiate (0) Florida Oct 30, 2010

    I spent close to 2 hrs one night last week packing 2 boxes for BIF"s I am in. Growlers, glassware ect. The wife was like WTF are you doing...I'm like making sure this shit doesnt break. "well whoever gets it is gonna be pissed, it will take them an hour to unpack" , exactly I said.
    biglobo8971, fortsambo and csano like this.
  29. Hope you didn't pack it so well the lucky person receiving it gets all Rambo on it and slices through one of the cans and thereby making you feel bad enough to send out another incredible box to make up for it. No lie, I've read about it happening.
  30. BigGene

    BigGene Initiate (0) Florida Oct 30, 2010

    I didnt go all postal on the cans, just padded nicley, the bottles and growlers on the other hand. By the way is Duct Tape ok to use?
  31. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Tennessee Mar 31, 2006

    At least post the link you lazy SOB :)
  32. My bad. :( ;)
    I have to fight the noob within me, it still wins ocassionally.
  33. Only on the growler lids. I've heard E6000 works well too.
  34. Mavajo

    Mavajo Advocate (550) Georgia Feb 10, 2007

    This is bogus, in my opinion. If I trade a King Henry or Rare, I don't have anything else in my cellar commensurate with those beers to replace them. So I'm not allowed to trade them?

    Of course not. If you ship something out and it breaks, and you don't have the capacity to send an equitable replacement -- then just ship the other guys stuff back to him. No harm done. It'd probably also be a courtesy to reimburse his shipping cost and/or toss in an extra as compensation.
  35. stxSS07

    stxSS07 Initiate (0) Illinois Nov 23, 2010

    You must have missed my other posts.

  36. I insure all of my packages based on the auction site prices just in case something happens and I do not have a replacement beer. I sent out a couple BCBS with an insured value of $100. That is a bit over the top but a 4pk is like $75+ on the auction site. Especially with the horror stories I read where a box is lost or kicked around like a soccer ball while in transit.
  37. BigTomZ

    BigTomZ Savant (315) Virginia Apr 14, 2009

    There are horror videos of that.
  38. dan8181 was active on facebook last night asking for pairing suggestions, so i suggested he pair his dinner with this bad trader thread.

    he claimed he had shipped the box and suggested i was an asshole for derailing his thread. :confused: then he deleted the whole thing.

    let's see if op gets a resolution.
  39. Tnudish

    Tnudish Initiate (0) Wisconsin Feb 16, 2012

    LOLOL! That sir, was a solid call back!
  40. Bitterbill

    Bitterbill Poobah (1,135) Wyoming Sep 14, 2002

    You done your best. Good show!
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