Discussion in 'Beer News' started by Zhiguli, Oct 4, 2013.
He didnt mention hate.
TTL you are correct. Don't get your point about that, though.
I believe, in big coastal cities like NYC, 9 out of 10 people don't think craft beer sucks as you stated.
You can keep referencing that, but your comment had NOTHING to do with containers but with drinkers.
Drinkers != Containers.
Well, except for a little while after we drink.
Quoting you from above: "Nine of every ten beer drinkers thinks craft beer sucks"
5+ out of 10 beer drinkers like craft beer. You were wrong. Period.
Thanks for clarifying, again, that I didn't say what I meant, but wouldn't you rather take issue with what I meant
than what I already clarified isn't what I meant?
thanks for the reminder. A few times at GABF's that I've been to in recent years they promote the "cold tasting" theme verbally, and sometimes also boast that they have the coldest beer at the GABF.
Some of these brands listed have higher than a 1% market share in the US. I can get my IRI data tomorrow and double check whichones. I may not be understanding what you're saying though
Another opinion, having to do wiht ABI gobbling up craft breweries and not meeting the million barrel a year quota. I dont think it'd necessarily have to do with not meeting those numbers, just does the breweries in question have the capacity to fill the pipeline needed. Im not sure if people are implying buying out breweies like new belgium, sierra nevada, etc that do or just the run of the mill craft breweries producing great beer but in such small quantities. I understand GI has some of their beers brewed at AB breweries now, but not the big boys. They do have to keep up with their beers being brewed/aged(yes it does 'age' in a tank for about 3 weeks) around the clock which at times they have problems keeping up with those being produced.
Just some of my opinion on it, i think it'd have to be quite a big craft brewery for them to consider a buyout. I do think they will move towards more 'crafty' beers. I sampled the new Project 12 beers that are being released soon and was actually pleased with them. It wouldn't tickle the fancy of most BA's but compared to last years project 12 beers, its definitely shifting more towards a crafty taste. a north pacific lager, a bock and another vanilla cask bean variety like last years
They were copy/pasted from IRI May "Year to Date", C store 2013 data, in order, all with less than 1% of the US market, starting with Bud Light Lime's 0.68% - which put it at 1.1% of AB's sales for the year up to that date. I was not trying to give exact barrelage figures for one minor AB brand over another - my point is that they've got quite a few brands, some regional like Ziegenbock, that sell "only" in the million bbl and under segment.
Or, another way to look at it, the IRI stats list over 65 AB brands and that's hardly all of them. Bud Light and Bud alone account forl a bit under 30% of all the beer in the US, so about 60% of AB's portfolio. With AB hovering at about 50% of the market, that means they've got to have quite a few brands under 1m bbl.
I didnt know you were clarifying anything. Until this post I didnt know you were admitting your mistake. The words "My bad" would have helped.
I have no issue with the statement that 90% of beer purchased isnt craft. Thats just factually true.
But how many of those brands under 1M bbl are on the chopping block? They seem to bring out and quickly dump a number of beers that sell in the 100ks of bbls range.
Well, I quoted you, and replied in plain English, so perhaps those two words you suggest for me might work even better for you
The "plain English" implied that you didnt know the difference between a container and a person.
Here is what I replied, by way of clarifying what I meant but didn't say. I will assume you didn't bother to read it, though I quoted you to draw your attention to it.
"The point is that at least nine of ten containers of beer sold in this country is BMC/non craft, and that is a fact that doesn't change even if there is an occasional Saranac Pale Ale next to it in the fridge."
Oops your bad
While InBev and SAB have not been innovative in recipes, they have added numerous new brands that gobble up shelf space. Batch 19 and Third Shift are now in every liquor store around here, as well as numerous seasonal ShockTop and Leinenkugel's offerings...that is one less space for a true craft beer.
I accept the premise that beers like Batch 19, Third Shift Lager, etc. do indeed occupy space on beer store shelves.
From my perspective, a “winning concept” for the BMC breweries would be the introduction of new products that will result in genuine and sustained beer volume growth. I am not convinced that the new products that have been introduced in the last 2-3 years fulfill that ‘definition’. While ‘boxing out’ craft beer may represent something of interest to the BMC companies, what they really need is new products that will result in something like an increase of overall beer volume growth of x% over the next 5-10 years. For publically traded companies, if you aren’t growing then Wall Street will not reward you.
Just came across this online today about an attempt to get into the craft beer scene by bud. I don't see it working but knew there would be some attempts.
I remember the popularity of those "Bitter beer face" ads from Keystone Light. If only those ad men could have seen they success of IPA's.
“AB InBev, however, may have a bigger strategy. It’s unlikely that artisanal Budweiser will revive the mother brand’s declining sales volume the U.S. The allure of true craft is too strong. But it might persuade younger drinkers to reconsider Budweiser as something other than “industrial” beer, as the craft crowd has labeled it.
Perhaps they’ll get a kick out of this marketing stunt and start consuming Budweiser ironically. There’s nothing wrong with that. Look at what irony did for Pabst Blue Ribbon.”
So, do I have this right: AB is producing 3 new beers because they think it will increase sales of ‘regular’ Budweiser? If this is truly the strategy that the Marketing folks of AB have come up with, then AB is truly in trouble as a business.
Maybe if more people read this: http://beeradvocate.com/articles/248 They would all realize what we all know already. You don't have to sacrifice taste.
Two words. Professional sports. Until that market is opened up in a way that includes naming rights, and exclusive contracts to sell on site. There's a logistical ceiling and it ain't gonna be cracked and do you actually want that audience on your doorstep?
I can see buyouts happening in the near future. I mean these companies might not be for sale now. But a lot of micros are in sort of the first generation of owenership. What happens when some of those owners when they want to retire? I mean a lot of them have established million dollar+ companies, and if they don't have family to hand the companies over to, or if there isn't any kind of employee ownership set up, they are probably going to be sold to the highest bidder. For profitable companies with established brands the highest bidder is probably going to be a larger brewer or an investment/banking type company.
I think this is the most level-headed way to look at it (although using those arbitrary numbers the craft drinkers would number about 30,000). There is also a lot of crossover though that flies under the radar. A lot of people who enjoy craft beer also still enjoy an american lager from one of the big guys from time to time (and vice-versa).
I've said this before here but it bears repeating - in business terms craft breweries are not seen as a "threat" by the big brewers (yet). The increase in sales of spirits, however, is. It's the generation of people 25-35 that are starting to buy more spirits and less beer that's the more concerning issue.
In other news, you'll see ABI putting out some beers more in line with what US craft beer drinkers prefer in the coming years, and not hidden under an obscure label. The thing that most of you are missing here is that the changes in styles that occurred in American beer the previous century were driven primarily by the customers. People asked for light beers. There is a misconception (driven in large part, I think, intentionally by some marketing from Jim Koch) that Anheuser-Busch, Miller, and Coors (and at at time, Strohls, etc.) foisted light beer on people against their will. In a lot of ways it was the other way around. Now people are asking for hoppier beers (which makes me very happy). As brewers, we want to make what people want.
If a craft brewery were to fall into the "cheap and easy" trap and start lowering their quality to cater to the "drink as much as possible as quickly as possible" crowd, then there are literally hundreds of others that will step up to fill the gap. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over mass-marketing ruining the craft hobby
Along with spirits I think another big threat is people giving up beer all together or severely decreasing the amount of beer they drink is probably a big threat (possibly as big as the threat of competition from smaller breweries). I mean people watching what they eat or drink has always been a thing, but when low carb dieting took off brewers probably took a hit from that. Otherwise they would not have introduced those low carb beers. At least in Canada those got a huge push. Way more than any big brewer attempt at craft beer ever has.
I started running and watching what i eat(not dieting, doesn't work for me) in june and I've lost almost 25 lbs. One thing I said I wouldn't do was stop drinking beer, that was not an option, and I still managed to lose the weight.
I imagine that another hit the big guys are taking is because of how changes to DUI laws. In parts of Canada you can get a roadside suspension if you blow over .05 BAC. I know for my dad and a lot of his friends, this means then when they go out it is now just 1 beer a night. And I imagine this effects the big guys more since traditionally if you are at a bar and you are drinking bud you are probably going to order a bunch compared to if you are drinking something with more flavour that costs more (where you might only have 1 to begin with).
Here's some facts:
For the month of October (yes, not all the trucks have returned, but not much will change), the craft portfolio will edge out domestic at my MillerCoors distributor 25.8% to 24.8% in terms of revenue. That is huge.
A sales rep that calls on retail accounts? credibility = 0%.
Another anecdote: SN is with the A-B house in my area, but with the MC house across the bay. Many of these like BBC/SN/etc may tend to one of the two, but will go with the other in other circumstances. It's not cut n' dried.
FYI - hostile takeovers are not doable unless the company is public.
Simply put, the big brewers are jealous of the craft brewing success. The big guys know they missed out on something by sticking their heads in the sand, similar to the way U.S. automakers dismissed foreign competition as not being a viable competitor. Now it seems the bigh brewers are approaching panic stage after trying their usual tried and true [and no longer effective] marketing techniques with little or no positive results.
As for big brewers buying up small brewers - Chicken Little was wrong. As far as I'm aware, Goose Island has not overtaken the shelves and coolers due to being owned by ABInBev and there hasn't been a flood of craft brewers lining up to sell out to the highest bidder.
But beware, this is capitalism and don't think the big brewers will EVER give up trying.
And you know Blue Moon is worrying craft when thier industry cheerleader goes on a PR compain to smear them as crafty.
Post of the day right there...
Less effective? You mean you guys didn't go out and buy cases of Miller Lite once they introduced that sweet new punch-top can? It does make drainpours much quicker, I'll give 'em that.
I assume you're being sarcastic since kudos has no concept of how a hostile takeover works.
ahahaha. Obviously. Thanks for the laugh.
How is Redd's possibly doing well with women? It's like a cross between an apple jolly rancher and cough syrup mixed with soda water. Even "women" who like lighter beers can't possibly like that crap. Sorry, the section in this article really bugged me. As a woman I don't mind good looking girls in commercials; it seems sexist to assume that all women will only go for the fruity crap available. For the record, my buyer for a sister store is a guy, and HE brought in Redds because HE liked it-- and it's a total dog! You couldn't pay people to take it off the shelves. I warned him... The point is, maybe instead of segmenting out "women" as a market, they should just make better products to start with.
The craft aisle in my store keeps getting bigger. The only area in the store that they seem to a leg up on is the 12 pack aisle where Kona, Redhook and Widmer and Leinie dominate square footage.
Separate names with a comma.