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Cantillon classic gueze same thing as cantillon bio gueze?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by jsm1289, Jan 29, 2013.

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  1. jsm1289

    jsm1289 Aficionado (185) New York Mar 11, 2011

    Having some difficulty figuring this one out Completed a trade with a very nice fellow thinking I was getting Cantillon classic gueze http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/388/1703 and instead got http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/388/11888 . Now rate beer has them as the same thing and my trading partner believes them to be the same thing as well. Maybe one is a euro version one is an american version? Different labels, different ratings ( on BA) but still a cantillon gueze .

    Can anyone clarify this?

  2. LambicKing

    LambicKing Advocate (675) Florida Apr 13, 2011

  3. stealth

    stealth Advocate (680) Minnesota Dec 16, 2011 Verified

    I understood the Bio version to be the US version, or the other way around? but they are the same
  4. ColdPoncho

    ColdPoncho Savant (465) Ohio Jan 9, 2009

    This beer does not meet US standards for organic labeling, but does in Europe, so yes, they are the same. They can market it as bio (organic) in Europe, not here, so they call it something else (classic). This is my understanding

  6. Ive come to understand they are the same. I thought that the Classic label was the older label and the Bio label was new since they switched to organic malt/ingredients but im not sure.

    Curious what Jean would have to say
  7. jsm1289

    jsm1289 Aficionado (185) New York Mar 11, 2011

    so wouldnt that mean the classic version would be more readily available than the bio gueze version in the US?
  8. in theory, yes, since the classic version is the one shipped here, but lot's of websites in Belgium ship beer to the US. i.e. all of my gueuze bottles are the bio version
  9. jsm1289

    jsm1289 Aficionado (185) New York Mar 11, 2011

    so my next question is why the different ratings? bio gueze is only a 93 and classic is a 98?
  10. UCLABrewN84

    UCLABrewN84 Poobah (1,440) California Mar 18, 2010 Verified

    American BAs inflate scores?
  11. Same goodness
  12. Blanco

    Blanco Advocate (535) Pennsylvania Oct 11, 2008 Verified

    So to be clear, Classic Gueuze, Gueuze 100% Lambic and Gueuze 100% Lambic Bio are all the same beer?

    BA has the first two connected as aliases, but the third separated. Maybe they should be merged.
  13. A few things I have noticed

    1. People have posted picture of bio gueuze that was purchased stateside. People have claimed to have purchased bio stateside.

    2. Classic uses a darker green glass bottle where as the bio uses the clearer green style that I've noticed in every other 'loon. I've had these: (Bio - March 16, 2010) (Classic - March 17, 2010). Obviously the same batch but bottled a day apart. Why the change in glass bottles though!? Perhaps this is an isolated incident and they get different bottle batches, but in the 10 or so beers I've had from them, 2 have been this darker green...both were Classic's. The label is also a departure from the standard Cantillon label layout and font scheme.
    dachshunddude86 likes this.
  14. tai4ji2x

    tai4ji2x Advocate (615) Massachusetts Aug 10, 2007 Verified

    this topic came up every now and then in the old forums. people have tried to get the entries merged messaging the bros or using the "report an update" function, but it seems it's not a high priority for them.
    beercules101 likes this.
  15. tai4ji2x

    tai4ji2x Advocate (615) Massachusetts Aug 10, 2007 Verified

    i currently have "classic" (usa version) with both dark green glass and lighter/clear green glass. different batches.
    beercules101 likes this.
  16. Heh, well that answers that then. Thanks!
  17. Same exact beer, different labels. The batches are going to be bottled at different times and they ship a high percentage, more than %50, to the US but they are the exact same beer. I don't understand the lazy excuse for not doing the job of merging the two beers on here.
  18. Cozzatoad

    Cozzatoad Savant (295) Italy Feb 2, 2011

    Same beer, different labels for different countries. I've reported it twice and never even got an answer
  19. merc7186

    merc7186 Savant (360) New York Dec 5, 2010

    Myself and several other BAs did a side by side of Classic Gueuze and Bio Gueuze (both 2010 versions) and the group consensus was the Classic Gueuze was better. The Bio versions seemed to be a little lighter in color and had a slightly different taste.
    Jeffboyardee123 likes this.
  20. tai4ji2x

    tai4ji2x Advocate (615) Massachusetts Aug 10, 2007 Verified

    unless they were bottled within days of each other and this comparison is done blind, this is too subjective to be definitive. batches and handling conditions can vary. jean van roy has personally stated several times that they are indeed the same beer, save for the aforementioned variations.
    shyhenry and sliverX like this.
  21. Same beer. Topic has been discussed a billion times. Bros won't merge them for whatever reason. The end.
    oldp0rt likes this.
  22. Monsone

    Monsone Savant (370) Illinois Jun 5, 2006

    This is exactly what I was told at Cantillon. It is exactly the same stuff, just a different label for sale in different countries.
    LambicPentameter likes this.
  23. crusian

    crusian Advocate (665) Oregon May 14, 2010 Verified

    So, back to the different scores then...
  24. drummermattie02

    drummermattie02 Advocate (695) Texas May 10, 2009 Verified

    I'm guessing it's because Americans hype the shit out the loons.
    tai4ji2x likes this.
  25. crusian

    crusian Advocate (665) Oregon May 14, 2010 Verified

    my guess too... really really sad people.
  26. This!

    Also the same reason why the beers have the poppy on them in Europe (organic symbol) but not in the U.S. Labeling something as organic is excessively complicated in the U.S. and requires a significant amount of licensing to be approved and Cantillon is not per se organic in the U.S.
  27. drtth

    drtth Poobah (1,060) Pennsylvania Nov 25, 2007

    I'd suggest it has much more to do with the availability of the beer and lack of others of the same style to compare it with.

    In the US to find a bottle of Cantillon on the shelf any more anywhere is a surprise and mostly good luck, and access to many other of the well known imported gueuzes is restricted or similarly non-existent (I know stores that haven't seen Drie Fonteinen in 3 years.)

    However, if I visit the right places in Belgium or the Netherlands, on the menu I can find 6 to 12 different gueuzes to choose from, including different vintages that are priced in a range I can afford. So over the course of a week or 10 day visit, if I choose to, I can drink Boon, Girardin Black, Drie Fonteinen, Cantillon, Mort Subite, etc., etc. including things that are not to be seen in the States such as De Cam and other small breweries that never make it out Europe. Thus I have more different beers to compare it to in a shorter time frame and at a lower price in Europe than I do in the US.
    LambicPentameter likes this.
  28. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    I just bought a bio gueuze from an American store last weekend. They had the Belgian RdG too, with 3 languages on the back label. That was odd.

    As for the different score, the rAvg is 4.45 for Classic and 4.2 for bio, both with stDev's of around 10%. In what world are those massively different scores? It's perfectly possible for the same exact thing to have different scores driven by purely statistical fluctuations, especially when your underlying data is as noisy as beer reviews. I'd want to see a difference that's larger than that before jumping to conclusions about score inflation, etc.
    LambicPentameter likes this.
  29. tai4ji2x

    tai4ji2x Advocate (615) Massachusetts Aug 10, 2007 Verified

    sounds a bit shady, if it was a recent batch. to my knowledge, shelton brothers are the exclusive importers to the USA. any other bottles would technically be illegal to sell since it didn't go through the 3-tier system. (i believe only a few isolated places like DC are the only exceptions)
  30. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    No, they had it along with a few other things, including last year's Fou Foune (wtf?). This isn't the kind of place that would buy it on BiaB or whatever, it's a grocery store. I think Cantillon just sent some weird stuff on accident and Shelton passed it along. But I'm quite, quite sure it was from Shelton since every place in the East Bay got ~the same stuff at ~the same time. It seems like this one place got the few weird cases.
  31. I don't think these bottle differences are as systematic as people think they are. Cantillon is an old-school operation, and they kind of just use whatever bottles and labels they can get their hands on. Obviously, they have to be a bit uniform on the labels, as certain countries have requirements for which labeled beers are approved to be sold where, but here's a few things I've noticed from my years of Cantillon-whoring:

    1. Two boxes of fou-foune from the exact same year (and even the same bottling date): some where in green bottles, some were in more clear-ish bottles.
    2. Classic gueuze from two different batches from the same year, some had the clown-label cap on them, others had blank labels.
    3. St. Lamvinus labels are all over the place. I've amassed a pretty substantial vertical, and they have remarkably different labels: some are yellow, some are white, some bottles have foil over the cap. I thought these were consistent by year, until I found some of the newer bottlings (which usually have yellow labels) which white labels on them instead.

    Last year, some folks in Belgium even reported getting a 2010 100% Gueuze Bio with the old-schools 90s "pissing man" label. The cork was 2010, and the back-label was a modern one with a bottled on date of 2010; however, whoever was labeling the beer apparently found some old labels and threw them on there instead.
  32. Blanco

    Blanco Advocate (535) Pennsylvania Oct 11, 2008 Verified

    Yeah, it's funny because I've noticed so much variation particularly when they come in from overseas, that I was initially concerned they were fakes (subsequent taste tests showed proved they were authentic). Seems to be the case with a lot of breweries in belgium.
  33. emerge077

    emerge077 Poobah (1,010) Illinois Apr 16, 2005

    The US import label used to look like this:


    The yellow "Classic Gueuze" label started appearing in 2006 or so, and the one above disappeared. This was supposedly due to the increased cost of being a certified organic product by the USDA, so the above US import label was discontinued. All Cantillon lambic is currently organic, just not labeled as such in the US.
  34. Loganyoung

    Loganyoung Savant (290) Georgia Jul 16, 2011 Verified

    This answered my question perfectly. I just scored 2 gueuze bio's and 2 krieks online from across the pond and was wondering what it was the difference. The two different scores really threw me off.
    Thanks guys, cheers
  35. Jonada

    Jonada Advocate (575) New Jersey May 23, 2012 Verified

    I've ordered beer online from Belgium a few times and I've always been disappointed that the classic gueuze wasn't available. I guess this resolves that issue for me.
  36. smartassboiler

    smartassboiler Advocate (740) Illinois Apr 9, 2012 Verified

    For reference I'm talking this:


    vs. this:


    From what I can recall, I've had both, and I enjoyed the original better than the 100% Bio. The Bio had been moved to the Archived area under Cantillon at one point, which confused me, but it looks to have been moved back to the Current area.

    I see a good amount of the 100% Bio around on the sites that offer Cantillon online, but I cannot remember seeing the other version ever available. Trappistworld just a while ago had the "Belgian Flag" edition, but I'm not sure which version that label variation is?

    What's the reason for there being a decent bit of the Bio available, but not the Original? Are they not making the Original anymore? Do they not make it as often? Just looking a little history on it and what to expect in the near future. Thanks!
  37. WGSBeer

    WGSBeer Disciple (65) Ohio Jun 14, 2011

    My understanding is that it can't be sold as organic in the states so it has a different label. Same beer.
  38. Pahn

    Pahn Champion (815) New York Dec 2, 2009 Verified

    this. it's different standards for the organic label / not wanting to bother with testing and such in the USA since they already have label approval (and what's the difference?).
    drtth likes this.
  39. smartassboiler

    smartassboiler Advocate (740) Illinois Apr 9, 2012 Verified

    Thanks guys. Maybe they'll get merged on here to avoid confusion.
  40. wyatt

    wyatt Savant (355) Louisiana Nov 18, 2009 Verified

    This topic has been brought up over and over again and they have never been merged. I doubt this will cause them to be merged either.
    cavedave likes this.
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