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Cry Havoc - anyone lager with this yeast?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by atomeyes, Dec 30, 2012.

  1. atomeyes

    atomeyes Member

    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    My friend and I brewed an IPA with this. after 2 weeks of continuous fermentation at 55 F, our gravity's dropped from 1.062 to 1.030.
    We thought we would ferment it at the low end of the yeast's spectrum to try to get a different flavour, but now we're a little nervous about how long it is taking.

    Anyone have experience with this yeast? It is still bubbling away and we're aiming for it to hit 1.015. The Krauzen already dropped a day ago.

    Thoughts?
  2. kjyost

    kjyost Member

    Location:
    Manitoba (Canada)
    I'd warm it up now, kind of like a D-rest...
  3. atomeyes

    atomeyes Member

    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    howsabout the issue of it sitting on a yeast cake for too long?
    we dry hopped it today and fermentation kind of (visibly) sparked up. just worried that 2 weeks on the yeast plus 2 weeks dry hop may screw with the flavours.
  4. cmac1705

    cmac1705 Member

    Location:
    Florida
    Definitely warm it up.

    As far as being on the yeast, if it were 2 months rather than 2 weeks we might have a debate. And even then, I'm not sure I'd worry. Neither should you.
    MrOH, JrGtr, kjyost and 2 others like this.
  5. dfernandez77

    dfernandez77 Member

    Location:
    California
    2 weeks at 55f, no problem being on that yeast a little longer.

    A diacetyl rest can't hurt. If you want to transfer it off the majority of the yeast, that's cool. Just make sure you transfer enough of the yeast to secondary for it to keep working.

    Leave it a week at 68f or so with the hops. 68 is ok for that yeast. Cold crash and transfer again off the yeast and hops. If you want to lager or cold condition it, fine. Add a smidge of your dry hop addition 3 days before bottling or kegging.
  6. pweis909

    pweis909 Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    You said fermentation "sparked up." Is it possible that all you saw was a release of dissolved CO2 "sparked" sparked by the addition of hops? If you using air bubbles as an indicator of fermentation, you are probably being misled.
    jlpred55 likes this.
  7. VikeMan

    VikeMan Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Racking to a secondary when only at 52% apparent attenuation? I disagree. Not cool.
  8. atomeyes

    atomeyes Member

    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    don't know. it is at my co-brewer's house.
    regardless, we've moved it to warmer temps.
    we thought we'd ferment at 55 F to try to get lager-like flavours. any thoughts on this with this yeast?
  9. pweis909

    pweis909 Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Something escaped me when I first looked at this. You are using a lager yeast, fermenting at lager temps, to make a 1.062 OG beer. This is almost bock strength. The Mr Malty pitching calculator suggests a 5L starter assuming 1 pack of fresh yeast continuously aerated on a stir plate. That's a lot of yeast. Granted, many homebrewers feel this is an overestimate of the amount of yeast you would need. However, the point I want to make is that it is easy to underpitch a big lager and end up with an underattenuated beer. Did you pitch a lot of yeast?

    edit: assuming 5 gal batch
  10. dfernandez77

    dfernandez77 Member

    Location:
    California
    I meant after it has attenuated properly. I did recommend another week at near ale temp before racking this one. Cry Havoc is a blended yeast, and he's already added dry hops so this is a tricky one. I would also recommend swirling the yeast up into suspension, but I don't know what kind of vessel is being used.
  11. atomeyes

    atomeyes Member

    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    glass carboy
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Not a blended yeast. It is a lager strain that apparently does well at ale temperatures. You could think of it as a hybrid yeast (not in a biological sense but in a functional sense, as Cal common and Kolsch strains are sometimes called hybrids). Nevertheless, it is a single strain and not a blend of strains.
  13. dfernandez77

    dfernandez77 Member

    Location:
    California
    Rousing the yeast will probably help. It will also help get aromatics from the yeast into the beer. Search up how to swirl a glass carboy safely. Give it a few days at the warmer temp. Check the gravity. Follow my other recommendations if you like. Clean and sanitize well.
  14. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    You are correct. Papazian has said he used for years to make homebrew, and the lab tech in CO admitted to him that it was isolated from a keg of Bud. The irony.
  15. pweis909

    pweis909 Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Actually, I am in error on a technical point. Saccharomyces pastorianus is a hybrid strain a very biological sense (all lager yeasts are biological hybrids): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lager_yeast

    Still, Cry Havoc contains one strain, which Papazian reputedly managed to maintain cleanly for decades.
  16. dfernandez77

    dfernandez77 Member

    Location:
    California
    Technically correct, hybrid not blend. Though it behaves somewhat like a blend. I've used it and blends for Baltic and Robust Porters over 25 or so years of brewing. I tend to shortcut responses when answering from the iPhone. :D
  17. VikeMan

    VikeMan Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    What blends are you talking about?
  18. atomeyes

    atomeyes Member

    Location:
    Ontario (Canada)
    blend of a lager and ale yeast, i think he is saying.
    not a blend or 2 types of yeasts
  19. JrGtr

    JrGtr Member

    Location:
    Massachusetts
    I used Cry Havoc for an ale - an IPA (dark, with percent of smoked malt) and it fermented out great at low - mid 60's. left it in for 3 weeks, went from 1.060 to 1.012 and dropped out clear.
    IIRC, the vial didn't say anything about lager temps.
  20. dfernandez77

    dfernandez77 Member

    Location:
    California
    I often use two yeasts in different beers. For example if I don't want an overwhelming Belgian character I will use a Belgian yeast with Safale US-05. Both ale yeasts, but less funky than using all Belgian. Or forex a big Robust Porter I may use Saflager S-23 with Safale US-05 and start the fermentation at high lager temps, then crank it up to ale temp for some fruity esters and a real effective diacetyl rest.
  21. VikeMan

    VikeMan Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Ah, okay. I thought you might be talking about some sort of commercially available ale/lager yeast blends (which to my knowledge, do not exist) and confusing that with 'hybrid' strains/styles (like Cali Common or Kolsch strains), which are not really hybrids at all. (Except insofar as the lager species/subspecies may have originally resulted from a rare hybridization.)
  22. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    This one is ale and lager.
    http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/strains_wlp080.html
  23. dfernandez77

    dfernandez77 Member

    Location:
    California
    Yup. Cream ale yeasts are a blend of lager and ale strains.
  24. VikeMan

    VikeMan Member

    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    I wasn't aware of the WLP080 blend. Is there another? Traditionally, Cream Ales were not brewed with a blend. They were brewed by ale brewers, originally intended to compete with lagers. Some used ale strains. Some used lager strains. But AFAIK they did not blend. Unless someone has a reference otherwise.
  25. hopfenunmaltz

    hopfenunmaltz Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    I agree with that, they would use what they had on hand.

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