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Dark Lord Day 2012 Rule Changes

Discussion in 'US - Great Lakes' started by Lansman, Mar 2, 2012.

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  1. Lansman

    Lansman Savant (400) Illinois Mar 19, 2011

    On the FFF Dark Lord Day site, they have commented that they are going to take the 'successful ideas from XV' to better DLD 2012. From what I have heard (I did not go to XV, instead opting to go to FoBAB in November), nothing about XV was run well, and it was an unpleasant experience to those I have talked to who chose XV over FoBAB.

    So my questions are these - 1) What 'good' ideas could come out of XV that would better DLD 2012? and 2) Why are they eliminating coolers and chairs for DLD 2012?

    Dark Lord Day has long been a great place to trade and share rare and good beer with local beer geeks, make some new friends and acquaintances, etc. While the suggestions from the comments on the DLD site for people to bring small coolers are a step in the right direction, due to the lack of other amenities available at the event in the past, the goal of both trading and have a few beers to share (as well as eat food) while at the event makes this very difficult to achieve without a larger size cooler, no?

    It can be argued that the only thing properly organized and well-planned in the recent past was the allocation and distribution of Dark Lord. Outside that, the layout has been simply atrocious when it comes to food, outside beer vendors, etc. Not only were the lines winding throughout the parking lot the equivalent of maybe a quarter mile long, all the outside beer was located in one place and one place only, generating one huge traffic jam as lines merged and people could hardly move.

    If the point is to get people to come in, get the beer, and leave, then FFF should be congratulated because that will likely happen faster with people a) not being able to sit down and b) their being tired of waiting in huge lines for beer, food, or to get inside the pub. I haven't seen any response by FFF to the questions people have been asking about the rule changes - any insight on this would be very welcome!
  2. sacullen

    sacullen Aficionado (245) Illinois Oct 14, 2008

    The reason I cheer the no coolers/no chairs rule is last year's DLD was a major pain in the ass to move around. People would set up camp, taking up very large areas, and create traffic jams. Then they would leave their camp and simply leave one person to claim the space. It got to be really annoying when it would take minutes to walk 20-30 feet, only to find a ring of 10 coolers, 10 chairs, and 1 person blocking the way.
    andrewfletcher and Lukafer like this.
  3. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    I was able to move around just fine and I'm a pretty big guy.

    There wont be enough seating, I just about guarantee it. Then people will sit on the ground causing the same back ups.
    robwestcott likes this.
  4. camil1mj

    camil1mj Savant (405) Michigan Oct 4, 2010

    I have not been to DLD, but I did go to XV. There were a lot of things I think could have been better about XV, but the no cooler and chairs rule was not one of them. It worked great. I was able to bring a few beers in a backpack (instead of a cooler) to trade. Also, without coolers and chairs there was plenty of room to move about the grounds. Lastly, even though trading and sharing beer is a great bi-product of DLD, it is not why FFF's puts the event on. They have no obligation to us as fans to ensure the event is set up for ideal beer trading and sharing.
    FlssmrBrewAlum likes this.
  5. Lansman

    Lansman Savant (400) Illinois Mar 19, 2011

    Totally understand this part, and I agree that this isn't the reason why the event is held. However, I'm not sure how it worked at XV, but part of the reason for small to medium size coolers being nice to have is for purposes of eating something there instead of waiting in lines the entire time like at a beer festival (which isn't what this event is either) for food or anything else. The best part of DLD in the past was not worrying about having to wait in line for an hour to maybe try to get a taste of beer X. While you certainly could do that, you didn't have to, which added to the great camaraderie of the event. Without the ability to bring much of anything in, you will still have the problem of one person 'holding down the fort' of a large swath of space while everyone else waits in line somewhere.
  6. I love how people complain that 3F is doing what they want with their event. If you disagree with their choices so much then don't go. Im tired of beek geeks thinking they run these breweries. Better yet if you have all these great ideas, open a brewery, have an event and show them up. Oh wait it's way easier to just sit on forums and complain.
  7. right on !

    i'm tired of beek geeks too. they don't know jack about beer.
  8. Lansman

    Lansman Savant (400) Illinois Mar 19, 2011

    Geez - wasn't expecting that kind of response. Just asking the question to understand if there was something I was missing with regard to the elimination of these things because I didn't see the problem for having them last year. My apologies.
  9. better not to apologize. the "i love how people complain..." post was just a typical knee jerk response to any complaint, constructive or otherwise, whatsoever about a three floyds event.

    feel free to complain and feel free to shout praises to the rooftops too. its an open forum as far as i know.

    i was at DLD '11 and the XV party. i was fine with the way both were run. personally, i had no issues whatsoever. DLD '11 was smoother of course, and i had no issues with the chairs and coolers and found it easy to get around. but then again, if i remember correctly there were 6000 people in a relatively small space, so i didnt really have any reason to expect it would be easy to get around, did i ? the XV party wasn't as issue either, as long as you got there early. the late arrivals though, yeah, they have cause to complain.
  10. It wasn't a "typical reaction", it was my reaction. I am entitled to it just as someone can complain. I just see this post devolving quickly into the same thing every 3F event post does. I had an amazing time at the XV part, mostly because I planned ahead. These events are what you make them. Also Rob, beer geeks don't know jack about running an event like this.. I said nothing about their knowledge of beer itself. Please don't use the ole Red Herring fallacy on me.
    ObeMaltKinobee and ShogoKawada like this.
  11. Steimie

    Steimie Initiate (0) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    This isn't going to end well...

    Happy Friday everyone :D
  12. what red herring fallacy ? in your original post you were talking about beeK geeks, not beeR geeks.

    but kudos to you for planning ahead for XV - and that's the moral to the story. get there early and the problems are someone else's.
  13. JakeT469

    JakeT469 Savant (270) Illinois Jan 13, 2012

    As far as the large cooler and chair thing goes, its all fair game while waiting in line to get in. Its when u get in the gate that they dont want them so take ur coolers, chairs etc back to the car b4 u go in. I would share/trade most of ur beers while in line and bring a backpack with a few select brews and some food for when u get in. Also, a simple solution to the over crowding at DLD, instead of selling 5000+ tix sell half that. I could go on forever on this so 1 more thought and im done. Like they did for XV, sell half the tix at the brewpub b4 the online sale date. Trying to get tix online every year annoys/pisses me off every time. Ok im done. CHEERS!!
    Prager62 likes this.
  14. I went to the XV party and I was not one of the people that got there early. The line wait was long, but it was a nice day so we didn't mind all that much. there was plenty of sharing and trading going on so I don't think that will change. Once inside we found a seat at one of the tables rather easily. It got a little crowded with the beer lines inside the tent and with people trying to walk around, but nothing too bad. The food was over priced and not that great, but that was to be expected. This was my first vist to 3F's so I don't have past experiences to form any other opinion. I won't be going to DLD, but one of these days I will.
  15. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    If they want to have 10,000 people showing up from around the country, they better keep the bottle share aspect.
  16. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Advocate (705) Illinois Mar 17, 2009

    Hopefully they sell some tickets at the BrewPub this year like they did with XV. That worked awesome and let true locals avoid the internet hysteria.
    qwertyiop, dvelcich, Rempo and 3 others like this.
  17. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    This was definitely the best aspect of the anniversary party. They better do it again. In fact, I hope they sell 75% of the tickets out of the brewpub.
  18. JakeT469

    JakeT469 Savant (270) Illinois Jan 13, 2012

    Totally agree Sean. Im really hoping that is something they change this year. That would b my only gripe about DLD.
  19. Maybe it's not why they put it on, but it's a big reason why it's as big as it is and a big reason that people come from all over for it. I've been three times, and without the bottle sharing aspect of it I'm not sure if I'll bother dealing with the ticketing system that will inevitably crash as well as figuring out a way to get down there and back. I think they could put a limit on cooler size and that would be fine (the freaking gigantor coolers people would bring were kind of ridiculous) but a flat-out ban will remove what has become the best part of Dark Lord Day for I'd guess the majority of people who aren't either there to pick up Dark Lord to sell on eBay or there primarily for the concert. Last year I got a taste from a huge bottle (I think a Jeraboam) of 1999 Hair of the Dog Adam. There's no other event I've been to where people break out stuff like that and happily share it with random people who ask for a taste, and it really builds the community atmosphere there. If it's just about waiting in line to get in and waiting in line for Dark Lord and waiting in line for guest drafts and waiting in line for other beers and waiting in line for the brewpub I think it will lose a lot of what I thought made the event enjoyable even in the years when FFF had (in some cases royally) screwed up logisitics somehow.

    Bottom line: 2011 DLD wasn't broken, while the XV party had a farkton of complaints. Why the hell would they want to make DLD more like the XV party?
  20. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Advocate (705) Illinois Mar 17, 2009

    Fo sho, homie...How many out of the 2500 did they sell at the BrewPub? 800?
  21. EseLocoSS

    EseLocoSS Savant (310) Illinois Feb 2, 2010

    I heard from one of the Floyds bartenders that this will not be happening.
    The reason they sold tickets at the pub for the Anny Party was because that was primarily a party for the locals so they wanted the locals to be able to secure tickets.
    They said that Dark Lord Day is an event for everyone around the country so it is better off to sell tickets online only.
    Hopefully this isn't true and they do end up selling some portion of tickets at the pub.
  22. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Advocate (705) Illinois Mar 17, 2009

    That would seriously blow.
  23. Khazadum

    Khazadum Savant (395) Illinois Apr 29, 2010

    Dark Lord Day has a CULTURE of trading and bringing outside beers, but that isn't the intention of the release. If you want to have a huge tasting with coolers and chairs, do it at your house.

    I like the idea of just bringing in my backpack that I can easily carry 6-12 bottles in and some glassware. Still can do your major tasting, and enjoy DLD without the traffic jams. If its the rapid fire trading you want to do, do it at your car or in the huge ass line outside before the event. Simple solution.
    beersis81, pschul4 and camil1mj like this.
  24. RTrain12

    RTrain12 Savant (395) Illinois Feb 6, 2010

    This does blow. What other brewery sells tix on the internet for a beer release? Where's the love for the locals?
  25. JakeT469

    JakeT469 Savant (270) Illinois Jan 13, 2012

    Sean: they sold 700 tix at the pub for XV and the rest online the day after. If they sell 5000 tix for DLD every year i think they can help out the locals and sell at least 1000 at the pub. I dont think thats askin too much. Just my opinion tho.
    beertunes, EricCioe and EseLocoSS like this.
  26. Kayn169

    Kayn169 Aficionado (235) Illinois Jan 9, 2011

    Positive ideas from XV could be:

    -Selling some tickets at the brewery for the locals, prior to web
    -Tent with a table designated for each outside brewery, rather than one for everything.
    -And yes, no big coolers and chairs. Is it comfy? Hell yes, is it disruptive and space consuming? Again hell yes

    Remember, you can always bring chairs and coolers to use in line. Then just take then to the car before you go in. Easy.
    EricCioe and aasher like this.
  27. phisigben

    phisigben Savant (345) Kentucky Jan 8, 2009

    I spoke with Barnaby at the Winter Brewers Guild tasting in Indianapolis, he said the original idea for XV was to let anyone with a ticket in to see the concert or grab a drink but then have a separate area for the line so people could get their Baller Stout. If I remember correctly he said there was a communication error between FFF and whoever was responsible for the ID checking. IMO what they should have done was not fence the area off that snakes around the building but card people as the enter the rear of the brewery and in the front over near the tents.
  28. DogfishJoe

    DogfishJoe Savant (460) Ohio Feb 14, 2010

    stupid question but do you have to have a paypal acct to buy tickets for this online?
  29. no paypal. just credit card.
  30. aasher

    aasher Champion (900) Indiana Jan 27, 2010

    The anniversary party went well. Why do people who didn't attend the event get to say that it wasn't run well if they didn't go? We got there early, shared beer with cool people, and waited for the gates to open. People didnt plan well enough.
    robwestcott likes this.
  31. phisigben

    phisigben Savant (345) Kentucky Jan 8, 2009

    I got there at noon and wasn't in the gate till 4:30-5, half way through all I wanted to do was just go inside get some food, use a bathroom, and grab a beer. But because of the line situation you couldn't just get in and have some beers without waiting in line for Baller.
  32. aasher

    aasher Champion (900) Indiana Jan 27, 2010

    Well the lack of time slots didn't help. A lot of people go there early to guarantee that they got bottles they wanted. This made it tougher for the later crowd.
  33. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) California Dec 31, 2008

    The Bruery for BT release party and BT bottles.

    As long as they make it that the person buying bottles has to attend/pick up the bottles then this still benefits locals as it is easier for them to get there.

    With that said, I don't see why they cannot do both. Sell 75% of tickets online and 25% at the pub.
  34. phisigben

    phisigben Savant (345) Kentucky Jan 8, 2009

    See that's the thing I wanted to experience the party I didn't care if I guaranteed myself one of the "special" releases. I was under the impression that the event was a party that also had a beer release along with it, not like DLD.
  35. I'd be curious to see how this would work as a silent release. Tell people that it'll be sometime in April and let the inevitable tsunami transpire. And better yet, to edeter the price gouging by the Craigslist, Ebay crowd, jack up the price to 40 per bottle.

    It would never happen, but as a social experiment, it'd be great to see.
  36. awdturboiv

    awdturboiv Advocate (510) Indiana May 24, 2008

    Anyone who frequents the brew pub knows the bartenders and wait staff know absolutely nothing about beer releases, events, or anything else brewery side related. I hope this happens again.
    KingBiscuit and hansgruber like this.
  37. Kayn169

    Kayn169 Aficionado (235) Illinois Jan 9, 2011

    If you think about it, people who got there early enough to have no problems, also waited in line for hours, for the gates to open. I don't think it is reasonable at an even like this, to expect to just get right in. Small place+lots of people= waiting.
  38. TapeDeck

    TapeDeck Aficionado (240) Illinois Mar 31, 2011

    I was at DLD'11 and XV as well.

    I would say that the EVENT of the XV was WAY better than DLD. Not even close.
    (YES the guest taps had a better selection at DLD. But you also had like a 2 hour wait to GET to them at one point.)
    But there was a big problem...
    They had a MASSIVE screwup in the line.
    Totally bizarre.
    This was the cause of almost ALL of the real complaints about XV.
    Basically, if you were there in the early part of the line, when they opened the gates, you had your beer within 15 minutes.
    We walked right through to the tents afterward and were the first people in.
    We grabbed a table, set up shop, opened bottles, went and bought beer and food, and had an incredible time.

    But one of our good friends got there 15 minutes before the gates opened, and didn't want to be a douche and cut into line at our spot (I was like the 22nd person in line)
    even though all of the groups immediately behind us were letting 4-8 friends jump in line with them.

    He wasn't anywhere NEAR as far down the road, at the end of the line, as we were at DLD.
    We were past the hospital at DLD, and we were there at least 2 hours before it opened.
    And yet, once the line started moving at DLD, we had our beer by like 1:00.
    They moved far more people through the gates, and through the purchase line at DLD, in far less time.

    It was totally messed up at XV.

    Like the other poster said, our friend wasn't INSIDE THE GATES, let alone buying his beer, until 4:30.

    That can't be okay. That's not normal.
    We thought they must have had some sort of problem, and were holding everyone from buying their beer or something...
    there is simply no way it takes say... 400 people 4 hours to buy beer from like 6-8 cashiers.
    Something SERIOUSLY wacky has to take place to make that happen.

    THIS made the event LEGITIMATELY AWFUL for some people.

    YES, some of us waited 5 hours in line BEFORE noon.
    But we had a party and a shitload of the best beer in creation.

    The folks showing up at noon probably all expected a 45-90 minute line to buy their beer.
    And they had no party... the back of the line is not where the hard core beer nut jobs are.
    It's where the folks who want to hit and run are.

    The wait wasn't anything resembling "you should expect this... XXX people, small place." It was WACKY. It was the kind of wait you'd expect if everyone was getting to the cashiers and THEN saying "okay, so where is the ATM" and holding their place in line while they used the dialup modem to get cash etc. Do not for one second think that it was a normal wait.

    There is no way it should have taken that long, and there is no way that FFF could possibly be okay with it having taken that long, when DLD was a fraction of that wait.

    So don't expect "whatever happened" to be a thing they decide to keep from XV.

    I absolutely do think they should sell 500-ish tickets at the pub on a Sunday morning.
    I do think they should help hook up the locals, because we are the repeat customer nut jobs, who eat at the pub and take care of our servers and bartenders.
    We're the idiots who buy shirts and swag and mail them to friends all over the globe.

    And we're going to buy tickets one way or the other.
    I don't feel bad about the idea of someone non-local having to hit stub hub... we have local friends who had to.
    It'd be nice to have an IN with that... it's not like the online ticket sales haven't been mega-problematic.

    Re: coolers and chairs... if you're going to be there at 6 AM, bring a cooler and a chair, IMO.
    Just make a run to your car before they open the doors.
    They had the "no coolers or chairs" rule at XV, and they didn't seem to have any problem with them in the line.

    I totally agree that it sucked how much space people took up with their gypsy camps at DLD.
    One drunk person sitting in a ring of way more shit than the folks needed, while the others did whatever...
    it was definitely a nightmare getting around at DLD. XV was far easier.

    There's my too much information and too many words for ya.
    Ssstraub and phisigben like this.
  39. phisigben

    phisigben Savant (345) Kentucky Jan 8, 2009

    Again they waited for beer, I knew I was going to be waiting (1-2 hrs), but 4-5 hrs is a little extreme when all I really wanted to do was see the bands and drink from taps. DLD had 6000 tickets to get the beer I waited 2 hrs, but you didn't wait in line 4 hrs just to try some of the beers on tap or get something to eat (Unless it was in the brewpub).

    DLD 6000 people 2 hr wait
    XV 2500 people 4-5 hr wait

    So was it unreasonable to think I could get in, eat food and try tap beer in under 4-5 hrs based on previous experience, No.
  40. sacullen

    sacullen Aficionado (245) Illinois Oct 14, 2008

    Not everyone can plan to get there early. People who couldn't get there early enough due to other responsibilities had to wait in line an extraordinarily long time. Once they had their bottles, food was gone and so were many draft beers. I'll readily admit you can't please everyone at an event like this or DLD and for an example, simply look at my post above regarding coolers and chairs. I thought they created needless traffic jams, someone else didn't have any problems. YMMV.

    I also agree that when you get to events like these early, you have a better time. However, this just simply is not a realistic expectation for all. It's also not appropriate to treat everyone like they didn't plan well when other events take precedence. My brother-in-law has his graduation for Michigan on DLD. Guess where I'll be? His graduation. Beer is not my life and I refuse to let it take precedence over everything else. And this is coming from someone who is under-employed. I have plenty of time, yet still have more important things to do.
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