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Everything Deep Ellum

Discussion in 'US - Southwest' started by Ford, Feb 2, 2013.

  1. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    Is thought to? Hmmm o_O

    If I want an American Barleywine, I'll buy one. Problem is that I don't, as English Barleywines are far more preferable per my taste (and many others, judging by where they tend to fall in the ratings).

    In the spirit of the community, I hope your Dreamcrusher has morphed into what you're looking for, mattisloco.
    mattisloco likes this.
  2. mattisloco

    mattisloco Savant (455) Texas Feb 13, 2007

    Did you like Southern Star's ProAmm this year? IMO I believe it tastes better now than fresh and you can still find it in places. This is just one example you may want to try, then again maybe not, but I too enjoy English vs American barleywines.
    JJFoodie likes this.
  3. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    I didn't enjoy it fresh and doubt I would at this point.

    I really like balanced or otherwise assertively, roundly-hopped big IPAs. After several months, the floral and fruit notes fall away and are dominated by the intense bitterness, which lingers for sometime. That bitterness is present in both American Barleywines and RIS, which is why I tend to avoid both those styles nowadays. I've aged Burton Baton for a year and realized I liked it much better fresh. The only two American Barleywines I've enjoyed of late are Old Numbskull and Doggie Claws. They're good fresh, but much better after 2 yrs. Still, the lingering bitterness makes them slightly less enjoyable than their English counterparts.

    Is Deep Ellum's barleywine going to be American or English?
  4. elbrooksie

    elbrooksie Aficionado (205) Texas Jan 10, 2013

  5. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    Drinking my first cans at Granada Theater. The IPA in cans is just top notch shit! Give me this everyday and ill tasters choice it against Zombie Dust. They could follow suit with the Alchemist and pump this bad boy out exclusively, not that I'd want it but DAMN its just great.

    First time I've looked at this thread since I tuned out. No shit storms ahead I hope
  6. mattisloco

    mattisloco Savant (455) Texas Feb 13, 2007

    I haven't had a bad can yet either. Hopefully whatever was wrong is fixed. BTW you really need to go to Strangeways after your show at Granada.
  7. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    Work at 8 precludes an additional stop. It's the Old 97's... They will play very late..much later than my old bones can handle.

    Yeah the cans are sharp...great hops bite to them. Truly better than 512 even on draft
  8. Sethzilla

    Sethzilla Aficionado (230) Texas Oct 10, 2012

    FT: Dreamcrusher Glassware
    ISO: Cherry Chocolate DBS Glassware
    Can do IP in DFW! :)
  9. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    Dreamcrusher is also at WF Lakewood and Craft and Growler. WF has it $4 cheaper for 64 oz. fills, but doesn't use a CO2 purging system, FWIW.
  10. air

    air Savant (350) Texas Mar 28, 2007

    Tried the recent DEBC IPA on draft right next to 512 the other day interestingly enough. Gotta disagree, I'd still put 512 ahead.
  11. TexasStout

    TexasStout Savant (255) Texas Jun 22, 2007

    Given your dislike for American barleywines, RIS and bitter IIPAs, it begs the question: are you American or English? o_O
  12. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    [​IMG]
  13. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    I gotta agree with you, 9 out of 10 times the (512) is better unless the keg is fresh (and one can assume the lines are clean) then I just prefer that hop bite of DEBC over the peachy aroma of (512). For the first time in a long time I'm actually going to say this but the DEBC cans actually taste better than any recent draft pull I've had of it (I guess that's kinda like bands that sound better live, Fugazi? Tool?)
    HoustonZ33 likes this.
  14. ThirdEyePA

    ThirdEyePA Savant (370) Texas Nov 7, 2011

    For the record, Tool sounds amazing live or studio.

    But I had the Deep Ellum Dry-Hopped IPA from a cask and it was fantastic. I haven't had an IPA from Texas come close to how good that one was.
  15. JohnBender

    JohnBender Savant (425) Texas Apr 20, 2012

    Oh man. Please do not say Fugazi and Tool in the same thought.
    HoustonZ33, Cablejelly, air and 2 others like this.
  16. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    Fair enough. Just glad the Fugazi reference didn't go unnoticed. For the record they are horrible on album but have a kickass show. Maybe Gwar is the best, or worst, example ;)

    Also let the record show that Tool is amazing both recorded and live but come on...live they just are otherworldly.

    Back to beer...I was very happy to see these cans at the Granada ( they also had Dallas Blonde) it definitely makes the shows even more enjoyable
    mattisloco and ThirdEyePA like this.
  17. JohnBender

    JohnBender Savant (425) Texas Apr 20, 2012

    Really man? I grew up on Repeater and 13 Songs. Cannot stand Tool. But to each his own obviously. Saw Guy play with Vic Chesnutt at a church in Austin. It was to be Vic's last gig before he killed himself. True story.
  18. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    I'm only 33 so I really only caught Fugazi thru older friends and my brother. At that time they all ventured toward Danzig, Front 242 and Black Flag as well. I went toward RATM and later Tool in that middle school epoch.

    That church show is one you may never have a chance to out due considering the circumstances.
  19. Danielbt

    Danielbt Savant (380) Texas May 4, 2012

    Had two Deep Ellum beers at Craft Pride that I hadn't had a chance to try before: Cherry Chocolate Double Brown Stout and Darkest Hour.

    The CCBDT was decent, but Darkest Hour was really nice. Lots of chocolate coffee roast goodness going on.
    Ford likes this.
  20. TxUltraRunner

    TxUltraRunner Savant (375) Texas Aug 16, 2012

    Mad rep for mentioning Fugazi!

    Anyone have Cherry Chocolate Stout and Dreamcrusher glasses? I'd be willing to pay for shipping to Houston.
  21. Heretic42

    Heretic42 Savant (415) Texas Aug 31, 2011

    In case you don't find a trade, the brewery should still have some glasses. My friend and I picked up a couple today.
    sjs0187 likes this.
  22. Cablejelly

    Cablejelly Savant (255) Texas Sep 6, 2010

    Currently enjoying a growler each of Dream Crusher and Cherry Chocolate Double Brown Stout... both came with matching glasses. Hooray for visitors from Dallas! Also got a growler of Velvet Hammer from Peticolas... color me impressed!
  23. Ford

    Ford Savant (470) Texas Sep 8, 2012

    I got to try Wealth and Taste last night...it was different... I really need to try it again to decide how I feel about it!
  24. lsiberian

    lsiberian Aficionado (215) Texas Jan 11, 2013

    I definitely enjoyed the IPA. It's not my favorite beer, but it's certainly an excellent local brew. Didn't realize they had just started canning. I just started drinking craft beer like a month ago and it was actually my first IPA.
    H0rnedFr0gs likes this.
  25. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    Welcome and watch your pocket...it's a slippery slope this craft bug. If you liked the IPA I'd suggest doing a tour on a Saturday and/or catch up with those guys at the Big Texas Beer Fest I expect they will have a big presence.
  26. taitlifto

    taitlifto Aficionado (185) Texas Jun 16, 2009

    This is Tait with DEBC - I saw this post and wanted to thank you for the feedback and mention a few things:

    1) I honestly have not heard any complaints about our cans (which we started doing last month) at all - in fact, we've received great feedback. The shipment to Houston was a ONE TIME shipment because of the high demand for the product, but most cans stay in Dallas due to supply/demand. To say we're "ignoring feedback" and "just send out crap product" is an unusual statement since there has only been one shipment of cans to Houston ever and we've had no complaints on our cans in Dallas that I'm aware of. The truth is we take feedback very seriously. My email is [email protected] and I'd like to get real time feedback anytime and anywhere that you have an issue.

    2) We use the exact same beer in the kegs that goes into cans. The exact same. One 60 barrel batch may have about half of it used straight into cans and the rest go into kegs. It's the same when it leaves the brewery whether it's in cans or in kegs.

    3) Yes, the bottles had some consistency issues which was one of the big factors in switching over to canning. The used line (built in the 90s) was a stop-gap that didn't run as well as we had planned, which accelerated the need to replacing it with the canning line, which is also a stop-gap until we can afford a bigger line. The 4 head canning line (run by Texas Canning) runs really well, but also can't keep up with demand.

    4) Our product is unfiltered and unpasteurized. So, if a customer decides to ignore our instructions on proper care of the product and puts cans on shelves or ships in an unrefrigerated van, there are some other possibilities that come into play. When you see our products in the unrefrigerated section of the store, complain about the store - complain to the managers. They are hurting our beer when they do that. Spec's picked up the order for Houston cold - what happened after that, I honestly can't speak to. This forum has really made me go back and wonder if we will have to refuse sales to stores that can't prove they keep the cans cold from our door to the customer, so we're currently discussing this internally. It would likely mean a huge drop off on product availability in the short term, but the quality is important.

    It does sting a little that the first time I hear of any issues with our product is laced with accusations of "dumping bad product" on you guys. That is so far from the truth to what we're working on. The fact is, we make an unpasteurized, unfiltered product and work hard to keep the consistency level high when our products leave the brewery. I do value the feedback, but prefer it to be constructive rather than inflammatory. Again, please do always feel free to contact me directly at [email protected]. We're so busy these days, it's hard to even stay involved in the forums so please do contact me directly anytime.
    I appreciate the feedback and all of you staying involved in craft beer. While our opinions differ sometimes on what we personally like, the love for craft is what keeps us all going.

    Cheers,
    Tait
  27. GregSVT

    GregSVT Savant (475) Texas Jul 1, 2009

    Tait, that was posted a month ago. You can read here and on other threads about the problems people are encountering. I had messaged whoever is in control of the facebook page weeks before that. To say you guys have never heard of this is either wrong, employees aren't pay attention to customer feedback, or you guys aren't communicating internally which is another problem. If my post was taken as inflammatory it was probably because I had spent $30 or more on packaged beer that is worthless. There are plenty of breweries that are unfiltered and unpasteurized that don't have these issues. Leaving a beer at room temp shouldn't cause it to become infected and gush out of the bottle. It also shouldn't cause a canned beer to taste like soap. I've been around long enough to know that is a problem with sanitation of equipment, bottles, or the product in general. The cans I bought were in the cooler, had just been delivered the day before, and I assume had been brought to them cold by you guys. I had them in the fridge since buying them and noticed the off flavor on the first can I opened. It's probably not a recipe issue but a bottling/canning issue and you're accidentally getting wild bacteria introduced at some point in the process.

    All you had to do before shipping to Houston was read on here to see feedback about bad bottles/cans. If you guys aren't actively browsing places like this you are doing yourself and your customers a disservice. Granted I probably should have also sent feedback to an email address I figured whoever was in charge of your social media would be forwarding feedback to the appropriate people.

    As I said I will continue to support you guys as a draft product but until you figure out your packaging problems I won't be buying anything Deep Ellum at any store. We've actually met in the past and know some of the same people so I hope my post didn't offend you.
    air likes this.
  28. rainerschuhsler

    rainerschuhsler Savant (350) Texas May 17, 2012

    Tait, thank you for posting and clearing things up. I'm a Houstonian and a fan of Deep Ellum. I buy Deep Ellum just about every time I see it on draught and I want to see more of your packaged beer here. The cans I complained about were purchased at Spec's and were not cold when I bought them. They were stacked in cases sitting out on the floor. Now I know to only buy it if it's cold.

    P.S. – Are there plans to can your Farmhouse Wit when it comes out again? If so, please, please send Houston some!
  29. taitlifto

    taitlifto Aficionado (185) Texas Jun 16, 2009

    We do try to respond to direct customer feedback, but I honestly don't have the capabilities to watch all the forums in the world, unfortunately. I wish I did but I'm sure you've noticed our growth and can appreciate how much is on my plate these days. What we strive for is working on the quality when it leaves the door. Please feel free to contact us directly - whenever we can, we do also try to stay on top of the many forums that exist as well it just isn't always practical. We do pay attention to direct customer feedback and try to troubleshoot any issues that come up.

    Also, as I mentioned, our beer is unfiltered. What happens to beer that is stored in warmer temperatures that has any risidual yeast in it? So, you ask about the other breweries that have "no issues", yet they filter. Keep those factors in mind as well - every brewery follows different internal processes and that is a biggie, so yes temperature variations affect our package beers in greater detail than Lakewood for sure. Should we filter our beers? It's an option and one that we will continue to discuss, but Drew (our head brewer) prefers not to filter. It's still a consideration, though, if we find that we truly can't get our beer to stay cold on the retail store side.

    There are many, many considerations and decisions on the backside that we consider, so yeah to hear such allegations thrown out there is hard because there is a reason behind every choice we make, and quality is a big part of it. We believe our beer is better without being filtered and we don't pasteurize. But, again, the way the beer is handled after it leaves here is an issue, and it's not fair to label us as uncaring without considering the full picture, or tracking the beer from when it leaves our dock until you purchase it. McDonald's french fries can exist in the wild for months without molding. Does that make them better than fresh cut unprocessed french fries from a gourmet restaurant? Absolutely not.

    As mentioned, we have been transitioning from bottles to cans and have yet to see an issue with the cans. This report of cans being bad in Houston (which came from the same stock of cans that taste excellent here) is the first I heard of can issues, period. I honestly don't know why the cans that went to Houston would taste different - they are from the same batch that has many cans in Dallas, and many kegs. I've forwarded the info to our head brewer as well, but I'm at a loss to figure it out. Justin (our South Texas Sales Sherpa) is down in Houston today delivering beer so I've asked him to pickup a six pack of IPA while down there so we can taste it and figure out what's going on.

    We will continue to try to solve any issues that come up, absolutely, and I do appreciate the constructive feedback. You, and anyone else that has received a six pack that had issues, please email me and I'd be glad to reimburse you. I also do invite you to email me your tasting notes so I can forward to our brewers for follow up as well. My email is [email protected].

    Yes, we are planning on canning our Farmhouse Wit in 16oz cans! Here's a sneak-peak of the design...

    [​IMG]
  30. UHCougar12

    UHCougar12 Savant (465) Texas Feb 21, 2011

    I agree that something is different in cans than it was on tap. I'm no brewer or really even understand the process of creating beer. But some friends and I had the Blonde on Tap at the Brewery last fall, and we all agreed it was phenomenal. One of the top session(ish) beers we've ever had. Then I picked up a six pack here in Houston, and it is undrinkable. It smells and taste "soapy". The IPA also has a similar smell to it. Thanks for suggesting to only purchase if it is refrigerated. Hopefully this is an isolated incident.

    I will give y'all that the cans have some pretty badass designs!
  31. kmello69

    kmello69 Advocate (505) Texas Nov 27, 2011

    I will say that when I was just in Fort Worth and stopped at the Specs there, there was a ton of DE beer sitting out warm on the floor. So either the distributor is not making it clear that this shouldn't be the case, or Specs is simply not property handling the beer, but if temperature really has that big of an impact, you're going to need to get more aggressive with retailers about making sure the beer is kept properly refrigerated.
    mrkmrk and taitlifto like this.
  32. taitlifto

    taitlifto Aficionado (185) Texas Jun 16, 2009

    Also, can anyone detail which Spec's in Houston they've seen DEBC brews at in the last 24 hours?
  33. Texas_Speed

    Texas_Speed Savant (315) Texas Aug 22, 2012

    I'm pretty sure it was all kept at the main Spec's warehouse on Smith Street in Downtown Houston.
  34. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    This will never happen in a million years (by this I mean a brewery forcing any retailer to refridge a beer at all times). It's just not going to happen with the limited space most stores have.

    Disregarding that..short term exposure to heat (come on its March... This ain't heat) should not cause a "soapy" flavor. I've shipped Heady Topper during the summer by ground and had no issues...to take one unfiltered, unpasturized, canned beer that is recommended to stay cool.

    In other news DEBC posted an opening for an assistant brewer today
  35. DanzBorin

    DanzBorin Initiate (0) Texas Apr 11, 2012

    I believe a lot of Saint Arnolds beers are stored unrefridgerated and are unfiltered/unpasturized. I've never heard of it being a requirement.
  36. taitlifto

    taitlifto Aficionado (185) Texas Jun 16, 2009

    Well, the beers that have been refrigerated from leaving the brewery until purchase are great. So drop some info on me so we can solve this.
  37. DanzBorin

    DanzBorin Initiate (0) Texas Apr 11, 2012

    Tait,

    Glad to see you working on this. I know you back your product and only want to make things as good as you can.

    We need to drink some more beers together if we ever get back up to DFW. lol
  38. champ103

    champ103 Champion (860) Texas Sep 3, 2007

    Rye Pils back on tap at Premium Draught in Houston. I did not read all the ranting, though I will say this is consistently one of the better lagers available in Texas. Right up there with Pearl Snap, Hans Pils, and Live Oak Pils. Though I guess this style is not cool enough for some people here. Also, hell ya for some Farmhouse Wit cans.
    twiggamortis420 likes this.
  39. H0rnedFr0gs

    H0rnedFr0gs Savant (425) Texas Mar 12, 2012

    Sorry to engage without fully disclosing my position.

    Every single can IPA I have had has been spectacular. Better than the draft. I never had a bad bottle but they often missed the bite if the draft version. Of course freshness plays a role but the cans are spot on. I seek them out and will include them as extras in most every trade.

    That others found issues is surprising but it's great to know you guys are responding and committed to the process.

    I'm a fan. Can't wait for that Barleywine

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