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Filling generic growlers

Discussion in 'US - Pacific' started by ModernTimesJacob, Feb 13, 2013.

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  1. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    For the first time, we agree.

    Simple question: are breweries following the growler law right now? One word, yes or no?

    Well, that and insults.

    If you don't even believe what I'm saying, then why are you (general) attacking me? Yeesh.

    Simple question: have breweries been 100% legal in their fills "this whole time"? One word, yes or no?

    If the ABC hadn't clarified anything and I had made this push 3 months ago with no regard for getting universal fills, what would you have said? Are you mad at me for pointing out that they're not doing things legally or are you mad at them for not doing things legally? Touch yourself down there and be honest. If you answered the former, you're part of the problem. Baaa-aaaaa-aaaa
  2. Because you are posting to a bulletin board I follow?

    My question is pretty simple - name ONE brewery that you've reported. It shouldn't be too difficult to verify.
    jasonmason likes this.
  3. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    No. I'm also not going to post my info like some have suggested. Why should I? I've never complained that anonymity is wrong. You guys seem unnecessarily upset by a guy doing the right thing.

    aka you're part of the problem.

    edit: Not only am I not from San Diego, I'm not even from Earf.
  4. Xul

    Xul Advocate (525) California May 18, 2008

    What do you define as good customer service vs. bad customer service? I find most breweries in San Diego provide fine customer service and relations - I'm able to go to the breweries and purchase beer in a reasonable manner, have my questions answered, and generally have issues resolved in a satisfactory manner. Where do you see breweries failing in customer service?
  5. DrtyBvrJuce

    DrtyBvrJuce Initiate (0) California Jan 17, 2013

    I have no insider info. Everything is a repost or quick Google search to find out info. This combative stance against the breweries doesn't make much sense to me. Not all are within the letter of the law but that doesn't prevent you from buying their beer. Nor will it work as a cudgel if they refuse, legally, to fill anyone else's growler. You guys come off as a bunch of entitled whiney crybabies.
  6. jtmartino

    jtmartino Savant (470) California Dec 11, 2010

    I'm with you here. Plus, it seems that a lot of BA's are fine with settling for only a small change when they should be pushing for a complete overhaul of the system.

    Why settle for blank growler fills when the law states you can fill almost anything? Why settle for growler fills at breweries when you could get them filled at bars and taprooms too?

    And on a statewide level, why settle for bullshit laws drawn up by bullshit legislators that work against the economy?

    This whole discussion has been interesting to me. It has given me insight in the industry that supports my hobby, and frankly I'm a little disappointed with many people in the industry from both the consumer side as well as the producers. People settle for mediocrity, make excuses for shortcomings and are often stubborn in their business practices at the expense of the consumer.

    Customer service issues across the board are one thing. But revising the growler practice could potentially bring in a lot more revenue for some of these places, and sorting this out could be as simple as a phone call.
    Patrick likes this.
  7. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    No, of course not. Better to do nothing just to be safe.

    I don't know about you, but I've been laughing at how upset and butthurt you guys have sounded over the past few days. FFS you guys are accusing me of "tattling" and "ratting." LMAO! The vocabulary of children. And I'm arguing with a guy named after a children's snack food. I don't think you're aware of who's a crybaby here, but your posts don't show much self-awareness.
  8. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) California Dec 10, 2011

    I hearby award a Tri of BAssholes to RyRy, Jtmarty, and MikeFive. With this you get your Participation Medal and a sixer of light struck New Castle.

    Enjoy.
  9. jtmartino

    jtmartino Savant (470) California Dec 11, 2010

    And you come off as a troll with comments like that. This discussion has helped educate people. Please do not confuse knowledgeable and passionate individuals debating the merits of law interpretation and how it could benefit consumers as "entitlement."
    Patrick and tjensen3618 like this.
  10. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    I'm not too upset if an incoherent bumbler thinks I'm a dick. Still, thank you for the award.
    Patrick and jtmartino like this.
  11. rrryanc

    rrryanc Savant (400) California May 19, 2006

    Lets see. Besides the growler nonsense? Alesmith has been terrible about answering inquiries and emails for me, and at least a couple of other people I've talked to. Lost Abbey and Alpine have been putting out infected beers with no public apologies (in fact, LA seems to take it as a personal insult). The Bruery has a secret-invite top tier of their beer club which they still like to dangle in front of everyone else paying them, as well as struggling to reasonably plan in advance their promised events. Alpine and Russian River both strike me as overly entitled when it comes to their beers, which I know is a common view, though definitely not universal - and I'd mark down as a customer relations issue. Stone is run like a legitimate business, and generally has been prompt and cordial in the customer service to me. Greg is a bit on the egotistical rock-star side these days, though I suspect that's somewhat because that image sells.

    I haven't had much experience with the breweries up here - mostly because there are basically none in the Peninsula (damn them!).

    Special beer releases have been customer relationship nightmares so far - with only Alesmith, The Bruery and FiftyFifty getting them mostly right (my thoughts on that can surely be dug up in another thread).

    And as a more universal feeling, when I head into tasting rooms - Green Flash, Drakes, Russian River, Alesmith, Hess, Lost Abbey, etc - I always feel like I'm in a bar where the bartender is too busy to be friendly, even when it's mostly dead. People that know me can attest that I'm not particularly hideous, or quite the asshole in person, so it's always sorta baffling why I'd get that treatment. Maybe that's just me though.
    Patrick, Beerandraiderfan and PKPUNCH like this.
  12. Different people have different motives. I don't care whether or not you are anonymous or how long you've posted here; I'm just curious who you outed if you indeed reported somebody (which I doubted and still doubt). I don't think you lower that cloak of anonymity by sharing that information.
  13. rrryanc

    rrryanc Savant (400) California May 19, 2006

    Resorting to name calling when you run out of actual arguments, eh?
  14. It's because you don't put out good vibrations.
  15. rrryanc

    rrryanc Savant (400) California May 19, 2006

    I dunno, when I'm off to get a beer I'm pretty full of good vibrations. And disposable income, which I'd think would be more important...
  16. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Oh, I see. I thought you were also complaining I was "hiding behind a keyboard." I still decline to share that information. I don't feel I owe it to you or anyone at this point. Doubt me if you like; I really don't care.
  17. tyrsis

    tyrsis Savant (360) California Mar 13, 2009

    It doesn't have to be blank, but the existing information on the growler needs to be covered in some way. I would guess that breweries would find this to be a hassle, as they'd have to completely cover any and all information with a sticker or something.

    Can't blame them, there.
  18. rrryanc

    rrryanc Savant (400) California May 19, 2006

    So the "us" in that quoted bit was just an honest mistake, eh?

    It's not combative - it's simply "Don't be dicks to us, and we'll be good to you." That's too much for the breweries to handle?
    MikeTen likes this.
  19. jtmartino

    jtmartino Savant (470) California Dec 11, 2010

    That's what she said.
  20. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) California Dec 10, 2011

    Then you better hire lobbyist to make new laws.

    Breweries have now been told they have the option to fill blanks/others if they wish. Fills outside of the breweries aren't part of the recent clarification and are an entirely seperate issue. However, any changes would again be made at the State level. The ABC enforces the rules, they do not make them.

    You need those 'bullshit' legislators to write new laws. And they require lots of campaign contributions to motivate. Are you running for office or starting a BA PAC? Are you a member of Brewers Association (BA) or the AHA where your contribution actually goes to fund lawyers and lobbyist to change the bullshit laws? I am (AHA).

    I think your hobby supports the industry, not the other way around. CA makes some of the best beer in the country, I wouldn't consider that medocre at all. The consumer is free to purchase (which the breweries are happy to sell) or not. While I DO want to get my SS growlers filled everywhere it's not the end of the earth if I can't. I support the new ABC clarification and the big difference is I see where the breweries are in terms of working together. This stuff doesn't happen over night. I guess I give 'em more time to comply, get approval and then make an announcement.

    Who are they going to call? They've already had the law clarified and now they can procede in a way that best fits their business practice.

    I'm not sure you're all that knowledgeable.
    Sebowski likes this.
  21. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Do you ignore the parts where he's articulate and uses big words? Outside of those he's pretty much writing nothing and doesn't come off very knowledgeable.
  22. 3rdto1st

    3rdto1st Savant (260) California Dec 1, 2011

    Lets not forget that even if you are part of this preferred club, if you, god forbid, forget to email before you come up for allocations, you get the biggest stink from the guys working there. (Jamie and the other girl have been nothing but nice to me, just the guys are douchebags) Also, the atmosphere from most everyone behind the bar is that you are lucky they have deigned to take your money and give you some of their precious, special beverage.
    Patrick likes this.
  23. My gawd you guys are silly. Walk away from the 'puter.
  24. rrryanc

    rrryanc Savant (400) California May 19, 2006

    It's 10PM where I'm at and I'm stuck in a hotel room playing on my PSP - I literally have nothing better to be doing right at the moment.
  25. That was not me that used that phrase in this thread. If you can't keep the people responding to you straight, then maybe you should consider taking a break.
    MacNCheese likes this.
  26. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) California Dec 31, 2008

    wow you are insufferable. Don't play everything like it is black and white. The laws are confusing and how they are enforced is even more confusing. I am sure breweries were not intentionally breaking rules. They were doing what they thought was a) legal and b) safe from any form of local interpretation of the law.


    You are not pointing out something other people did not notice with the clarification of the law, so stop patting yourself on the back like you did. The point is, there was clarification, now the breweries can act on those clarification. First, with making sure they do properly label the growlers, and second being able to fill blank (or covered) growlers. You are wanting these things instantly. That is stupid and unrealistic. As I said before, they need a plan and need time to make the changes (including the waiting for label approval).

    I am not mad at them for not doing things legally either, as I stated early, that is because it was unclear to them what needed to be done.

    I am part of the problem? How? I want there to be change. I do not buy growlers because i do not like the current laws. Now knowing the path for breweries to fill blank growlers I will be supporting those that do... sounds like I support change.


    If the law was so clear to you and you knew for a fact they were in the wrong why did you have to wait for the clarification to come out to start "turning" in the breweries? Why didn't you do it 3 months or 3 years ago? Your question is a stupid hypothetical question as these chains of events (and your actions) are based on the clarification.

    Lastly, wouldn't the breweries have had to get their growlers approved by the ABC? I am guessing they did, and in doing so they thought they were on the right side of the law. It seems your view is the breweries have been trying to screw you over intentionally and circumventing the laws. I suggest you take the tin foil hat off and relax. Brewers are not out to get you, they are trying to make a living, and doing so requires them to deal with ambiguous and arbitrary laws.
  27. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    I haven't really been reading most of the specifics of your words. Generally when I'm responding, I'm drunk and laughing at the butthurt. Several of you are against me and most of you aren't making sense.

    I notice you didn't answer the question. Thank you, you gave me what I wanted.
  28. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Initiate (0) California Dec 10, 2011

    Finally things make sense. It's 2:16pm on a Tuesday... I think this is your cry for help.
    Sebowski and Beerandraiderfan like this.
  29. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) California Dec 31, 2008

    I will agree with the overall statement that not all breweries are good at customer service. But I am guessing a lot of that has to do with

    a) we are a niche group who find it our hobby to get intimate with the details, so with that we will be able to pick out flaws
    b) this is a very rapid growing and new field. There are a lot of things to be worked out, from website designs, bottle releases, special clubs, demand out stripping supply, and overall popularity.
    c) these are people who came into the business as beer lovers, not from the service industry or commercial space. As these breweries grow (and learn) I am sure they will be able to train and hire new members to help them in these areas.

    I agree with some of your assessments about some of the breweries you listed. I had terrible service at RR when i visited, I will most likely skip it next time I am in the area. I didn't like GF handling of Silva Stout, so i didn't go the release party and will skip other releases they do like that. BASS in 2011 was a mess, and I would not have done that style of release there again, I am glad they switched to BPT. I don't buy LA bottles due to their past record, or I wait until the verdict is out on if a batch is flat or infected. I have had great customer service as an RS member, even when there were issues in my pickups. However, I am a little nervous about this years RS, as it seems instead of just adding another upper layer (HS), they took down the RS, but time will tell and if I feel the same at the end of the year I will not rejoin (or I will join HS ;)). Plus one thing the Bruery seems to be good at is once they fuck up, they fix the problems the next time.

    Overall, my point is, yes most breweries do suck at some aspect of the customer/company interaction. So I choose to avoid that aspect of that brewery and go on enjoying the other parts or other breweries (i.e. buy bottles from stores or on drink on tap, frequent my favorite places such as PPOB)
  30. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) California Dec 31, 2008

    because it was not a yes or no question. It was loaded question (and stupid)

    yes or no, do like the fact that the moon is made of cheese and the world will end in 2 years? <-- stupid question

    I did take time to answer your question. Sorry it was not the answer you wanted. I will lay it out again.

    The breweries thought they were in compliance before the clarification. Now that there is clarification they are working on making sure they satisfy the law and how it will be enforced by their local authority. They thought they were (and so did the ABC apparently) because they had to get growlers approved, and I am sure a lot of breweries have had inspections. I think you are also forgetting the clarification not only went to the breweries, but local authorities.


    p.s. you changed your question. If you want a forced answer, here you go.

    You first asked
    Simple question: have breweries been 100% legal in their fills "this whole time"? One word, yes or no?
    - I say yes, because their methods have been approved by the ABC and they had not been punished.

    Then you asked
    Simple question: are breweries following the growler law right now? One word, yes or no?
    - I would say probably not now that clarification has come out. However, there is no past cases to build off of. Plus we now need to wait to see what changes the breweries make and how the local authorities handle them.
    Sebowski likes this.
  31. mrkrispy

    mrkrispy Savant (410) California Apr 5, 2006

    Nanobrew how dare you apply rational thought to craft beer and your purchasing! That is not allowed on BA!
  32. I think that's a pretty good summary. The irony here is that you took a handful of people that may have leaned towards the "breweries are taking advantage of us" side of the argument and tossed them over the fence. You've done your cause more damage than good, at least in a Beer Advocate frame of reference.
  33. rrryanc

    rrryanc Savant (400) California May 19, 2006

    Absolutely yes to this. But while the industry is growing rapidly, it's not terribly new. Sierra Nevada has been making incredibly solid beers for over 30 years now. Stone's been around for nearly 20. (Two breweries who excel at being businesses by the way - solid product, good marketing, good customer service, properly priced). There are examples of how to do this properly, it's not rocket science.

    My parents have had several small businesses as I was growing up. I understand how easy it is to flub things and misinterpret convoluted laws (ever looked at the farming labor code?). Bad bottles? Screwed up labels? Pricing problems? All that shit's going to happen, and that's part of the learning curve. But none of it is an excuse for bad customer service.
    jtmartino and flexabull like this.
  34. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Nananana boo boo!!!!

    Really? So they were legal before and the clarification changed things?

    Let's look at the damn law:

    Uh... Oops! Looks like the law has always explicitly required breweries to label growlers over 5.7% ABV, in very simple terms. And before you argue that "container" was confusing, everyone interpreted "container" in 25200 to include growlers... So they knew what was expected, they just half-followed the law to their advantage.

    Breweries were not submitting anything for approval. Saying they "were approved and had not been punished" is like saying people going 85 are "approved" to travel at that speed.

    No, my question was the same in both cases: were they legal before the clarification? The answer is no.

    Again, those of you who are mad at me for pointing out what has always been the case, you are part of the problem. Please stop being angry and start being part of the solution.
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