Filling generic growlers

Discussion in 'US - Pacific' started by ModernTimesJacob, Feb 13, 2013.

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  1. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    And your Stockholm Syndrome is frightening.

    Positive momentum over 10 years? :rolleyes: I've been buying growlers for a long time. Yeah, I'm suuuure breweries are just chomping at the bit to enact more consumer-friendly growler laws and it's just taking a lot of time for the wheels to turn. Stop being blind.

    The recent ABC clarification does nothing for most breweries. They didn't even know what the law was in the first place. They're not paying attention. I could walk into one today and get a growler that still wouldn't have the ABV on it. Poking them gets them to pay attention to the news and what the law really means.

    Let's see if Golden Road actually does it. But it says a lot that they're in the minority.

    That doesn't sound ABC approved.

    And I applaud its glacial pace.
  2. No, positive momentum in the past 1 to 2 months.

    And I'm not suggesting breweries are chomping at the bit. Clearly they're not.

    And you can't say with any truth that the recent ABC clarification does nothing for most breweries. It has elevated the discussion to the forefront for SOME breweries and has SOME breweries actually discussing and responding to it, which is a huge improvement. Your response to this is to divert everyone's attention away to this, and on to you and an unrelated issue: that breweries aren't providing proper labeling on their existing growler fills.

    It is a distinct possibility, in fact it's probable, that it will take longer than it should and most breweries will do nothing to change their growler fill practices following this "clarification," at least initially. But some will. And that is clear, positive change that is under way, at whatever glacial pace it proceeds.

    Actually, it is. Which is part of my point. You don't even know what the rules are that you're attempting to catch other breweries breaking.

    You've done a fine job avoiding the central issue, which is that you're not actually proposing anything to draw attention to the issue at hand. You're arguing that if you start waving your arms about one unrelated issue, somehow brewers being all pissed off about that is going to make them decide to get their entire ship in order.

    Which is just a horrifically asinine and idiotic position to hold (and thought to have).
  3. A couple of breweries in Humboldt have filled any growler I've ever brought in.
  4. And tangentially, your facile use of "Stockholm Syndrome" and seeming inability to process that I am not pro-brewer so much as I am anti-moronic-plans-that-can-only-cause-harm is, well, frankly expected.
    Beerandraiderfan likes this.
  5. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    All right. You try your way and I'll try mine.

    No, it's made quite clear on page 6 that a template won't work. A label for each beer needs to be submitted and approved. If a brewery has not approved a label for any of its growlers thus far (and a brewery that hasn't been writing ABV on its growlers likely hasn't done this), then simply adding an ABV to the tag isn't going to cut it.

    But yes, if a brewery already has an approved label and it has just been omitting ABV from oversight, then a Sharpie will do.

    A growler labeling issue is unrelated to the idea of labeling growlers? Fine hair to split. Run with that line of reasoning.
  6. I'm extremely curious why you think the beers have not been submitted and approved for labeling.

    A brewery not writing the ABV of a beer on a tag on a growler is precisely no evidence at all, whatsoever, that they have failed to do so. And frankly, it's not even suggestive of the fact.

    My point is that you don't actually seem to understand what it is that needs fixing. Your presumption seems to be that brewers are simply failing to get label approval, which they should be doing anyway, and if you force them to do so, as a side benefit, they'll then be "forced" into already having the legal approval to slap on paper labels and fill other breweries growlers.

    Whereas it seems quite clear to me that brewers have approved labeling for their generic growlers to which they have certain requirements they're supposed to meet for the specific beer that goes in that growler. So calling them out on that has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that a paper label would be an entirely NEW label that would need to be submitted for approval. So "fixing" the problem that you see will do absolutely nothing to encourage them, while they're at it, to go create a brand new label.

    You can broadly decide it's all just a "growler labeling issue" but that speaks to the heart of the issue: not only are you suggesting a plan that will only piss people off, you're suggesting a plan that even if you effected change would not solve the core issue that you have a problem with, and you're not even aware of it.

    But hey, keep operating under the assumption that if you poke people in the eyes about one issue they'll be super happy to go about fixing that other thing you want fixed, too. Since it's quite clear that equal or exceeding your desire for breweries to start filling growlers from other breweries is to piss some people off and put yourself in the center of things I suppose you actually WILL be satisfied either way.

    Good luck drumming up support, though.
  7. Eh, I've just about expended my caring on this issue arguing with you, which was a gigantic waste of my life.

    I'll be happy to spend my dollars in a way that reflect my views, but if a bunch of private businesses can't make smart business decisions and don't know how to market themselves that's not for me to fix for them. At least not for free. I'm as pissed about the stupid California growler laws as anyone, but like many of you, I already have my set of growlers and I'm done.

    But if you actually care to be proactive about it, I applaud that and would support, generally, your desire to effect change. But your "plan" is just hideously stupid, and quite clearly so. And the change is going to get there, eventually, in spite of you.

  8. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    The law has explicitly required that ABV > 5.7% should be labeled. Most breweries do not do that. Therefore, they are ignoring the law, or they haven't even read it. Breweries that have been selling growlers for years without proper labeling requirements have very likely never submitted proper labels.

    My entire plan is to nudge them to look at the law and pay attention to the recent clarification. The first effect is that they'll get in compliance, but they'll also rethink their wrong beliefs from the past. It's possible that some will see the light and think about clever ways to accept other breweries' growlers. And that will open the floodgates.

    This makes me feel particularly guilty that I didn't read most of what you wrote. But it's not like anyone was paying attention to me either.
  9. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Man, now I know how people felt when Mongo and I would get into it.
  10. [quote="MikeTen, post: 1055804, member: 315818
    My entire plan is to nudge them to look at the law and pay attention to the recent clarification. [/quote]

    Yeah and it won't work, and here's why:

    [quote="MikeTen, post: 1055804, member: 315818
    they'll also rethink their wrong beliefs from the past. It's possible that some will see the light and think about clever ways to accept other breweries' growlers. [/quote]

    That is just a patently absurd line of thinking. Not only will no brewers take the opportunity of someone enforcing existing label laws to rethink their belief system, nothing about that conversation or line of thinking is in any way related to whether another label that they have not applied for can be used to apply to some other breweries' growler.

    You have a fundamental failure of understanding about how human beings operate.
  11. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    No, you're considerably more boring.

    Of course it is. Never in the history of ever has insight ever come from looking at a problem with fresh eyes.
  12. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Come on man, we're equally boring.
    MikeTen likes this.
  13. Revised AleSmith Growler Fill Policy

    Recently, the ABC (Alcohol Beverage Control) clarified to breweries in California their approved laws on filling growlers. With the recent clarification, AleSmith has been hard at work on creating a tag that will satisfy the requirements and allow us to begin filling blank growlers in the AleSmith tasting room. We have submitted a tag for approval and as soon as we receive the appropriate approval, we will be filling blank 32 & 64 oz growlers of our ten year round beers.

    For the time being, we will only be filling blank growlers (no other company markings) and it will only be with our ten year round beers. Look for these changes to take effect within the next sixty days.

    We will post to both our Facebook and Twitter as soon as we're approved to start filling the blank growlers. Additionally, we will still be selling AleSmith logo growlers and filling them with all of our beers that are available for growler fill.
    UnknownKoger, jamex, Retsinis and 9 others like this.
  14. Leave it to AleSmith to be awesome. Too bad theirs is one of the few growlers I actually own.
    tyrsis, flexabull and errantnight like this.
  15. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    AleSmith has set the bar. Anyone that takes more than 2 months from now to adopt something similar can be said to be dragging their feet because it's not in their business interests. Basically, what I've been saying all this time.
    thome50 likes this.
  16. Since you don't seem to be aware, it turns out tons of insight comes from looking at problems with fresh eyes.

    It's the eyes of the egomaniacal who eschew reason and have little to no awareness of how fellow humans respond to stimuli that lack insight.
    sirtomtom likes this.
  17. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Go AleSmith!!!

    Ordering a blank SS growler now!! Be AWESOME to trade growlers now!!! Ship them back and forth with no chance of breakage in a very well made growler!
  18. That isn't at all what you've been saying, but hey, don't let that stop you from claiming victory. It's all about you, Mike, all about you.
    jasonmason likes this.
  19. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Crap growlers though - I hate those screw caps.
  20. Yup, but one of the few breweries to offer 32oz'ers. And soon, we can bring a blank 32oz SS growler for fills.
    flexabull likes this.
  21. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    So awesome. Keep 1 each 32/64oz SS growler in car - done. Keep 6 or so other SS 64oz at home for parties. Done. Throw other 50 glass pieces of shit in trash. Life = simplified.
    flexabull likes this.
  22. Exciting times, for sure.
  23. SageO

    SageO Savant (420) California Jul 13, 2010

    Does anybody make a 32 oz swing-top SS? I'd love to have it but I've never seen one.
  24. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    LOVE the trading prospects. Many States allow "fill any" growler. Ship a growler of Alpine to friend in Midwest without packing the fuck out of it - guy enjoys beer - ships it back with some love from his State.

    BUTTTT... will Pat fill a blank SS? We will see.
  25. One unerring mark of the love of truth is not entertaining any proposition with greater assurance than the proofs it is built upon will warrant. -John Locke

    You have no love of truth, only of your own ego.
  26. MikeTen must have gotten to these guys fast.
    afrokaze and Sebowski like this.
  27. Were they on your hit list, out of curiosity?
  28. Not that I've seen, unfortunately. Maybe someone else can chime in.
  29. 32oz is ~1L but only actual 1L swing tops.
  30. Stainless steel, though? If so, link?
  31. Ah, missed the ss part. No, alas, sorry.
  32. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Glad we agree!

    Really? It's word-for-word what I said earlier:

    I thought from all your ten-dollar words that you knew how to read. Was I wrong?

    No, I wish I could claim credit for this one, but it's just AleSmith being awesome. I sent Peter an e-mail a month ago and he seemed pretty receptive to the idea. I only reported a few guys that I e-mailed and who said, "No thanks, we'll stick with what's legal" who aren't doing the ABV thing (motherfuckers, you ain't being legal in the first place!). It might become evident who they are in a month or two.
    tjensen3618 likes this.
  33. Actually what you were saying was that this wouldn't happen without you, which, uh, it just did. Not only can I read, I understand meaning, too! But please, keep finding quotes where you repeat specific phrasing you've already used as often as you'd like.

    Now if only you had any good ideas to accompany your fresh eyes. Ah well.
  34. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Well, if it happened universally without me, I'd swallow my words. But right now, we have just one (maybe 2 if you count Golden Road, though the recent announcement says otherwise) brewery thinking ahead. The vast majority that I e-mailed a month ago told me they weren't interested in what I had to say.

    So I made them listen.

  35. Your delusion apparently knows no bounds, but your heart is in the right place.

    rob133 and DrtyBvrJuce like this.
  36. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Thank you. I am glad we finally see eye-to-eye.
  37. I started off by saying your heart was in the right place, FWIW
  38. Sebowski

    Sebowski Savant (335) California Jan 11, 2010

    I hope not. Too much will get shipped out and they can't keep up with locals as it is.
  39. Sebowski

    Sebowski Savant (335) California Jan 11, 2010

    No we don't. I heard a few different places are getting plans in place. It just hasn't been very long since ABC reviewed their policy and let the brewers know their new interpretation. No need for knee jerk reactions right now. Just a little patience. Wait.... Fuck.
  40. MikeTen

    MikeTen Initiate (0) California Apr 3, 2009

    Those guys aren't aware of, or are choosing to ignore, the new interpretation. By reporting them and letting them know I've reported them, I'm making them aware.

    You idiots act like I'm reporting everyone willy-nilly. I did my research. I only went after the ignorant. Wait, maybe that's why you're sympathizing with them...
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