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GABF Winners: Rants n Raves

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by beertunes, Oct 13, 2012.

  1. miketd

    miketd Advocate (615) Ohio Mar 2, 2006 Beer Trader

    I agree with some medal winners and don't with others... some I haven't had. At the end of the day, who cares?

    People's reaction can be summed up this way: If my brewery won, GABF is awesome... congrats!; If my brewery didn't win, GABF is shit.
    caseyff and MacNCheese like this.
  2. Danielbt

    Danielbt Savant (380) Texas May 4, 2012

    I will; it won a gold medal.

    Stop crying.
    Vav and miketd like this.
  3. Horbar

    Horbar Advocate (675) Rhode Island Feb 24, 2012

    The thread is called Rant and Rave.

    Stop being a douche!
    BillyCannon likes this.
  4. kzoobrew

    kzoobrew Champion (870) Michigan May 8, 2006

    So we can only rant and rave about the GABF and not others opinions? I would think they would all be fair game.
  5. Is that the GABF's style guideline? I'm looking at BJCP guidelines that say something fairly different. A german pils can actually be less hoppy than a bohemian pils and still fit the style guidelines.


    Seriously, look at the IBU ranges (which I do realize aren't any sort of law that brewers have to follow, lol).
  6. MaltMilkshake

    MaltMilkshake Savant (275) California Feb 9, 2011 Beer Trader

    And what style do you feel they hold their weight in?
  7. Of course, with a lower final gravity the perceived bitterness could be higher since the beer is drier and with less of a malt profile to balance the hops. I think. Any homebrewers want to chime in?
  8. MaltMilkshake

    MaltMilkshake Savant (275) California Feb 9, 2011 Beer Trader

    Zombie Dust with a bronze and Hoppy Birthday no medal in the American Pale category? I love Zombie Dust but seriously??
  9. MaltMilkshake

    MaltMilkshake Savant (275) California Feb 9, 2011 Beer Trader

    Funny thing is I think the GABF blind judging is great at calling out bullshit on some of the so called subtlties. I'm willing to bet that 99% of you couldn't pick out your predetermined favorite from a sampling of 80 IPAs. Just saying.
  10. Kadonny

    Kadonny Advocate (705) Pennsylvania Sep 5, 2007 Beer Trader

    I'm not sure what you are getting at, but the BJCP guidelines say pretty much the same as I said. Some BJCP descriptions:

    "Crisp and bitter, with a dry to medium-dry finish" and "Crisp, clean, refreshing beer that prominently features noble German hop bitterness" and finally "Drier and crisper than a Bohemian Pilsener with a bitterness that tends to linger more".

    Bitter and dry usually mean hoppier with pils'. I guess I have to go read the GABF style guideline, but I can't imagine it's that much different. As I said earlier, Prima to me falls into this category.
  11. If you look at the GABF guidelines they are different from the BJCP. Max IBU for this style is BJCP=45, GABF=40.,

    One thing to ponder is that the Bohemian Pils usually has less attenuation, so it will have a higher FG. Water also plays a part, as the Bohemian Pils has very low sulfates, and has a smooth rounded bitterness that fades quickly. A German Pils can have higher sulfates, which leads to a sharper dry bitterness that lingers.

    The stuff posted by Kadonny makes me scratch my head a little. Noble hops are Saaz, Tettnanger, Spalt and Hallertau Mittlefrueh. The others are not.
    Vav likes this.
  12. According to the BJCP style guidelines German Pilsners can be very hoppy with a top range of 45 IBUs.

    Also from the BJCP style guidelines:

    “Commercial Examples: Victory Prima Pils, Bitburger, Warsteiner, Trumer Pils, Old Dominion Tupper’s Hop Pocket Pils, König Pilsener, Jever Pils, Left Hand Polestar Pilsner, Holsten Pils, Spaten Pils, Brooklyn Pilsner”

    Victory Prima Pils and Jever Pils are two hoppy German Pilsners.

  13. DougOLis

    DougOLis Savant (285) California Aug 15, 2008

    Apparently the brewer at Thai Me Up came from Pizza Port so I guess I'm not too surprised they're starting to clean up the IPA awards.

    Stone's "Enjoy By IPA" got 2nd and Alpine's "Bad Boy" got 3rd at the Alpha King Challenge btw
  14. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Savant (315) California Dec 10, 2011

    BJCP guidelines are not used at GABF, BA (Brewers Association as opposed to Ba Beer advocate) guidelines are used. BJCP is for homebrewing only.
    hopfenunmaltz likes this.
  15. I had pointed that out several pages back, but you can't expect everyone to read the tread.

    There is another set of guidelines for the WBC, published by the BA.
  16. I only take stock in those breweries that medal in the same category year after year - shows consistency of quality and that its the real deal and not just a judging anomoly - or a beer that just hits its peak at the time of judging.

    I would love to see some kind of beer awards that reflect what the consumer actually experiences - like taking random bottles off random store shelves to judge. Probably be a lot of gold medals not given out in certain categories like pale ale, lagers, ipa's. lol.
  17. Fair point on repeat medals.

    I actually think that is a fantastic idea for somebody to startup. The "realistic awards". All judging is done based on random purchases over a 3 month window with the same beer tried at multiple stores on multiple occasions.

    When you really think about it, it is kind of fascinating that brewers work to deliver super fresh beer for judging, but are perfectly content to call a 3 month old IPA on the shelves as fresh in front of consumers.
    Horbar likes this.
  18. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Savant (315) California Dec 10, 2011

    Once a beer is with the distributors, it's out of the breweries hands. Most also can't afford a recall and reimburse the distributor for the product. The judging is entirely unrealistic. What we have is imperfect but given the logistics etc...it's the best there is.
  19. So it's ok for consumers to pay for out-of-date product at full price? In no other industry is that acceptable behavior. Out of date food gets thrown away, out of date clothing gets recalled, out of date electronics get discounted, etc, etc.

    I get that it's a highly imperfect system, I'd just like to see brewers not stick their heads in the sand about it. There are a few that make an effort, but far too many that either don't care or don't do anything about it.
  20. Same here! I think I sold 1 case at standard price, the rest went out at cost just to get rid of them. Still, Troegs is one of the best brewerys around!
  21. nanobrew

    nanobrew Advocate (645) California Dec 31, 2008

    that would be a fun competition/study, though probably impractical.

    I think it would be great that the beer would be influenced by the distributor. It would put more pressure on them to deliver a fresh product. You could then look at results based on the distributor. Though, it would be hard to judge based on various location distributors (ex: Stone based on an east coast distributor vs their own local distribution)

    You make a good point on how is it really fair to the customer if breweries are winning awards based on fresher product (in which the customer may not get due to the distributor chosen by the brewery), beer brewed with a more keen eye, beer brewed specifically by the brew master, and even beer brewed with different (improved) ingredients.
  22. They did not award gold in that category, to resounding boo's from the crowd.
  23. Weasle Boy taking gold with their RIS was pretty awesome, especially because we had a gallon jug of the barrel aged version which is phenomenal.
  24. BlindSalimander

    BlindSalimander Savant (345) Texas Aug 16, 2010 Verified

    Best Name:

    Bronze: TPS Report, Trinity Brewing Co., Colorado Springs, CO
    Rau71 likes this.
  25. Vav

    Vav Advocate (515) Illinois Jul 27, 2008

    Thank goodness GABF has Judges rather than BeerAdvocate reviewers.

    Also, as an industry person, i think it's amazing how in just 3 years i've gone from knowing of every brewery that medals to knowing about half. It's so fuckin' cool to see breweries popping it everywhere in the US, not just major metropolitan areas.

    Congrats to all the winners :)
  26. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Savant (315) California Dec 10, 2011

    Beer doesn't go 'bad', it may not taste fresh but unlike meat/cheese/bread/milk, old beer won't make you sick. Thus it doesn't have to be regulated the same as foods that spoil. If breweries were forced to recall old beer, I'd expect to see a lot go out of business. Because again: once it's sold into the distribution chain the brewery has little to no control over the product.

    So drink local, and if you don't have a good local brewery for beers that have a shorter taste life span: sucks to be you. For instance: I live in San Diego, and I never ever buy hoppy beers from the east coast. Hell, I barely ever buy OR hoppy beer either, simply because you have no idea how old it is, how it was stored etc... Beers that don't sell eventually will be pulled from that market. Problem solved.
  27. I'm not asking for regulation. I'm asking for brewers to care more about freshness.

    Local often isn't the issue. I can count on fresher Stone products on my local store shelves than I can from many New England breweries.
    SunDevilBeer, Longstaff and Horbar like this.
  28. briman

    briman Savant (315) Texas Aug 25, 2005

  29. If they can't do these simple things to keep fresh beer on the shelf, then they should not sell as much beer at one time to a distributor. Easy enough these days to keep track of turnover for each customer and if they are reordering before the lots you sold them pass your breweries "best by" date. Ultimately its the breweries reputation on the line. The stores just blame the distributor (and many times than not in my area, rightfully so) - and the distributors just seem to be immune to criticism due to lurking in the background with no transparency/relationship to the consumer.
  30. MacNCheese

    MacNCheese Savant (315) California Dec 10, 2011

    I="Longstaff, post: 565116, member: 421"]If they can't do these simple things to keep fresh beer on the shelf, then they should not sell as much beer at one time to a distributor. Easy enough these days to keep track of turnover for each customer and if they are reordering before the lots you sold them pass your breweries "best by" date. Ultimately its the breweries reputation on the line. The stores just blame the distributor (and many times than not in my area, rightfully so) - and the distributors just seem to be immune to criticism due to lurking in the background with no transparency/relationship to the consumer.[/quote]
    I dont know enough about how much the distributor tells either the customer/brewer. The 3 tier system in general needs to be abolished.
  31. Had a Cafe Racer 15 on tap last night. A touch malty for my taste, but great hop flavor loaded with citra. Easy to see how those who prefer a little sweeter, maltier DIPA would go nuts for it.
  32. This year's winners raised eyebrows, no doubt, but it was good to finally see the brewers and the names behind the brands being there. A big thanks to Garrett Oliver who urged fellow brewers to be there and pour their beers. I saw Dick Cantwell, Gary Fish, Ken Grossman, Kim Jordan, Meg Gill & Jim Koch to name a few on the floor both nights I was there. And they were all approachable and accessible.
  33. Below is a reply to the post by briman:


    A nicely written article about Shiner Oktoberfest. Within your article you state: “An enduring sweetness keeps it from being as dry as I tend to like in the finish …”

    I had the Shiner Oktoberfest the past few years and my take on the beer was consistent with your verbiage above: a sweetness that continued past mid-palate into the finish. In all fairness this particular characteristic is common in a number of Oktoberfest beers, for example Sam Adams Oktoberfest. I often attribute this sweetness characteristic to ‘overuse’ of crystal malts but I must admit that I have also experienced this flavor profile in Oktoberfest beers where the brewery did not use any crystal malts.

    The Oktoberfest style can be a challenging style since it is a somewhat subtle beer. In the October-November 2012 edition of Ale Street News there was a nice description of the Oktoberfest style provided by Paul Sullivan:

    “When brewed well this style is the epitome of balance, because although it is a malt-accented beer, the best ones have enough hops to keep a good fight going between bitterness and malt, It’s all about balance.”

    So, my past experience with Shine Oktoberfest is that it lacked balance for my palate. Needless to say but each individual will have differing perceptions and opinions on this aspect.

    In Paul Sullivan’s article (the Homebrew Corner column) he provided a recipe which included a grain bill of:

    · 4 lbs. German Pilsner malt
    · 2 lbs. German Vienna malt
    · 4 lbs. light German Munich malt

    There was no crystal malt in the grain bill. I have not brewed an Oktoberfest beer in a while but of find this suggested grain bill to be intriguing.

  34. Jules11788

    Jules11788 Savant (420) California Feb 15, 2011

    Have you ever had Hop in the Dark?
  35. HopHead84

    HopHead84 Poobah (1,040) California Nov 29, 2006 Beer Trader

    It's not at all surprising to me that Kirk Mchale, the brewer of the Frank's Double IPA at Pizza Port and the lesser known Maverick's Double IPA at Breakwater (up until April 2010) , can still make great hoppy beer after moving to Wyoming from San Diego.
    vurt and ehammond1 like this.
  36. Redrover

    Redrover Champion (830) Illinois Jan 18, 2003

    Wow, 7 pages of comments and no congratualtions to Old Style getting a silver?

    I guess it's up to me!

    Going back to Kraeusening paid off.
    beertunes and match1112 like this.
  37. beertunes

    beertunes Poobah (1,400) Washington Sep 24, 2007 Beer Trader

    Yup, just went and read my review, and it pretty much sums up why I don't care for the style. I don't think that hops and roast play well together, it's a war on the tastebuds. But damn, that Wookie Jack is a fantastic beer. So far, it's the only CDA that I'll have more than once.
    denver10 likes this.
  38. denver10

    denver10 Poobah (1,055) New Mexico Nov 17, 2010

    I thought the same thing as you and then I tried Odell's Mountain Standard.
    SalukiAlum likes this.
  39. ASUBeer

    ASUBeer Savant (430) North Carolina Nov 4, 2011 Beer Trader

    I like the ISO/FTa that tout a GABF medal to increase trade value.
  40. Spider889

    Spider889 Advocate (730) Ohio Mar 24, 2010 Beer Trader

    Wasn't trying to point fingers or make fun man, like I said great beer can be found everywhere. The point was that just because a state like WY doesn't get much if any real beer press doesn't exclude it from the ability to win medals... and they won a ton.