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German beers' IBUs

Discussion in 'Germany' started by herrburgess, Mar 29, 2013.

  1. Found this chart of the IBUs for the most popular German beers (scroll down a bit to find it): http://hobbybrauer.de/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&tid=9614. Thought a few things were interesting: (1) Uerige has the highest in all of its forms; (3) Schlenkerla is, by German standards, pretty hoppy; (3) there are some nice beers -- that are also available in the U.S. in pretty good condition (esp. when canned) -- such as Koenig Pils, Bitburger, and Weihenstephaner Pils that are all still 30+ IBUs. Anyone else find anything surprising here?
    boddhitree and sergeantstogie like this.
  2. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (345) California Nov 3, 2005

    Judging by the inclusion of Bit Sun, I am going to guess that this is from (ballpark) 2005-2006.

    For me the most shocking is the higher values for a lot of the pilsners that are (generally) considered hoppier. Seeing that Bit is showing one of the highest values (38), I tend to wonder 1) how accurate is the list and if it is accurate 2) what has happened since to this beer.

    While living in Germany I always preferred Flensburger, which is tastes like 38 IBUs.

    Haven't had a Sticke in many years, can't really remember the beer anyway...one of those nights in the Altstadt...
  3. einhorn

    einhorn Savant (345) California Nov 3, 2005

    Just before closing the page I saw that Guiness is listed at 45 IBUs - really?
  4. Saw that, too. I'm thinking that they had the Export Stout (but I don't want to open up that debate here if possible).
    steveh likes this.
  5. Jever at 35 IBUs. Sigh.
    Zimbo and JackHorzempa like this.
  6. +1 to that sigh. :(
  7. It was 48 or 50 in the first Michael Jackson book, then 44, now 35. Last I was in Germany, I knew it was not as bitter are 98-99, and now some numbers to go with it.
    Zimbo likes this.
  8. It seems as if Jever has been particularly "hit hard" in this area. It was always head-and-shoulders above any pils I ever tasted over there in terms of bitterness, and now it's on a level with Radeberger and Koenig...and even less bitter than Flensburger. Actually, however, I'm more surprised that those beers have remained at those IBU levels. Wonder what the deal is with Jever? It could well be that they amped things down to appeal to a wider audience.

    EDIT: I have only seen it at 45 IBUs in Michael Jackson's book(s). Can you provide source material for the 48-50 claim?
  9. No, someone had said that some time back, and one of the local pros that studied in Germany said it was 50 when he was there 20+ years ago. Isn't Jever owned by one of the bigger firms now?

    Edit - the interweb says Jever is part of Oetker Group, which might explain it.
  10. Yea, it seems like the ones bought by Oetker have suffered the most. Not surprising.
  11. Domingo

    Domingo Champion (945) Colorado Apr 23, 2005

    Interesting find about Jever. I had never had it until 2-3 years ago and I didn't find it to be much (any?) hoppier than the other northern pilsners I'd had. It was still good, but a lot of people had said it was the inspiration for American beers like Prima Pils, and it definitely didn't seem that hoppy to me.
    Never had any fresh Uerige, but those numbers also surprised me a little. The bottled versions of the doppelsticke I've had were nearly as sweet as a doppelbock or English barleywine. I'm guessing they probably weren't taproom fresh.
  12. Lots of interesting discussion about Prima Pils. In my opinion, Prima Pils is indeed hopped at a level consistent with Northern German style Pilsners. In the not too distant past (30-40 years ago) Pilsners in Germany (including Southern Germany) were hopped at a higher level than they are today. The two owners of Victory (Ron Barchet and Bill Covaleski) both trained in beer making in Germany prior to opening Victory Brewing in 1996. The inspiration for their beer Prima Pils was from Waldhaus Pils in Southern Germany:

    “Owner Ron Barchet began the evening from the head table presenting the history of Victory’s brewing with a visual overhead slideshow. The brewery’s roots can be traced back to Barchet’s time spent in the Tettnang region working and learning about German beer brewing. In fact, it was a taste of Waldhaus Pils that first led him down the road of exploration and yearning to know more about the process of brewing what became his favorite beer.”

    http://newhomebrew.com/blog/2012/04/12/the-roots-of-german-beer-at-victory-brewing-company-in-pennsylvania/

    Cheers!
    Domingo likes this.
  13. That would make much more sense to me, because I, for one, see/taste very little similarity between Jever (either of old or new) and Prima.
  14. boddhitree likes this.
  15. In a past thread I asked if anybody has tried Waldhaus Ohne Filter Extra Herb beer so I guess I will ask again: has anybody tried this beer? If so, what do you think of this beer?

    Cheers!
  16. I, personally, had never heard of Waldhaus before reading the Victory info. Never tried any of their beers.
  17. "The Famously bitter Jever Pilsner ****... Since the brewery was acquired by the national group Brau und Brunnen, Jever Pilsner has seemed to diminish slightly in character, but its dryness still makes for a wonderfull aperitif."

    From Michael Jackson's Pocket Guide, 1997.

    I had a lot of Jever in 98 and 99, and think it has gone downhill.
    Zimbo likes this.
  18. Domingo

    Domingo Champion (945) Colorado Apr 23, 2005

    A lot can change in 15 years. I've met people that swear Salvator was as good as Celebrator, Andechser, Korbinian, and the like back in the 90's.
    Over here in the States, we see pretty extreme examples of this with differing ABV's, hop/grain bills, etc. pretty often - and not just the smaller breweries either. Even hugely successful beers like Fat Tire have changed dramatically in 15 years...and they're still independent.
    I don't think it's too big of a stretch that they changed the beer.
    I can't recall where I heard this, but I think there was a big stink when Augustiner admitted that they were going to lager their helles for 5 weeks instead of 6.
  19. boddhitree

    boddhitree Advocate (630) Germany Apr 13, 2008

    Speaking of Jever, I don't know if JackHorzempa or hopfenunmaltz remember the Coversation we had from May 16, 2012 to the end of that month. Here's a cut and paste job of the parts relating to Jever we discussed.



    That's all folks.
  20. boddhitree

    boddhitree Advocate (630) Germany Apr 13, 2008

    We discussed this beer awhile ago on this forum. I never got to try it though I'd really love to try it.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG][​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
  21. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    Salvator has turned to absolute shit. It used to be a much better beer: darker, not as stickily sweet.
  22. Def agree. In the early 90s it was superb. Not at all now.
  23. I had it 'accidentily' blind last year and couldn't believe it was the same beer. A disgrace for one of the most iconic beers ever produced.

    But at least Aventinus is still pretty decent. And I noticed its IBU count was the lowest on the list to.
  24. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    Not hopped up and still good? The hell you say! ;)
  25. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    What conclusions are you drawing there?
  26. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    C'mon Ron, Beck's is shit. St. Pauli is (basically) shit. Boddington's is shit. Salvator may not be what it was, but I don't believe it's become "shit"... though there's still time.
  27. Anyone tried this one from Waldhaus? (Told ya to be careful what you wish for ;))

    [​IMG]
    Zimbo likes this.
  28. Not so much a conclusion but a reminder that although I find myself opting for more and more three digit IBU beers, it is more than possible to brew world class beer with only a sprinkling of hops.
    steveh likes this.
  29. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    Might'a been a tad more classy if they'd opted for Bloody Hell. :rolleyes:
  30. To make matters worse, they claim that it's a "Helles from the village of Fucking, Austria" (a town that does actually exist).
  31. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    Me and Sebastian (of Freigeist) hope to put that right. We're going to brew a late-19th century style Salvator. Not sure if we'll manage to keep the FG high enough to be properly authentic.
    Zimbo likes this.
  32. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    It's a compartive thing. Compared to what it once was, it's now shit.
  33. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    Established in June of 1945 by the U.S. 2d Armored Division? :rolleyes:

    Hey Joe, look -- we're in F***ing Austria!
    Bierman9 likes this.
  34. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    I gauge "shit" by whether or not I'll accept a beer when offered, I've readily turned down a wide range of swill beer over the years.

    So, If I meet you in Munich and buy you a half liter you'll turn me down?
    boddhitree likes this.
  35. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    I drank two 25cl glasses of the stuff last Friday. Bought and paid for by me. So of course I'd let you buy me a half litre. But should we be in Munich, I'd hope we'd be somewhere with Bayerischer Anstich*.

    Not "absolute shit" or "the worst shit ever" just shit compared to what it was within my beer memory. I didn't say I wouldn't drink it.

    * beer served by gravity.
    steveh and boddhitree like this.
  36. Starkbier

    Starkbier Savant (260) Maryland Sep 19, 2002

    OK, lets correct a few items here.

    Ron did apprentice work at DeGroens (Theo) Baltimore Brewing Co in 89/90 prior to heading over to study at Weihenstephan. He never worked at DuClaw, nor did Bill. When Ron returned to the states, he became brewmaster at Dominion prior to starting Victory with Bill in 95/96.

    Ron and I did an epic 5 week tour around Germany, Belgium, Netherlands and Czech rep in spring of 91. While we were aware of Jever, the amazing pine/hoppy aromas of Waldhaus Pils did impress greatly. Note by this time we were also well aware of Theo DeGroens own very hoppy Pils from the BBC, but that brew used Clusters in the bittering hops.

    Up the road a bit from Waldhaus in and around Karlsruhe was a revolutionary Hausbrauerei called Vogel and they made and still make a stupendous unfiltered kellerpils. I would venture that between the aroma of the Waldhaus and the overall character and drinkability of the Vogel and BBC versions is where our Prima was born.

    One also needs to acknowledge the great beers of Franconia, in particular the great Herren Pils from Keessmann.

    Prost!

    Jim
  37. Starkbier

    Starkbier Savant (260) Maryland Sep 19, 2002

    also, the linkage to Parkbrau was post BBC - Theo DeGroen went back there after he sold BBC.
  38. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    There it is folks! I got Ron to say he'd drink sh.... ;) Just kidding around, of course.

    And if we were in Munich I'd probably want to hit the Anstich pours as well as any others (of course, we'd catch a train to Regensburg the next day...)
  39. steveh

    steveh Advocate (705) Illinois Oct 8, 2003

    Oh -- most of us are quite familiar with, and respect, Ron and his great reputation, Jim -- we just like to bicker as a big happy family might. :)

    Been too long since I had a Keesmann.
    boddhitree and herrburgess like this.

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