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German roggenbier and Southern England brown ale

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by RochefortChris, Jan 27, 2013.

  1. Does anyone know if an American brewery has re-created an authentic version these styles? I know it is nearly impossible to find an import version of these styles but I would really love to try them.
  2. MattSweatshirt

    MattSweatshirt Advocate (555) Texas Jun 29, 2011

    Live Oak in Texas does a seasonal roggenbier.
  3. What's the difference between a Southern brown & a dark mild?
  4. A Southern English brown is an "official" BJCP style. All it says is it's a bit sweeter and lower in alcohol than a northern England brown ale like a Hobgoblin.
  5. HumanParaquat

    HumanParaquat Savant (375) Indiana Jun 23, 2011

    The Bier Brewery in Indianapolis makes a really nice Roggenbier, but I can't speak to how truly authentic it is.
  6. Abita Turbodog is a Southern English Brown Ale
  7. mountsnow1010

    mountsnow1010 Savant (355) Vermont Jan 23, 2009

    Yeah, but it's Abita...
  8. Haha. I like Turbodog but yeah, it's Abita.
    Why does BA list Hobgoblin as an ESB?
    mountsnow1010 likes this.
  9. because most beer entries on this site are created by users. the "style" assigned to it is up to the whim of that user. subsequent requests to "report an update" can be made, but ultimately, this site and the BJCP are NOT the be-all and end-all of what constitutes actual beer styles in the world.
    StJamesGate likes this.
  10. Live Oak's roggenbier for the win.

    Abita makes a roggenweizen (roggenbier with hefeweizen yeast) that really isn't too bad.
  11. hoptualBrew

    hoptualBrew Savant (475) Florida May 29, 2011

    <--- Thinks Abita Turbodog is freaking awesome
    brewsader likes this.
  12. I know that we could go round and round and round for days on 'styles' and 'stylistic correctness', but if one does attempt to follow the styles, Turbodog isn't really close to a Southern English Brown (which is not to say it's not a tasty beer!).
  13. Bear Republic made a roggenbier at one point. Might have just been a one-off though.
  14. Fine. East End Fat Gary (tap-only in PA) is definitely a Southern English Brown Ale.
  15. To answer the OP, no American brewer could brew an authentic English Southern Brown Ale because it's not an authentic style in itself.It's a result one of the many misunderstandings and misconceptions which are rife in the beer world.
    At one time when every town had its own brewery or breweries , each offered a Brown Ale.There was no regional characteristic , where I live we had three fair sized breweries whose Brown Ales were quite distinctive and different; it was good business sense to offer a choice from the competition.
    There were and still are however two major brewers of Brown Ale , Newcastle in the North and Mann's from the South.But these are simply not typical Brown Ales at all.
    http://zythophile.wordpress.com/2011/03/31/why-theres-no-such-beer-as-english-brown-ale/
    Some people think that brown Ale was simply bottled mild but it was usual to brew mild and Brown Ale as separate beers.
    So Southern English Brown Ale is simply a made up style and finding a genuine one is as easy as finding a unicorn.
  16. I love your posts. You are always contributing something new and interesting to straighten out the facts.
  17. MrOH

    MrOH Savant (440) Maryland Jul 5, 2010

    This was the only beer I've had that would fit the BJCP guidelines for Southern English Brown:

    http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/164/18969

    Apparently, no longer brewed, but I recall enjoying it. As far as roggenbier, never had a commercial one, but going by the guidelines, I used to brew one everyfall. This year, I just went with a straight up dunkelweizen, and I gotta say, its a more soothing and drinkable beer.
  18. Going by guidlines or not, I can tell you Hobgoblin is not an ESB. It's one of my favorite beers from the UK actually and doesn't always get the credit it deserves I think.
  19. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    I've a recipe for Whitbread Forest Brown which is similar to what is usually called a Southern English Brown Ale. I doubt very much any US brewery would brew it - too weak and too sugary.
    tronester likes this.
  20. elNopalero

    elNopalero Advocate (665) Texas Oct 14, 2009

    Live Oak makes a roggenbier annually. I missed out last year but had it in 2011 and just loved it.

    Apparently Real Ale up in Blanco also made a roggenbier... once. Here's hoping they bring it back.

    Heard about the Bear Republic version but never got my hands on that either.
  21. RDMII

    RDMII Savant (290) Georgia Apr 11, 2010

    Abita's Roggenweizen looks like someone pissed into a puddle of mud.

    Rogue's Chatoe line has a Roggen beer, but I don't have much info on it. we have a keg of it for next week.
  22. Iron Hill Brewpub (multiple locations in the Philly area) makes a very good Roggenbier (a beer they make periodically throughout the year). This beer won a Bronze Medal at the 2012 GABF.

    Cheers!
  23. I seem to remember that a lot of people used to mix it with mild.It's a beer I often took to parties, but as the alternative at the time was Watney's Party4 or Party7 perhaps that's not saying much.
  24. Domingo

    Domingo Champion (945) Colorado Apr 23, 2005

    One of my local breweries (Copper Kettle) made a Roggen that was pretty similar to the only "authentic" one I've had, from Thurn & Taxis.
    There aren't too many in Germany, so there might actually be more made over here than there.
  25. Without a doubt there are more made in the US than in Germany. There have only ever been a handful of examples of Roggenbier on the German market.

    You could probably say the same about “Southern” brown ale, which is almost extinct in England. As Ron says, I doubt that many American beer geeks would want to drink an authentic example, too weak and too sweet. For those wondering about the difference between mild and brown ale, there is an important cultural difference in that in England dark mild is/was almost always a draught product and brown ale was bottled.

    By the way, I am fairly sure that nobody over here regards Hobgoblin as a brown ale (perhaps for this very reason).
  26. Doh! I forgot to mention Iron Hill Rye Halladay in my previous post. That is also a very, very good Roggenbier.

    Cheers!

    The name of Rye Halladay is a ‘pun’ on the name of Roy Halladay (a Phillies pitcher).
  27. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    Now they're all disappeared, I regret not trying more of the old-fashioned British bottled styles: Brown Ale, Light Ale, Sweet Stout, pretend Lager.

    Why is Brown Ale (watery Southern type) an "official" style when the Pale Ale equivalent, Light Ale isn't? Light Ale has a longer history, pre-dating Brown Ale by about 50 years.
  28. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    In the 1950's, Forest Brown was Whitbread Best Ale (Mild) ever so slightly tweaked.

    Whitbread Double Brown, there's a beer I'd like to taste. Should any brewer want to make my dream come true, get in touch.
  29. In a few months time an old style brown ale will once again be brewed at my local abbey. Can't wait.

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