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Hill Farmstead getting rid of growler fills for Ephrahim

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by standardcherry, Jul 12, 2012.

  1. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    This thread alone is testament to ebaying and trading. If it all halts for lOCALS oNLY.... what will we bitch about?
  2. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    what's small minded is seeing different perspectives and labeling them "pretentious" out of hostility.

    the difference between my own criticism of such hostility is that i'm trying to foster a more thoughtful, accepting environment. seeing someone "care too much about the beer they make" and feeling inexplicably uncomfortable about it is not going to elevate the environment in any way, nor is acting on it by calling people snobs for being serious about their craft.
    grassrootsVT likes this.
  3. bum732

    bum732 Advocate (630) Lesotho Feb 18, 2008

    I don't care either way about this subject, but perhaps those that call this snobby feel that this act and how Mr. Hill went about it is "not elevating the environment" in their opinion. Is it really that far fetched to feel that way?
  4. miketd

    miketd Advocate (510) Ohio Mar 2, 2006

    Have I been hostile? Because you made a very general statement. You are not going to elevate the conversation labeling people with different views as "small minded" and saying they are trying to bring others "down to their level". People are prone to hyperbole, especially on the internet, so if you really want to keep it civil, name calling and generalizations aren't the best option.
    woosterbill likes this.
  5. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    It's hero worship. Shaun is no better a person than anyone posting here, and the BA's arguing have probably neither met Shaun or the BA they are attacking. Since he is their hero, they blindly defend and shout people down. It's like politics, but worse since this is just beer and doesn't affect your life.
    Lordkrystic likes this.
  6. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    you haven't been hostile, but calling anything snobby or pretentious when it has nothing to do with the meanings of the words definitely is. there's no possible source of it besides the very strange human behavior of, "i don't relate to / understand what that person is doing.... they're pretentious... they're a snob..." it's like being a bully. it's also like being small minded, ie rather than investigating why someone would think a certain way, a person calls something "pretentious."

    yes. he gave his reasons, and they don't really sound like something that's up to the tribunal of beer geekery. "i don't want this stuff happening to my beer. if you guys aren't into those standards, i'll enforce them myself." believing that he owes it to all of us to distribute his beer or package it the way we believe is best is simple unwarranted entitlement.

    if you mean me, you're a complete idiot. maybe if we were talking about james joyce or something, but not some brewer.
  7. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Are you now elevating the conversation? Glass houses and all.....

    No I didn't mean you.
  8. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    i am the conversation elevator.

    i doubt anyone is guilty of shaun hill hero worship, especially if they've never been to hill farmstead. who knows.

    myself, i can't make him my hero because he's into all those bullshit continental philosophers.
  9. miketd

    miketd Advocate (510) Ohio Mar 2, 2006

    Well, I know what pretentious means, but understand what you're saying. It's still not elevating anything by name calling.

    Here's a good example:

    "if you mean me, you're a complete idiot. maybe if we were talking about james joyce or something, but not some brewer."

    I also find the phrase "just some brewer" interesting. Part of the reason people like me though Hill's statement pretentious is because it came from a guy that just brews beer.
  10. Patrick

    Patrick Initiate (0) Massachusetts Aug 13, 2007

    Whoa, dude. Just brews beer????

    The man's beer is poetry.
  11. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    don't want to go back and forth too much, but it's not pretentious if he's sincere and has some basis for his position in fact.

    if he never wants people to taste the older versions of his IPAs, there's no reason why he should have to submit to distribution methods that would require that happening... unless his customers really were so up in arms about it that they said, "listen buddy, no more money for you if you don't start bottling / filling growlers." if their threat really had some weight behind it, he'd have a real problem.

    since it doesn't threaten his business, i see nothing pretentious or snobby or wrong or irritating or out-of-line or (insert negative words) about his move or his explanation. even if it did threaten his business i wouldn't, though maybe i'd think he's then being foolish and imagining some worshipful beer culture that doesn't exist. ...but the culture of people who love his fresh hoppy beers does exist.

    edit: and, of course, imagining a then-not-existing beer culture like that is what all the craft beer pioneers did, and look at what we all got out of that. point being of course that you have to "be the change," blablabla.
  12. travMI13

    travMI13 Savant (355) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    Thank you. You hit the nail on the head.

    Pahn, how many times do I need to say this: I feel that Shaun Hill's attitude is a detriment to the craft beer community. I have explained why I feel this way, yet you continue to say things like people with my opinion are not accepting or acting out of hostility.

    Shaun Hill, you, and myself all share 1 thing: we care for the craft beer community. We just obviously have different opinions about it. There is no need to make this about anything other than what it is.
  13. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    So wait, I can't get a growler of Ephrahim?
  14. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    after i hit hill farmstead for the first time in a couple weeks (as in, my first time there, not as in the first time in weeks), i'm resurrecting this thread and posting mad hero worship shit about shaun hill (whose last name i now remember).

    edit: in fact, what should i get autographed to post in this thread? edit2: maybe i can find a copy of this before i go up.
  15. t8000shx

    t8000shx Savant (305) New York Mar 2, 2004

    Wait, but doesn't this rule totally screw over the locals? Can we all discuss this? I think HF would like our collective input on how we feel about this decision. Pahn, Levi, N2185 - what do you guys think?
    MordorMongo likes this.
  16. Krumb

    Krumb Savant (290) Texas Jan 30, 2008

    No...but there's a heck of a pissing contest going on. It's a nice filler...
    MordorMongo likes this.
  17. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    the locals are too pretentious to appreciate those growlers anyway.
    franklinn likes this.
  18. miketd

    miketd Advocate (510) Ohio Mar 2, 2006

    What's he going to do when some douche hand bottles this out of a pint glass and sends it to another dbag that rates said bottle? That will be fun...
  19. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    No - you are not the customer. The customer is always wrong and should not be listened to. Shaun is the customer of your money and you will give while keeping your trap shut!
    domtronzero, tubbnik and Auror like this.
  20. sarcasm? (sorry, it has been a long day.)
  21. Krumb

    Krumb Savant (290) Texas Jan 30, 2008

    landhoney, travMI13 and Gosox8787 like this.
  22. t8000shx

    t8000shx Savant (305) New York Mar 2, 2004

    Ha, yes.
  23. Lots of people with their panties in a bunch over one beer.

    If it's not obvious, Shaun is a perfectionist when it comes to his beer. If he wasn't than he wouldn't be making world-class beer and if there wasn't some kind of art, alchemy, or whathaveyou to what he's doing than everyone would be making beer that measures up to HF.

    This desire for perfection is obviously what drives him to want people to drink his stuff in optimal condition. People on this forum bitch and bitch about stale old IPAs, but god-forbid a brewer makes an attempt to ensure his biggest IPA will be reaching people's lips fresh as possible. More lips if it ends up in city bars. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you.

    No doubt people were hoarding Ephraim, especially with counter-pressure filled growlers, and drinking it well after they should have. All of you armchair quarterbacks talking about how pretentious he is should try making your livelihood out of some sort of craft, dedicating your life and work to it, and then having people consume that work well after you intended. Eating a baker's pastries after they've gone stale or viewing someone's painting after you set it in the sun and let the colors fade. I'm gonna bet that (and people selling your beer for way more than you sold it to them for) feels pretty damn shitty...
  24. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Why does he trade beers on BA then?
  25. The same reason everyone else? To get stuff not available in his area?

    Trading doesn't have to affect the condition of the beer.
    grassrootsVT likes this.
  26. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Unless it's IP, yes it does.

    (To be fair, the effect may be negligible, but it's there.)
  27. A lot of really embarrassing people ITT. First of all, it's one fucking beer, and it's his beer, not yours. If you really have such a problem with it, then don't support his brewery. There are plenty of other people who love his beer and respect his care and passion for it who gladly will. With the amount of breweries who fuck up distribution, spread themselves too thin, and generally don't care what happens to their creations once they leave their premises, it's a breath of fresh air to see someone stand up for his craft and advocate appreciating beer properly.

    Is there an equal uproar when RR doesn't allow growler fills for PtY?

    And Shaun has said several times that he doesn't denounce beer trading. His problem is with eBay and people sitting on old IPAs just waiting for the trade value to go up. I think most people who appreciate beer would agree.
    grassrootsVT likes this.
  28. I Blame Adam Jackson
  29. I hate to do it, but im ressurecting this thread now that ebay sales have almost vanished. Perhaps policies which do not allow growler fills (pty, pegs, and ephraim) should now change (while still considering the freshness issue)?
  30. Etan

    Etan Champion (755) Wisconsin Jul 11, 2011

    Hey, watch yourself there ;)
    Pahn likes this.
  31. quirkzoo

    quirkzoo Initiate (0) Colorado Jul 7, 2011

    ISO: Growler of Žižek Baltic Porter
    emdawg, Etan, MasterSki and 1 other person like this.
  32. The PtY issue wasn't primarily because of ebay. It was because people muled the shit out of the release and RR kicked all their PtY in one day. A lot was being traded. They banned growler fills so it would last longer and it didnt all end up in the trade forum.
  33. Did not know that, thanks. There is something to be said for drinking beer live on the brewery's premises. However, I think that if you enjoy a beer on site, you should have the opportunity to bring a limited quantity with you to go.
  34. Tons of brewpubs release stuff that is not growlered. There's plenty of other great beers out there to drink. It's not worth losing sleep over some IPA brewed on the other side of the country.
    JohnB87 likes this.
  35. This. My local brewpub brews some amazing beers, and only the more mainstream ones are growlered.
  36. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Yeah, PtY is local to me, and seriously, not worth losing sleep over. I've yet to try a beer that is.
  37. Pahn

    Pahn Advocate (695) New York Dec 2, 2009

    from one trip there (after i posted everything i posted in this thread), i 100% love hill farmstead, and i have a few growlers coming my way in a couple months when my best friends go to drive to canada to relive their honeymoon.

    however, if i woke up tomorrow and read

    a) hill farmstead is discontinuing growler fills entirely, and only offering limited bottle sales, on-site samples, and draft, plus

    b) my favorite local (somewhat local; i go to boston a lot, but live in CT) brewpub, cambridge brewing company was now offering growler fills of every beer they have on tap instead of select flagships,

    i'd let out cheers and wild celebration. hill farmstead is world class, but the portability isn't that big a deal; i can handle special bottles and awesome trips to VT and prohibition pig. most people's favorite brewpubs don't growler all their best beers. it would be an amazing turn of events if they started doing so...

    the point being that 1 beer not being growlered means nothing. if i could get growlers of cerise cassee, i'd buy 10 of them every time the beer came out and drink it regularly until it returned. however, it's still my favorite beer, and i still love cambridge brewing company regardless of what they release for off-site consumption.
  38. I hear you as CBC is my local and I am there 2-3 times a week, Cerise Growlers would be crazy as would a growler of Honey Badger which was amazing at the anniversary.
  39. I'm fine if they would just make Flower Child with a clean yeast profile again. It's a straight up butter bomb now. :eek:
  40. I believe it kicked anyways so maybe next batch.

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