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Hop schedule feedback

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by chadonde, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. chadonde

    chadonde Zealot (95) New York Dec 5, 2008

    I'm working on an extract Ipa recipe and am hoping for some feedback on the hop schedule I've come up with.

    1.5 oz Cascade FWH
    2 oz Magnum 60 min
    1 oz Fuggles 5 min
    1 oz Cascade 0 min
    1 oz Cascade Dry hop
    1 oz Fuggles Dry hop


    Thanks for taking a look!
  2. goodonezach

    goodonezach Initiate (0) New York Mar 24, 2011

    you're going to want to plug your whole recipe into hopville or something to get an idea of what your IBU's will look like. you'll want to make sure your beer is hop-forward enough to be an IPA but balanced enough to be drinkable. i find the best way to approach that is to get a nice amount of bittering hops but to really focus on adding lots of hops late in the boil. that way their flavor comes through, but with less of a harsh bitterness.
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Champion (790) Texas May 21, 2010

    I would also like to see your whole recipe in hopville (or something) so we could see IBUs, ABV, OG, FG, and the malt profile.

    That being said, it seems like too much early additions and not enough late additions. Offhand I'd say move all that cascade to late, FWH 1oz of the magnum, but that's a pure guess until we see the rest of the recipe. As is, I think it would be very bitter without enough hop flavor or aroma. The dry hops are fine.
  4. Need more late hops. Drop the FWH, move those cascade to late in the boil.
  5. Sounds herbal. Too herbal.
  6. jlpred55

    jlpred55 Savant (280) Iowa Jul 26, 2006

    Might be what he is going for. Since he didn't describe what he wants we don't know. Hops schedule sounds similar to what I would think is in Great Lakes Commodore Perry. To OP: I too would back off either the bittering addition or the FWH additon. Without knowing what else you want it is hard to say how else to proceed.
    WickedSluggy likes this.
  7. Maybe I'm just desensitized to hops, but these days I expect an IPA to have more aromatics. Your recipe looks fine if you want a mix of earthiness from the Fuggles and Citrus from the Cascade, but I tend to go all-American, and with the newer varieties that are higher in aromatic oils.

    Here is the schedule from my most recent IPA

    1.25 oz. Columbus (Whole, 15.00% AA) @ 60 min.
    5 ml HopShot (Extract) @ 60 min.
    1.00 oz. Simcoe (Whole, 14.00% AA) @ 10 min.
    2.00 oz. Citra (Whole, 10.00% AA) @ Hop-Stand
    1.00 oz. Centennial (Whole, 10.50% AA) @ Hop-Stand
    1.00 oz. Citra (Whole, 10.00% AA) @ Hop-Back
    2.00 oz. Centennial (Whole, 10.50% AA) @ Hop-Back
    2.00 oz. Simcoe (Whole, 14.00% AA) @ Dry Hop #1
    0.50 oz. Citra (Whole, 10.00% AA) @ Dry Hop #1
    2.00 oz. Simcoe (Whole, 14.00% AA) @ Dry Hop #2
    0.50 oz. Citra (Whole, 10.00% AA) @ Dry Hop #2

    http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2012/12/west-coast-ipa-recipe-hop-oil-analysis.html
    ShawDeuce22 and ditch like this.
  8. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    I agree that it is heavy on the early bittering additions, and in need of more late in the boil for aroma and flavor assuming you're aiming for an American IPA. With that said, this could be a good start for an English IPA, but still a little too bitter at first glance.

    Fuggle and Cascade can play very nicely together, but I would ask what it is your hoping for out of this.
  9. Are you doing a concentrated boil? If not, I would guess the Cascade FWH is a waste.

    As a general rule I would suggest 3-4 oz of flavour hops (15 min and in) and 2+ oz or dry hops.
  10. Wow! There are some truly hoppy BAs providing hop schedule advice.

    I make four batches of IPA per year and I have always obtained very good flavor/aroma by using 3-4 ounces of late hops (from 15 minutes until end of boil and dry hopping). This is using American aroma hops (e.g., Centennial, Simcoe, Citra, Amarillo, etc.)

    I made an all Citra hopped IPA with the following hop schedule:

    · 1 oz. Citra hops with 15 minutes remaining in boil
    · 1 oz. Citra hops at end of boil
    · 1.5 oz. Citra hops dry hopped (11 days of contact time)

    After two weeks of bottle conditioning the Citra IPA was carbonated. I had a hard time drinking that beer then; it had too much hop flavor/aroma. I aged it a couple of weeks and the hop flavor/aroma mellowed out and I could then enjoy drinking that beer.

    So, the OP’s recipe of using 4 ounces of late hops in general sounds OK to me.

    Let’s discuss hop selection a bit. American aroma hops tend to be very potent from a hop flavor/aroma perspective. So, using 3-4 ounces of American aroma hops is sufficient but the recipe is also calling for Fuggles hops. I have not personally used Fuggles as a late hop but I have used many other European aroma hops for late hopping (e.g., Saaz, East Kent Golding, Styrian Goldings, Hallertauer Mittelfruh, etc.). It has been my consistent experience that European aroma hops are way less potent from a flavor/aroma perspective. In other words, 1 ounce of a hop like Cascade will provide way more flavor/aroma than a hop such as Fuggles.

    I would highly recommend that the OP try a Great Lakes Commodore Perry IPA (if he hasn’t already) prior to brewing this recipe. I generally like all kinds of IPAs but I do not enjoy drinking Commodore Perry IPA; I suspect that I don’t like the flavor/aroma that the Fuggles provide. Commodore Perry IPA has a ‘weird’ flavor/aroma that I find off putting.
    So, after all this discussion my suggestion is to brew this recipe as is. It is very possible that the First Wort Hopping of Cascade will not be noticed much but I suspect that it won’t hurt anything. If the OP likes Commodore Perry IPA then the late hopping schedule seems appropriate to me.

    Cheers!
  11. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    While I agree that people go overboard with hopping schedules (myself included), there are contributing factors that we often don't consider as well. Example would be that my step father in-law uses less hops than I do, and seems to be able to get just as good in terms of flavor and aroma...I have always assumed this is due to water profile.

    I use much less of the hops you listed than I would with Cascade for late additions, for what it is worth. I believe it is easy to overdo thos four hops (centennial is borderline).

    Just bitterness IMO, but I don't know what scientific experiment to believe when it comes to first wort hopping.
  12. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (290) Michigan Mar 21, 2009

    I like to FWH for IPA's but with the ammount of Magnum at 60 minutes I think your going overboard. FWH with 1 oz cascade and drop your magnum to 3/4 oz. I also like a 15 min. addition. I like Fuggles with EKG's so I would not be afraid to use them with Cascade. Good luck.
  13. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Advocate (595) Colorado Jan 20, 2012

    How'd this one turn out? Just bottled an apa with a similar hop schedule...
    3/4 oz magnum @ 60
    1oz citra @15
    1oz citra @flameout
    1oz citra @14day dryhops. Tasted good at bottling..
  14. My all Citra hopped IPA turned out great. The only ‘issue’ was that the hop flavor/aroma was overpowering after two weeks of bottle conditioning. The solution for me was to just let this batch ‘mature’ for an additional couple of weeks in the bottle. It drank real nice at that point in time.

    Just a potential heads up that some folks perceive a cat piss aroma with Citra. Two friends of my wife were over and they both love IPAs. As they drank the Citra IPA I asked: So, what do you think”. They both replied: “I really like it.” Later one commented that it smelled like cat pee; the other agreed. I thought to myself something like: Oh no. After they finished I asked if they would like a different homebrewed beer. They both replied in unison: “No”. They both asked for another Citra IPA.

    My wife was a former cat owner (and believe me she knows her cat pee) but she didn’t perceive any cat pee.

    Cheers!
  15. Cascade is not a great bittering hop...especially for an IPA, IMHO. I'd nix them and move some of your Magnum to FWH.
  16. chadonde

    chadonde Zealot (95) New York Dec 5, 2008

    Thank you to everyone for the feedback. I totally redid the recipe and posted it on hopville. Any and all feedback is appreciated.

    http://hopville.com/recipe/1666316

    One other question now that I've used hopville. The ibus in hopville are showing at 66.4 but the same amounts and times are showing as only 31.7 in Beersmith. Does anyone know why there's such a discrepancy?
  17. Check your equipment profile in Beersmith...is it set at 5 gal, etc
  18. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Champion (790) Texas May 21, 2010

    Yes, the equipment profile, type of beer (extract, partial mash, all-grain), type of mash etc make a huge difference in beersmith. If you figure it out you'll see your IBUs will be pretty close to what you expect.
  19. Your new hopping schedule looks tasty to me; quite a difference (in terms of hop selection) from the original hop schedule.

    The default hop utilization estimator in hopville is Tinseth:

    66.4IBU
    ƒ:Tinseth

    Is the default estimator in Beersmith Tinseth as well? Different hop utilization estimators (Tinseth vs. Rager vs. Garetz) will yield varying results.

    Good luck with your IPA!

    Cheers!
  20. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    I also don't know what your boil volume is set at in Beersmith, but I do see 5 gallons of collected wort after the boil on Hopville. So Hopville is figuring the utilization based on a full wort boil, are you doing a full wort boil? What is the boil volume set at on Beersmith?
  21. Beersmith=Tinseth for the default. Or so I have been told. Promash= Rager for default, changed mine to Teinseth.
  22. MURICA!

    <<internet high five>>
  23. chadonde

    chadonde Zealot (95) New York Dec 5, 2008

    I think this is it. Beersmith is set to 3 gallons I think, which is what I use. I will have to check it when I get home.

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