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How much will the trade value of Bolt Cutter drop once it gets into distibution?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by ChadQuest, Nov 17, 2012.

  1. You really want to know what "worth" is. Well its really quite simple.

    Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight, gonna grab some afternoon delight.........
    apocalypsezombie likes this.
  2. Hanzo

    Hanzo Champion (955) Virginia Feb 27, 2012

    So an 88 average is now considered not good on this site? Not that you can go by reviews, but I'd say the majority of people that tried FMB and knew what they were getting themselves into at least found the beer adequate.
  3. mtrutlin

    mtrutlin Savant (285) Colorado Apr 4, 2012

    Ok, maybe I'm being a bit harsh. The beer was alright. It was by no means bad. That being said, the quality of the beer was not nearly good enough to have people go crazy trying to obtain it. The fact that all you'd be able to get for it in trade right now is off-the-shelf locals pretty much says it all.
  4. Hanzo

    Hanzo Champion (955) Virginia Feb 27, 2012

    Yeah, I mean it certainly didn't live up to other Founders beers, but could it be compared to Blushing Monk as far as availability and trading stature? (was just looking for a non BA Founders Backstage beer)
  5. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Advocate (615) Oregon Mar 2, 2008

    The mitigating factor here is that the vast majority of beer on this site is excessively overrated. Something like Tactical Nuclear Penguin is a 79. If a beer sucks, people still give it a 3.6 unless it's Budweiser.
    EricCioe, FUNKPhD, ChadQuest and 4 others like this.
  6. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Initiate (0) California Nov 26, 2008

    Yup. If it's below a 90 on this site, it's very likely forgettable.

    A year or two back, Todd revealed that the average grade on BA was around a B/B+.
    ChadQuest, jbuddle, drewba and 3 others like this.
  7. kscaldef

    kscaldef Advocate (690) Oregon Jun 11, 2010

    I love the reviews where they drain poured the beer but still give it better than a 3 rating
  8. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010

    I was able to get 24 bottles of AftW at the release last year. I sent two bottles to a trading partner. He drank one, then tried to trade the other for a King Henry. $4$, they match up. The response he got from multiple people was that because people at the release were able to get 24 bottles and those in the KH distribution area were only able to get 2-3 bottles of King Henry, it was a trade lopsided in his favor and that he should add on his end.

    Most of you guys appear to be arguing that this is a perfectly acceptable practice. This is all sorts of sad, honestly. Both are fantastic beers, but people are so blinded by the attempt to gain an advantage, that both sides miss out on an opportunity to try them.
  9. dvelcich

    dvelcich Savant (330) Illinois Feb 6, 2008

    Most of the people discussing this (at least not myself or the one's I know in this thread) wouldn't ask more for a KH, they just wouldn't trade one for what your friend was offering. They're not trying to "gain an advantage," they would just rather keep their bottle. We don't have to trade one just because the offer is fair.
    MarkIntihar likes this.
  10. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    It's odd to think about, but this is the "issue" when taste actually starts to play a role in "trade value". Some people (myself included) won't trade certain beers because they are favorites, and other people feed off of this knowledge and hold theirs hostage trying to make traders bid against each other.
  11. usually those are the guys who hop into threads saying, "this is too good to trade, it'll take a lot to get it off my hands."

    there are a lot of generous people all around the country, but they sometimes get drowned out by these asshats.
    Kuemmelbrau, cbeer88, drewba and 3 others like this.
  12. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    As opposed to me, who says "this is too good to trade, so fuck you you can't have any" ;)

    This has definitely been my experience as well.
    cavedave and crushedvol like this.
  13. Bluecane, crushedvol and MarkIntihar like this.
  14. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I, for one, don't think it is "acceptable", but it certainly is reality. As already stated at some point in time demand came to be the most important factor in trading these days. And the other side of the argument is your buddy was the one trying to "win" the trade by trading a smaller format, slightly less in demand beer for a KH.

    I 100% see both sides of this debate, there is a load of complaining about it but no real solutions that I see.
  15. Franch

    Franch Advocate (540) New York Mar 22, 2011

    it seems BA scale goes from 3.7ish to 5.0, with huge variations coming around 4.0 (decent/okay beer), 4.1 (a pretty good beer), 4.2 (a very good beer), and 4.3+ (a world-class beer)
  16. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010


    The scenario I was trying to describe was along the lines of my friend posting an ISO for KH, offering AftW 1:1 and getting responses saying, "I have a KH I'm willing to trade, but you've got to add more," citing the reasons in my previous post.

    The point is, I disagree with the argument that you should put weight on how many bottles were available at a release. This complicates things because, as in the example I provided with my trading partner, you're not always dealing with people who were at the release, and who are, or were at some point in time, in possession of the maximum allotment.
  17. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    While we can perhaps agree that it shouldn't affect what you're willing to trade a bottle for, surely you can understand why someone is much more willing to trade "fairly" when they have a lot of bottles of something versus when they only have one or two, right?
    MordorMongo likes this.
  18. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I have tried to make that point as well and fail to understand why it is being dismissed. Whether it should or shouldn't be is another issue entirely, but it makes sense to me. ;)
  19. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010

    Put it this way. If you swapped the two beers, which do you think would be more in demand? HotD KH or Goose Island AftW? I'd put my money on the latter.

    I don't agree with the volume argument, either. There are way too many variables that go into determining fair values when throwing volumes into the mix. Ingredients, aging, etc.

    This is why I think people should just focus on trading good beers at $4$. That seems to be the simplest way to look at it. Add all of the other factors, and things become way too complicated.
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  20. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    I think most of us do. This reeks of an argument between sane people bickering over/justifying the actions of the irrational.
  21. this argument had an awfully different tone when i was saying the same thing as csano.
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  22. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    We just speak softly and more slowly to anyone in the PNW because they aren't real bright up that way. ;)
  23. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010

    Absolutely. But my question is, why should it make a difference? Why should a guy who only has one bottle of a beer be treated differently than someone who has 12?
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  24. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010

    Obviously. We have no rare beers. :)
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  25. LEARN FROM ME DONT START MAN
    Kuemmelbrau and csano like this.
  26. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    You are looking at it backwards, I don't think he should be treated differently, but the person with one bottle to trade will hold on to it for something he really, really wants whereas the other person has 12 and thus is more likely to let one go more easily because he has 11 more. Ironically in my experience it does not work that way as people with the multiples find themselves in a position of more power as there are less overall people who will even consider trading so they better control the trade "value" and have the upper hand, whereas there may be 11 people with one bottle to trade of the other beer so you at least have other options. I still fail to see how you guys don't think the amount of bottles of X someone has is a factor in what they are likely to trade it for. This has nothing to do in my mind with $, it is just a way people justify asking for more. I don't think it is right and think all beer should trade $4$, but let's face it, it doesn't. And Cali folks, PNW folks, NE folks, Florida folks and Midwest folks are ALL guilty of it.
  27. dvelcich

    dvelcich Savant (330) Illinois Feb 6, 2008

    Do I really have to offer you $12 of 312 for your AftW for you to understand?
    ChadQuest likes this.
  28. do you actually think that's a fair comparison?
  29. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010

    I said good beers, didn't I? ;)
    Kuemmelbrau and dvelcich like this.
  30. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Advocate (615) Oregon Mar 2, 2008

    The funny thing about this post is that since KH had a bottle count of 12K (+?) and Adam FtW had ~1800, you're almost making the same trade. :p

    More seriously, people aren't looking at those values, but at: Well, I only got 2 or 3, so I must have whales for it. Which isn't the fault of the other trader - it's the fault of the company spreading the beer over too wide a region.
    dvelcich likes this.
  31. Auracom

    Auracom Savant (300) Illinois Nov 5, 2010

    KH is such a troll beer.

    Let's get back to talking about Bolt Cutter value.
  32. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Tried saying its easier to acquire bottles at brewery only releases than through modern midwest distro, spirals out of control.
    ChadQuest likes this.
  33. I don't think that companies are to blame for my lack of trade ammo.
  34. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Bolt Cutter will be worth 2 AftW to anyone in Midwest and it will take 2 Bolt Cutters to get one AftW if you ask someone from PNW.

    Bolt Cutter will be worth 2 B5 Beats to anyone in Midwest and it will take 2 Bolt Cutters to get one Beat if you ask someone from Cali.


    See the trend here?



    (And lighten up everyone it is just beer and this post is sarcasm but shows the general idea well)
    bpfrush, wittyname and Sarlacc83 like this.
  35. Sarlacc83

    Sarlacc83 Advocate (615) Oregon Mar 2, 2008

    I blame my wife.

    But it is counter-intuitive that a wide distribution plan, which should get a lot of bottles into many hands, ends up 'heightening' the trade value.
    eyeenjoybeer likes this.
  36. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Btw you fuckers think KH was bad........just wait for the Cherry Rye shitshow coming soon to a forum near you.
  37. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Get your multiple AftW's ready.

    Me, im shooting for Churchill's just to continue the midwest/socal blood feud.

    Prepareyouranus.
    libbey, DanGolfs86, Treebs and 4 others like this.
  38. kscaldef

    kscaldef Advocate (690) Oregon Jun 11, 2010

    I certainly understand how it affects the psychology of the "seller". But, on the other hand, in no way does it make the beer any more desirable to the "buyer". This asymmetry is, I think, at the core of this disagreement. I've never gone after KH because to me it's an admittedly very tasty, but still 10,000+ bottle beer that has somehow gone crazy on the forums in a way that violates both rational economic theory and "hey, can't we all just agree to share some good beer and not be assholes". So, I decide to just drink the also very tasty beer that I have, rather than trade it at well off from $4$,r4r and become a "Portlanders don't trade". ;)

    In conclusion: it's just beer and if it causes you stress you're doing it wrong. Because doing it right is drinking the damn thing :D
  39. 3rdto1st

    3rdto1st Savant (260) California Dec 1, 2011

    This is what everybody should remember, after all, it's just beer.
  40. Auracom

    Auracom Savant (300) Illinois Nov 5, 2010

    wat i thought u were supposed to trade then cellar for many years until it drinks real good.

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