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How to handle a possible bad trader?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by xxdcmast, May 1, 2014.

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  1. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    I am not too familiar with the etiquette on this board so I figured I would ask. What is the recommended method for dealing with a possible bad trader? I know the rules state that I am responsible for any beer trading but is there a method to let others know of a bad trader?

    Basically the situation i am in right now is the person I traded with was very responsive to BMs prior to the trade and completely disappeared as soon as I sent the tracking number for the package.Since then the package has been delivered and I have BMd to check if everything came through ok with no response. I can see by their status that they are online and still viewing the forums but ignoring my messages. The strange thing is I have traded with this person once before in the past with no issues and they have very good feedback. This current trade was about $160-170 (12 bottles)

    It has been about two days since the package arrived and a week since Ive had BM contact with this person so just figured i would see what else BA recommends. I'm not going to post any name yet as I am hoping for a good solution to this but just seeing what everyone recommends if not.

  2. Beeryurt

    Beeryurt Savant (280) Wisconsin Mar 8, 2013

    its been over a week with no reply, post their BA name asking what is going on. There is no reason a person can be on BA and not replay on where the beer they owe you is. If that does not do it then leave them a bad trade review.
  3. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    I'm going to hold off on the name and shame for a few more days. He has 100% positive feedback so I don't want to ruin that over a misunderstanding. But if I don't hear back I will be releasing his name here and on other sites where he hangs out.
    mythaeus likes this.
  4. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    If it does come down to posting his name do post it here or in the ISO FT forum or both?
  5. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator (635) Massachusetts Mar 12, 2005 Staff Member Verified

    post it here here on this thread.

    plus, you should tag him so he gets a notification that this thread exists.
  6. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    How would I tag him?
  7. Jshari223

    Jshari223 Savant (335) Georgia Nov 13, 2013 Verified

    Put the @ in front of his user name @xxdcmast.
  8. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    @Dontcounttoday I've sent you messages over the past week. I would appreciate a response letting me know if my shipment arrived safe and what/when I can expect my shipment. Thanks.
  9. markgugs

    markgugs Poobah (1,205) New Jersey Dec 20, 2006 Verified

    FWIW almost ALL of his 36 positive trades are from a long time ago - they're just new comments once the feedback system was implemented late last year. Hope the dude comes clean for you. Thanks for bringing this to the community's attention and let's all just hope for a positive outcome with what looks to be an okay trader & BA.
  10. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator (635) Massachusetts Mar 12, 2005 Staff Member Verified

    FTFY. lol. mods gotta mod.

    to me at least, far more interesting (and perhaps concerning?) are his six (6) pending and thirteen (13) open trades. :eek:

    personally, i think two days is a bit too soon to call someone out, but what's done is done. if you end up short OP, BM me. i'll see if i can help make it right (gotta support my MA guys, right?).

    this thread will stay up (if possible) as a reference point for all.
  11. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    Like I said I've traded with him in the past and it came through well. So I'm hoping for a positive resolution.
  12. Yah unfortunately all those open or pending trades don't look good. He hasn't posted an ISO for quite a while so it looks like all those possible trades are trades he has answered. Hope things work out. What bottles did you send him?
  13. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    I sent him a pretty good selection of nightshift bottles. 6 ever Weiss - 3 new bottles and 3 bottles from separate batches last year kind of a mini vertical. Then I also added 6 other bottles of their art and barrel society bottles.

    Nothing super rare but as I said around 160-170 worth of beer. I guess if your gonna scam go big.
  14. tommyz

    tommyz Advocate (570) Michigan May 28, 2007 Verified

    I hope he settles up with you...I mean he contributes here in conversations so its not like he is someone who "hides".....Man up @Dontcounttoday and give the man a response..
  15. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    Yea that's one of the good things with BA is that over the past week as I've been sending him messages I've seen his last online times changing so I know he was active and seeing them.

    If there is a legit reason for the delay in a trade just let me know and I'll be fine but no contact leads to suspicion.
    tommyz likes this.
  16. blue-dream

    blue-dream Moderator (965) Illinois Aug 22, 2013 Staff Member Verified

    what was he going to send you?
  17. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    The trade was pretty open ended on his part. The two major bottles were a 13 and 14 DL and the rest was just going to be chicago/midwest stuff. To me the nightshift beer is a local so i usually trade them $4$ for other quality locals which in his area would probably have been FFF/pipeworks/etc.
  18. kmello69

    kmello69 Advocate (645) Texas Nov 27, 2011 Verified

    Officially a "bad trader" or not, he's a very bad communicator, which I find equally problematic.

    Rule #1 for me is to get a cell phone #. If a person won't give me theirs, we're not moving forward.

    Hope it all works out for ya, OP.
    mythaeus, cavedave and markgugs like this.
  19. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    Just got a PM from him apologizing for the lack of communication over the past few days. Says the package should be going out in the next few days. Will keep everyone updated.
    cavedave and tommyz like this.
  20. lookrider

    lookrider Advocate (510) Pennsylvania Apr 22, 2007 Verified

    Sometimes you have to take action here to get a response. Even though it was a fairly short time in which to call him out, he brought it on himself through his own rudeness in having received a box from you, reading your messages, and not giving you the courtesy of a reply or a thank you. Had you not tagged him and brought this out, who knows how long it may have gone before you heard from him.
    smutty33 and cavedave like this.
  21. markgugs

    markgugs Poobah (1,205) New Jersey Dec 20, 2006 Verified

    I wish I could like this post multiple times.

    I won't trade with bad communicators, drives me nuts.
  22. Dontcounttoday

    Dontcounttoday Advocate (560) Illinois Apr 23, 2010 Verified

    Holy shit man! I gotta say I am super surprised by this post. I have traded with @xxdcmast on 2 previous occasions. I have over 100 trades and never sent a box that didnt make it 100% in tact to its destination and definitely never failed to send completely.

    XXdc your box arrived on my doorstep Tuesday. You messaged me 3 times since then and I'm sorry I was very busy this week. Some of the bottles being sent are Dark Lords which I only acquired this weekend, and I told you my tasting group had to gather some bottles for you.

    Seriously, I expect this kind of thing if there is a communication failure for over a week or something, but its been less than 2 days since your box got here. I woke up this morning to find you reported me to mods on /r/tradebeer and made this post. Its insulting, especially considering we have a trade history.
    jshusc and jrnyc like this.
  23. cavedave

    cavedave Poobah (1,060) New York Mar 12, 2009 Verified

    I agree with almost all you say, OP was pretty quick on the trigger with a partner, but really?

    Your day is that crammed busy, completely empty of the 20 seconds free time it would take? You just actually can't find those seconds to let partner know the box arrived safely, all intact, and to say thank you? Really? So, it's none of my business, but... really?

    Perhaps you can temper your feeling of insult with this point of view?
    marleyr, Retrocentric, tommyz and 2 others like this.
  24. Dontcounttoday

    Dontcounttoday Advocate (560) Illinois Apr 23, 2010 Verified

    For the record, my last response to XXdc via BMs here on BA, was on April 23rd, giving him my address. He next responded with a tracking number on this past Friday, before DLD. He then sent 2 more messages. 1 on Monday of this week telling me to expect the package on Tuesday, and then again on Tuesday to tell me the package was marked as delivered. I didnt get the package in my hands until Wednesday and I meant to reply (that was yesterday) but life was keeping me busy and I didnt get to it. I replied first thing this morning, after I found all this.

    Jesus Christ you guys really like to jump to ridiculous conclusions. Look at those pending and open trades. They are mostly from a bunch of guys Ive traded with a long time ago (though some are recent) but havent used the BA trading tool at all OR they may just not recall trades from years ago. I keep a spreadsheet of all my trades so I just filled it all out at once when the site added the feature. I didnt message them to ask them to accept the trade or whatever, and if they don't recall it thats fine.

    My trade history is more accurately kept here. Anyone is free to contact any of those people to verify my trades themselves. Yes I have slowed down on trading with new people in the past now that I have a pretty good network, I'm sorry if that signifies I'm not a great trader or something.

    I am pissed off that I even have to justify this situation that is not accurately represented by the OP.
    jrnyc likes this.
  25. Dontcounttoday

    Dontcounttoday Advocate (560) Illinois Apr 23, 2010 Verified

    He has my email and cell phone number. Did not use those.
    jrnyc likes this.
  26. C20Percent

    C20Percent Savant (335) Virginia Aug 24, 2011

    Hmm...tough one to analyze. I think trading partners should provide each other with the date they plan to ship. I'm not really a fan of sending beer too far in advance of receiving beer. Or, vice versa.

    Given they had traded before, and that trade must have gone smoothly, I think I probably would have given Dontcounttoday the benefit of the doubt. You do have to consider that XXdc could tell that DCT was being active on BA, but still not acknowledging the BMs.
    tommyz and cavedave like this.
  27. prdstmnky

    prdstmnky Savant (455) Vermont Jan 8, 2010 Verified

    That is what most people have a problem with! Shit happens, people get busy, etc...no one expects things to always be perfect. But communication is essential in such situations. Honestly, i dont care how good someones trade history is....iF you have the time to come on BA and read a message, you have 30 seconds to respond to it, and I wont trade with anyone who feels thats ok.
  28. blue-dream

    blue-dream Moderator (965) Illinois Aug 22, 2013 Staff Member Verified

    well i have done trades for hundreds worth of beer and shipped out months later, of corse my good trading buddy @zookerman182 was relayed that info. Maybe @Dontcounttoday read the msgs and couldn't reply because its a bitch to type on a phone. I would have given him at least a week with no reply before reporting him. But as others have said always get phone numbers, dosen't take more than a min to call someone. And remember even tho it might be hundreds in beer it is still only beer.... Now i need a beer, and maybe a shot.
    zookerman182 likes this.
  29. tommyz

    tommyz Advocate (570) Michigan May 28, 2007 Verified

    This...If you have a trade open and your partner messages you and you read it, you do have the 20 seconds to type a message and answer it..that is fact...

    With that said, im glad its being handled and was just miscommunication on communication
  30. kmello69

    kmello69 Advocate (645) Texas Nov 27, 2011 Verified

    Interesting. OP why would you post something here about him potentially being a bad trader without having first tried to contact him via means other than BMs? If you had his cell and email, why not try those first.

    Seems like things were a little off on both ends, although now I'm leaning more towards OP jumping the gun on this one, because of some slightly off communication.
    riemster, jshusc, mythaeus and 6 others like this.
  31. Kramerbarthomer

    Kramerbarthomer Poobah (1,040) Colorado Mar 22, 2012 Verified

    I think everyone should just cool their jets... sounds like both people will be getting their boxes here.. and that this was just a huge communication error... Both traders here are probably slightly at fault... but just let this one go guys.. I think all will be well in the end. Just go home tonight and have a beer!
  32. daryk77

    daryk77 Advocate (570) District of Columbia Jun 16, 2005 Verified

    I think the OP was a bit eager on calling out @Dontcounttoday given it has only been two days since the box landed and the fact he has both his email a cell phone, definitely use those first before creating a bad trader thread. Just curious if OP knew that you would be shipping later because you had to acquire said bottles for the trade?

    Generally I like to agree when each party is going to ship up front to avoid any confusion and keep expectations in check. I do appreciate a trader informing me that the box the box arrived intact within 24hours after it has been delivered, or at least an update. However, I wouldn't consider them to be a bad trader if they did not, especially if I had traded with them before and everything was fine.

    Agree with @Kramerbarthomer, have a beer and move on.
    blue-dream likes this.
  33. jrnyc

    jrnyc Champion (850) New York Mar 21, 2010 Verified

    I was going to reply to this thread this morning, but didn't. But now I see the situation has evolved. OP was way too quick on the trigger finger to call someone a possible bad trader based on these circumstances.
  34. jaltland

    jaltland Savant (425) Pennsylvania Aug 13, 2009

    @F2brewers Probably time to lock this one up!
    daryk77 likes this.
  35. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator (635) Massachusetts Mar 12, 2005 Staff Member Verified

    Close...but I'd prefer to wait until the OP receives his box and publicly acknowledges that things are square between him and his trade partner.
    cavedave likes this.
  36. jaltland

    jaltland Savant (425) Pennsylvania Aug 13, 2009

    Got ya. I hope this all works out. We've been seeing/hearing about way too many bad trader concerns. Thanks for modding like a boss. Cheers!
    F2brewers likes this.
  37. xxdcmast

    xxdcmast Zealot (95) Massachusetts May 14, 2013

    I will admit that I probably jumped the gun on crying wolf for a bad trader. What really threw me was that I saw him still active on the forum but not replyin to any bms. I should have tried to call him and resolve this before.

    We have exchanges a few bms and it was clear there was failures of communication on both ends. He should be shipping soon and once received I will remove/delete this post.

    I want to apologize for any trouble this may have caused and especially for any bad press/reputation I may have caused @Dontcounttoday
    tommyz and F2brewers like this.
  38. tommyz

    tommyz Advocate (570) Michigan May 28, 2007 Verified

    I personally dont look at either of you as bad...Just bad communication on BOTH parts really...But glad it worked out on both ends and a nice learning experience for both imo...Cheers
  39. Sorry to bring this up in a thread about someone else, but I've got the same problem. Shipped some beers over from the UK to US and the recipient informed me that the parcel arrived safely. As I'm new on here I agreed to ship first.

    Unfortunately he's now gone quiet on me but is still active on the site. Last reply was the start of April. @ChrisMetcalfe What's happening?

    He has an open trade with someone else and 100% feedback (8/8). Any advice or can I completely say goodbye to these beers.

    Cheers for your advice
  40. Kramerbarthomer

    Kramerbarthomer Poobah (1,040) Colorado Mar 22, 2012 Verified

    Id recommend starting up a brand new thread specific to this trade. Looks like he hasn't been on BA since April 21 though. Not a great sign...but I hope it all
    Works out.
    jrnyc, tommyz, cavedave and 1 other person like this.
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