Irish Red: An actual style?

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by nick0417, Jan 20, 2016.

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  1. nick0417

    nick0417 Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2014 Illinois

    Hey, BAers: I don’t remember from what source – a podcast, article, etc – but I was recently told Irish Red Ales are not an actual style native to Ireland. In other words, this style was more or less created by some of the countries bigger breweries and then populated throughout the rest of Europe and the U.S. as a traditional Irish beer. Is there any truth to this? Obviously, this doesn’t devalue Irish Reds as a style and I’m not attempting to do so – just curious about the history.

    Also, recommendations for a good Irish Red with decent distro? When I was first getting into beer, my local brewpub had an Irish Red on all the time and it was definitely one of my gateway beers, and I’m looking to rediscover the style now a few years on.
     
  2. BMBCLT

    BMBCLT Grand Pooh-Bah (3,403) May 9, 2014 South Carolina
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  3. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,301) Nov 20, 2005 England
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    It's no different from a host of ordinary bitters which can range in colour from pale gold to copper.
    The Irish beer group Beior did a tasting and the conclusion was "The second proven thesis from the evening's tippling is that Irish Red is not a real beer style. On the night, nobody was confident about which was Smithwick's and which was Bass, even though one is supposedly an Irish "red ale" and the other a British "keg bitter". Kilkenny was easily spotted since it had a nitro head, but had John Smith's or Tetley's Smooth been in the mix, I think there would have been some contention. Likewise there was no way either craft beer was going to be mistaken for a mass-produced ale like Bass, but a quality British red keg ale -- Brewdog 5am Saint, for instance -- would, I believe, have muddied the water considerably. Until further tests are carried out, I think my hypothesis that "Irish Red" is simply keg bitter stands."

    http://www.beoir.org/index.php?opti...sh-red-paradox&catid=33:beoir-meets&Itemid=95
     
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  4. nick0417

    nick0417 Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2014 Illinois

    Thanks, man. Although I think the question still remains: Is this style native to Ireland? Is this truly indicative of Irish brewing culture/history?
     
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  5. utopiajane

    utopiajane Initiate (0) Jun 11, 2013 New York

    I have always thought that conway's irish ale is a great example of this style. This year it is drinking exceptionally well . Very dry biscuit malt with hints of hops on a firm but brief caramel. Nutty, round and after you think you're gonna swoon from all that malt, hops meet the finish boldly to make it go down so easily. On their bottle they have a blurb about the biscuit and caramel flavor being "just the ticket." I can picture someone saying with a thick brogue "caramel and biscuit that's the ticket."
     
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  6. nick0417

    nick0417 Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2014 Illinois

    Been wanting to try this one. Hope it arrives in my neck of the woods - we get Great Lakes standard set, but seasonals are a bit of an unknown.
     
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  7. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Find some O'Hara's Irish Red and thank me later. Brewed, bottled, and consumed in Ireland (among other happy nations).

    Marquis left out the first "proven thesis" from his linked article:
    *Of which Smithwick's (in the second thesis) definitely is.

    Compared to a keg bitter, I'd edge the malt to the Irish Red. Maybe closer to a Special or Best Bitter? Couldn't say, but there's a different quality in the malt flavors too. Splitting hairs? Maybe.
     
    #7 steveh, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
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  8. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
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    It has developed from Pale Ales brewed in Ireland. Things like Smithwicks and Perry's.
     
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  9. TonyLema1

    TonyLema1 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2008 South Carolina

    According to the 2015 edition of BJCP Beer Style Guidelines it is


     
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  10. patto1ro

    patto1ro Pooh-Bah (1,998) Apr 26, 2004 Netherlands
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    So is Robust Porter, the ultimate made-up style.
     
  11. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Initiate (0) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    Most of what's written in the BJCP guidelines should be taken with a grain of salt. The guidelines are certainly not the 'last word'.
     
  12. AngryDutchman

    AngryDutchman Zealot (669) Aug 8, 2015 Pennsylvania

    Beer is beer.
     
  13. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,301) Nov 20, 2005 England
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    They are designed for homebrewing competitions to enable competitors to enter their beers in the right category.

    But back to Irish Red , brewing in Ireland has always been based on British styles such as Pale Ale and Porter.You could slip a so-called Irish Red onto an English bar and nobody would notice because it's so like many of the others.Or even a Scottish bar http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/118/3329/
    This is listed on BA as a Scottish Ale which simply means an ale brewed in Scotland.
     
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  14. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado

    On a personal level, I don't care what they're called. When it comes down to it, I really have only two beer styles: Beers that I like and beers that I don't like.
     
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  15. nick0417

    nick0417 Initiate (0) Jun 13, 2014 Illinois

    Thanks for the input, folks. Any recommendations of good representations to seek out? Gonna hope like hell I can get some of GL's Conway's Red because I trust GL without question...
     
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  16. LuskusDelph

    LuskusDelph Initiate (0) May 1, 2008 New Jersey

    Precisely. That's the point I've been trying to make to beer nerds for 25 years, and a common language for homebrew competitions was the sole (and stated) purpose for the guidelines. LOL.
    They have little to no relevance outside of that arena.:wink:
     
  17. captaincoffee

    captaincoffee Pooh-Bah (2,194) Jul 10, 2011 Virginia
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    Good representations of not-a-style? Tough...
     
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  18. steveh

    steveh Grand Pooh-Bah (4,030) Oct 8, 2003 Illinois
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    Something I'd never noticed previously, the Bros give respectful consideration to the BJCP in their How to Review a Beer section:
    People always seem to forget that the BJCP uses commercial examples of style to give direction and support their guidelines. It's always good to have a few sources to follow.
     
    #18 steveh, Jan 20, 2016
    Last edited: Jan 20, 2016
  19. jhavs

    jhavs Grand Pooh-Bah (3,551) Apr 16, 2015 New York
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    Harpoon Celtic Ale is a decent representation IMO. I'm not sure about the distro, but most Harpoon brews spread around.
     
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  20. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,301) Nov 20, 2005 England
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    There will no doubt be many beers labelled as "Irish Red" but that doesn't imply that it's a distinct style.
    Problem is that brewers, despite their expertise in brewing, often have little knowledge about beer itself.As there is so much garbage written about beer (even in the Oxford Guide and CAMRA publications) the tendency is to follow "public knowledge" however flawed this is.For example this IPA brewed by Marston's ;
    [​IMG]
    This from a brewery dating back to 1839 which didn't even check its own brewing records.It's utter drivel from start to finish.
    If the Irish beer association accepts that Irish Red isn't a style why do people persist ?
    Don't fear, as it's indistinguishable from Bitter (itself another name for Pale Ale) just look for a Bitter from the redder end of the spectrum.
     
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