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KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'US - Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. I was at the KBS release on Saturday. My wife and I ended up being the last few to get some, maybe like 5 more people behind us. When I got there I for sure thought I was on the outside looking in, and I was. Even after they handed out the tickets and they ended at 625, which was about 10 people in front of me. I stuck it out and was rewarded.

    I am not going to pull the blinds over my eyes and pretend that the people in the first 300 did not have right to be upset. Sure they do. But I think after some time has passed I hope they realize it was the right thing to do. For them to claim more loyalty than someone else is absurd. This coming from the same people who it is probably their first KBS Day. I was there last year, got there at 7:30am, and was number 79. So I thought, sure more people this year, let's get there an hour early. Never did I think I would be number 630+ in line. And the line just kept growing.

    All and all I had a great time. Tried some great beers, met a bunch of cool people that traveled from all over, etc. I stayed and got a couple of beers in the tap room as well, and just enjoyed myself.

    The people in front doing all the complaining are the same ones that are trading it away and bringing "mules" with them that probably could care less about KBS and what it is all about. If I was one of those people I would argue that if they get beer it is their right to do what they want with it. I would agree. I would also argue that if I can convince someone else to stay outside with me for 10 hours, then that is also their right. I would agree. However, what they are missing is that this is Founder's release, their product, their day, so they also have the right to do whatever they want. And they choose to spread their insanely popular beer out to more people. For that I tip my hat to them. We are all supposed to be beer lovers and advocates, so it does surprise me that there is so much hate for them getting it into more people’s hands.

    I would like to thank the people that walked by us and laughed at us for staying in line. As well as the people in front of us that left because they felt like they had no chance. No love for the people that cut and screwed some people behind us that were honest.

    Also, I do not think a ticket system is the way to go. One of the things that keeps me from making more of an effort for DLD is I just can't get over that they are making me pay for the right to buy their beer. I did it for the XV Anniversary party, and just felt like I got ripped off. I really think they should say everyone line up between 9:30 and 10:30, at that time they will hand out tickets, based on how many tickets they hand out they will divide the amount of beer they have for sale by that and everyone with a ticket has the right to buy their allotment. No one would know beforehand, you take that risk. So for this year, say there were 1,000 people in line and 314 cases or 7,536 bottles, everyone would have the option to buy 7 bottles. This way there is no advantage to getting there early or waiting in line (other than sharing awesome beer with awesome
     
  2. steebo777

    steebo777 Advocate (535) Michigan Jun 30, 2009

    Don't forget most people only post about the negatives. I would say more people than not had a great time all around and enjoyed other people's company. Most places I went in line everyone was smiling and making the best of the cold weather. I'm definitely glad I went.

    With how busy it was, we just hit up Hop Cat for a bit and went around GR before heading back to Founders. I didn't wanna get stabbed for allotment, so I quietly put my 9 cases in the car. More pics to come ;)
     
    Rempo and GrueLurks like this.
  3. GrueLurks

    GrueLurks Aficionado (190) Michigan Jul 21, 2008

    Wait until I post the two cases I got coming without attending the event. :D
     
  4. My son and I were no. 48 & 49, and in line at around 9:30 pm Friday. We went 2 days early to celebrate his birthday and enjoy our first ever beer release. When we arrived at founders on Thursday, we asked what to expect as far as when the line might start, and what might we do to ensure we get our two cases. We were told it was a 300 case release, 1 case per person and that the line started last year around midnight. We were told that if we were not one of the 300 on line, we had little chance of getting any, although if some people did not buy their whole case a few people farther down the line may get some. In the morning at around 10:00 am as they handed us our tickets we were told the allotment was now 12 instead of a case. Bottom line is never ever take founders at their word, or what they put on their web site. They mislead 300 people, most who love Founders beer. They tarnished their good name and that sucks!
     
  5. steebo777

    steebo777 Advocate (535) Michigan Jun 30, 2009

    How did they tarnish their good name? The line DID start about midnight last year. Things changed when over 1000 people showed up so they had to cut allotment. Everyone around us (101-109) expected the allotment to be cut. Breweries have been known to do it in the past so this isn't a new thing at all. I'm still not sure why people think this is such a big deal.
     
  6. wintbs379

    wintbs379 Savant (300) Michigan Mar 13, 2009

    Because 2 people NEED 48 bottles of KBS...geesh!
     
    TheMonk41 and vivasbeer like this.
  7. Lol.. "Tarnished their good name"..

    "Mislead 300 people"...
     
    decadance and Tony412 like this.
  8. sacullen

    sacullen Aficionado (245) Illinois Oct 14, 2008

    This thread is even better than all the butthurt, entitled Fiona Apple fans who got shut out of Lincoln Hall here in Chicago a couple weeks ago. Reading their shit on Facebook was hilarious! The only difference is those people actually followed through and did not support LH after they added a second show and tickets were available for 45 minutes. I really wish I could believe the people who say they are done with Founders truly mean it. It's pretty sad when I have to say Fiona Apple geeks are better than beer geeks.
     
  9. Jerome1929

    Jerome1929 Savant (275) Michigan Sep 11, 2008

    I agree, this thread and the posts on founders website are hilarious. The people who got *only* 12 bottles are whining? Haha, "How dare founders cut down MY allotment". I'm glad I didn't go because it seems like a complete bitchfest. Sure, I can see how people could be frustrated without getting any beer, but if you know what KBS is you already know the insane demand it has.
     
  10. decadance

    decadance Savant (385) Texas Mar 14, 2010

    To all of those feeling butthurt, just stop spending money at founders, for founders, and cease coming to events. If you think it will touch their bottom line, you are wrong. They pleased more with their move than upset.
     
  11. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I am still waiting for someone butthurt to man up, admit and prove they decided not to buy ANY when they found out how bad Founders bent them over with the allotment change. If you want to make a stand, MAKE A STAND. Don't sit there and accept a reach-around then cry later they stopped short of completion.
     
    CWBlues likes this.
  12. As far as the vast distribution outside of the state, my bottle shop in MA is getting one 4-pack. I just want to thank all of you that were bitching about this release. I just killed 45 minutes at work with a huge smile on my face and this afternoon has totally flown by, so the day wasn't a complete waste of your time after all. Cheers!
     
  13. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    So people who drove 300+ miles for a case and are upset about the allotment cut should have drove 300+ miles back home empty handed

    or shut up?

    I don't follow that logic.
     
  14. I agree with you decadance, and will do exactly as you suggest, with the exception of thinking I could possibly hurt their bottom line by not purchasing their beer.
     
  15. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I don't understand why if they are pledging to never buy another Founders product or support them in any way they still chose to buy the 12. Seems like if you are THAT hurt by it you would say screw you & no thanks. A bit hypocritical to say you are "done" with Founders but let me just take this one last parting gift. Just my opinion of course, but reeks of BS. My bet is once the butthurt wears off they will be buying Founders again, they make good beer and made a decision they thought was the correct one at the time.
     
    vivasbeer likes this.
  16. Founders does not have any integrity!
     
  17. I just can't believe someone is willing to bid up a 4 pack of KBS to $81..with 1d 3h left...just insane.

    I'm glad you only got a half a case sucka....I hope you blew two tires on the way in, and again on the way home
     
  18. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Because again, many of them had driven hundreds of miles.

    I wasn't upset that they dropped the allotment but can understand why others were. If they announced in advance the limit was a half case many people wouldn't have traveled so far, including myself.
     
  19. jefeld

    jefeld Aficionado (185) Illinois Mar 31, 2010

    actually after standing for that many hours in the cold, of course you would cut your losses and take whats available. who would just walk away empty handed, whether angry or not?
     
  20. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I am not saying I would, but I also wouldn't buy the half case and then post how I am never going to buy another Founder's beer as long as I live. I would have bought the 12, likely been a bit pissed about it, and moved on.....not abandon a brewery that makes excellent products for trying to do the right thing.
     
  21. jeebus23

    jeebus23 Aficionado (155) Illinois Mar 19, 2010

    No, just the people that say they will never buy another Founders product again after the deceptive bate and switch tactics Founders used. I'm sure not one of those people went home empty handed.
     
  22. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009


    Yes, agree, it DOES suck. But it was Founder's call to make, there was no contract, they did what they thought was best. I would have bought the 12, just wouldn't do so then only to pledge later the same day I won't buy one of their beers again. It is just an opinion.
     
  23. For the most part all the complainers on this thread sound like spoiled, entitled, pretentious brats.

    Who gives a crap if your bottle count went down... it's only bottles and they are distributed. You could still have it on draft and you could still have a huge bottle share inside. You still got 12.

    You didn't hear any bitching when CCB lowered the Hunahpu limit from 3 to 2... Maybe complaining is just a Northern thing.
     
  24. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Well, the cutoff for getting beer was about 5:30, right? And they opened at like 11:30? Probably took like 3 hours to get through the line, so that's about 8 hours standing in line (some people more, maybe some less). That 8 hours plus 4.50 a bottle gets you 12 bottles. So that means if someone sells all 12 bottles at $20 each they made about $23 per hour. Which is roughly the equivalent of a $41k salary. Not exactly great money, but not terrible. Either way, if you value your time more than ~$25/hour and want some KBS, not a bad way to get it.
     
  25. decadance

    decadance Savant (385) Texas Mar 14, 2010

    They also did it three days before the event.
     
    TATURBO likes this.
  26. Dcv

    Dcv Aficionado (240) Michigan Nov 12, 2009

    I am happy that the allotment got cut in half. I really would not have been upset if I got shut out, I knew the risk of me not getting any KBS was high based on where I was at in line, and the number of people cutting in line. However there were plenty of people outside of the first 300 that drove in from many hours away. I think for them the positive of getting a half case far outweighed the negative feelings some of the first 300 had not getting a full case.

    I was at the 2010 Dark Lord Day when they cut the bottle limit to 3, yes it sucked but I moved on with life and did not bitch about the change.

    On the other end of the spectrum, I was lucky enough to be the third person in line at the 2010 Four Elf party, it all evens out.
     
  27. paslaugh

    paslaugh Aficionado (170) Illinois Feb 17, 2012

    It's easy to focus on the negatives. I was a bit put off at first, but hey it's just beer and we all got to have some awesome brews that we probably hadn't tried before. That was the best part anyway. Knowing what I know now, I probably would have stayed in Chicago for the night and driven in around 5am instead.

    I really feel bad for those that drove hundreds of miles, showed up around 5am, realized that they wouldn't get a case at number 500 or so, and drove back home empty handed. Only to find out if they would have stayed in line they would have snagged half a case.

    As far as solutions for next year:

    1) Tiered allotments (First 100 get a case, next 100 get half a case, everyone else can buy a 4 pack)
    2) Less out-of-state distribution in bottles to be sure you can satisfy the demand of those who actually drive to your brewery to buy it
    3) More out-of-state kegs to loyal bars for special events (the best way to guarantee that the maximum amount of loyals get to try it)
    4) Numbered wristbands handed out at least 3-4 hours before the place opens to prevent line jumping
    5) More toilets, trash cans, and recycling bins

    Did I miss anything?
     
  28. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Tiered allotment is a terrible idea. Think line cutting and camping are bad now? Just imagine if someone did that. I'll go Levitation and say if someone does a tiered allotment a fight would break out.

    I think these types of releases need to either be normal distribution (whatever's released at the brewery is silent) or all at the brewery. Breaking it up the way Founders does now is crazy.
     
    decadance and Steimie like this.
  29. mike409

    mike409 Aficionado (200) Michigan Jan 25, 2012

    my wife and I were 100-101 in line arrived at 1130pm went inside for a few pints and meet a fellow ba for a trade spent the next 10 hours having arguably the best tasting of beer i have been to so far in my short time on ba/rb. also meet alot of very cool new friends and had a blast with some newer friends i have recently made from ba. also introduced my wife to the madness of beer release:). am i mad founders cut the allotment hell no! why? because seriously people with gas at 4 per gallon 9% of usa out of work children starving here and other countrys i am just happy to be able to buy and enjoy this great beer. founders did the most generous thing that they could maybe some of you should go check out the free beer contests from rb all last week because i thought all the "beer" people were generous? and to tell me you whould not have made the trip for 1/2 case seriously? what diffrence is 12 more beers in the grand scale of life? maybe dont pre trade next time. also i want to know from the 1-300 in line why did you show up so early when the normal arrival time last year was 6-7am? i arrived so early because i needed to be in and out so i could drive 2 hours back to work for my 3pm shift:) so as arnold would say "STOP WHINNING!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
     
    Number45forever likes this.
  30. mike409

    mike409 Aficionado (200) Michigan Jan 25, 2012

    ok here is the solution for every one who drove 300 miles next year you need a valid michigan ID to get a case!
     
  31. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Pssh, I didn't even need valid identification to buy CBS.

    Also, I wonder if the economy of western Michigan would be similar to that of the eastern side if it weren't for all of those out of staters.
     
  32. Jparkanzky

    Jparkanzky Initiate (0) Ohio Apr 5, 2011

    Comparing the economy of Eastern MI. to Wester MI, is like comparing Rosanne Barr's Left ass-cheek with her Right.
     
  33. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Yes...and a big reason in tourism.
     
  34. paslaugh

    paslaugh Aficionado (170) Illinois Feb 17, 2012

    I got there so early because I wanted to party well into the night and share some great beers. I had to be back in Chicago in the early afternoon, so I figured I could sober up in the morning, buy some KBS, and be on my way back home. I had an awesome time drinking fantastic rare brews well into 3am just watching the line grow before hitting the sack. I'm really glad I was able to meet some really cool people. Mad props to Jimmy for bringing the propane patio heater. The atmosphere was electric!

    Forgot one more suggestion for Founders: Dont make people wait in lines twice. After people purchase their allotment, form a secondary number based queue that allows them to alternate turns entering the bar with the people standing in the "pub only" line. I wanted to try the Sumatra Mountain Brown, but there was no way I was going to wait in line for another two hours just to get into a bar.
     
  35. Infinite KBS wouldn't be enough.
     
  36. Founders does have some of the nicest bartenders and customers any business could hope for. I got to meet a lot of really cool people and had a great time for the most part.

    I put a lot of time, money, and planning into getting this beer for my friends and family. The day of the event was not the time to change the allotment, it is just plain wrong to do to people.
     
  37. Yea, and you can't get Hunahpu in distribution either

    If driving hours and hours to go to a release JUST for the stuff on draft and the social tasting atmosphere isn't enough then I think that you have the wrong hobby...
     
    superspak likes this.
  38. mike409

    mike409 Aficionado (200) Michigan Jan 25, 2012

    thank you :) founders is rated 2nd best brewery in us should be worth the 3 hour drive to have some beers in the pub plus grand rap has a shit ton of other breweries
     
  39. I can safely answer ... No.
     
  40. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Savant (325) Michigan Mar 14, 2011

    If they really wanted to "please everyone," why wasn't the allotment reduced to 6 or 8 beers? 1 or 2? At what point does it become rediculous?

    I don't think some people understand the "first come, first served" idea. Just because you came at a certain time last year doesn't mean that you can come around that time this year and then be pissed you didn't get any. All of the "cutoff times" being talked about are purely speculation at how many people will be in line.

    I waited 10 hours for KBS because I wanted to ensure that I got a case. I knew if I came back the next morning, there would be no way I would be one of the first 300, especially after you factor in the line cutters. I am in no way saying that I am unappreciative of what I received or that I regret going because I "only got half a case".

    The only thing that I ask is that Founders keeps true to their word in the future. I do believe that there was enough forethought here that people could have been warned at least slightly ahead of time (630 pre-printed numbers; 100 people lined up by midnight the night before, etc). I probably would have tried to sleep at least an hour or two if I had known that I could be 500 people back and still get some.

    Other than being slightly dissappointed at my unneeded lack of sleep, I had a great time with some great people. I would love to hang out with a lot of you guys again; I just don't know if I will go on a 36 hour bender again just to ensure I get some limited-release beer.

    I will say that I am slightly apprehensive about going to this event again though. I mean, who's to say that this won't happen again? And at what point would it not be worth it between the lack of sleep/gas money/travel time/etc? I might just stick to local tastings if I want to hang out with like minded people without investing too much time and money.
     

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