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KBS Statement from Founders

Discussion in 'Great Lakes' started by Mattmc1973, Mar 10, 2012.

  1. Jose2412

    Jose2412 Savant (250) Michigan Feb 25, 2012

    I'm pretty sure they had the capability to print more tickets if they needed them. They didn't exactly look professionally made.

    I for one decided not to wear my tinfoil hat and believe that this was a decision made that morning, not a premeditated attempt to mislead their loyal followers.
  2. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Savant (360) Michigan Mar 14, 2011

    Yeah, I don't feel "betrayed" or "stabbed in the back" or anything like a few of the people on here. I do believe that they had good intentions for what they did and in the end, 300 people will more than likely quit their whinning and keep buying Founders soon.
    I'm just saying that a little bit of advanced notice would have been a much more ideal situation. I just don't want to invest in a situation where the end result could still be uncertain.
    Even if it was anounced ahead of time that it was a limit of 6 beers, I probably would have gone anyway. Would I have gotten in line at 1 am? Hell no.
    nanobrew likes this.
  3. decadance

    decadance Savant (395) Texas Mar 14, 2010

    You sound sensible sir, and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
    nanobrew likes this.
  4. Jose2412

    Jose2412 Savant (250) Michigan Feb 25, 2012

    I agree, if they would have cut the allotment a week ahead of time I'm sure it would have alleviated alot of the headaches with everyone getting there so early in the morning.
  5. biga7346

    biga7346 Savant (265) Michigan Jun 19, 2010

    There is literally nothing I can add to this post at this point, all great points on both sides. From a personal standpoint, I arrived precisely at 6 a.m., met some awesome people, shared some awesome beers and thank god Founders accounted for the people who couldn't waste a day or more of their lives to fucking camp out in the freezing weather for some beer (somebody cue the beating the dead horse animation) IT'S JUST BEER!!! From what I was told b/c my amazing wife was standing in the taproom line starting about 10, she said all of the people in those Bears tents who had gotten there at 4 p.m. on Friday were all drinking Coors light...hmmm, that's a head scratcher. Oh wait, no it isn't. But seriously, for those who camped out b/c they do love KBS and were looking to drink/share/trade, I understand that would be frustrating to all of a sudden get your allotment slashed after freezing your rear ends off for most of the night. Summary = fucking great time, cheers!
    raymo55 likes this.
  6. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Savant (360) Michigan Mar 14, 2011

    Sensible? I did attend WMU....
  7. decadance

    decadance Savant (395) Texas Mar 14, 2010

    Then I may have to revoke my previous claim;)
    JohnB87 likes this.
  8. BeRanger

    BeRanger Advocate (520) Michigan Dec 11, 2011 Verified

    Has anyone heard from Kzoobrew?
  9. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Yes. He's still at the afterparty.
    BeRanger likes this.
  10. Gonzoillini

    Gonzoillini Advocate (715) Illinois Oct 15, 2008

    I can safely report that the Mayor of Michigan is alive and well, and hopefully recovered from Friday / Saturday.

    Nothing to really add at this point (YeahNateNelson summed up my thoughts much more eloquently than I could have), but I did enjoy meeting some great people (Decadence, Kzoobrew, the IL crew standing next to us in line (numbers 305-310 or so), drinking some great beers, and having some great food (huge thanks to SolarMikey for the amazing cupcakes, and the great guys who were about #350 with the griddle making French toast and sausages).

    Highlight of the day might have been stopping near the IN border with Imperialking to share a Captain Fantasy / Big John while watching the waves from Lake Michigan break over the beach.

    Not the perfect day, but I certainly don't regret going and enjoying everyone's company. Hopefully my requests to have the campers start condensing the line, and politely asking folks to keep an eye out for line cutters did some good.

  11. iceatalamo

    iceatalamo Aficionado (235) Michigan Dec 13, 2011 Verified

    Just a couple more comments:

    When did cutting the line become acceptable?

    Where are all the people from that are saying how freezing it was outside??? Shit, it felt like summer to me out there!
  12. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    You took charge of the line organization and it really helped. Everyone moved up at least a hundred feet which helped things move faster once bottles went on sale and helped prevent line cutting.
  13. atone315

    atone315 Champion (880) Wisconsin Oct 8, 2008 Verified

    Read over most of this thread, sounds like there was fun to be had before, and after, the opening of the release party. It also sounds like there was an equal amount of childish behavior, although people do tend to talk more about the negative....so, I guess it realistically was 2/3 good, 1/3 shit (and I am sure I know where a majority of those people came from, I live in WI).

    So, I guess there is only one thing I don't understand. A 12 pk of beer is the difference between someone loving & someone hating a brewery?
    adamdd and decadance like this.
  14. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Savant (360) Michigan Mar 14, 2011

    So what if Founder's said that next year, nobody in line will be allowed to drink in an effort to reduce the campers? (Since I believe it is technically against the law anyway, I may be wrong.)
    Some people are quick to say "eff Founders," but realize that this whole thing is quite a privilege.
  15. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Savant (265) North Carolina Oct 1, 2009 Verified

    That is what I am trying to understand. How is it that people are cutting in-line? What excuse are they using, or are they simply doing it assuming no one will stand-up to them? If so, that is just a situation waiting to come to an ugly end when you mix tired people, alcohol, and anger.
  16. RyanMM

    RyanMM Aficionado (245) Michigan Mar 12, 2009

    Founders has really blundered their last few releases, and I say that as someone who didn't waste time in the freezing cold waiting for their loaf of bread.

    If they cared about their real fans, they would hold off distribution and wait until they sold every last drop at the brewhouse before sending any to the other corners of the US.

    That's just smart business. They had 1000 people in line, that means they could have sold 1000 or MORE cases (I'm sure some people would have happily bought more than a case!)

    Instead, they kept 315 cases for themselves and sent thousands of cases outside of the state at a lower profit margin than the ones they could sell themselves.

    WTF are they smoking?
    nanobrew and Vav like this.
  17. paslaugh

    paslaugh Aficionado (170) Illinois Feb 17, 2012

    The problem is when one guy gets in line at 4am and then the rest of his crew shows up at 9:30am. That was were I saw the most line jumping. Even at the front of the line, I saw about 5 people in the Bears tarp fort, then the next morning there were suddenly a dozen. Leaves a bad taste in one's mouth.
  18. paslaugh

    paslaugh Aficionado (170) Illinois Feb 17, 2012

    For all of those that want to hate on the campers: Most of us towards the front of the line (first 50 or so) asked permission of Founders staff to set up tents and they had no issue with it. Nor did GR police when they stopped in around 11:30 or so. Take your Haterade and sour grapes someplace else.
  19. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Savant (360) Michigan Mar 14, 2011

    My grapes weren't sour until you just made them that way, but I guess I could see how you could take that post the wrong way. I was incenuating that the public drinking and intoxication was illegal, not the camping out. I just wanted to point out that of all the bitching and complaining, people don't realize that Founders has the ability the take the fun out of it at any point.
  20. paslaugh

    paslaugh Aficionado (170) Illinois Feb 17, 2012

    I agree man, especially about the people smoking the hippie lettuce and generally embarrassing themselves in line late into the night (especially that guy that vomited all over the urinal). It just seems like lots of people on here have been consistently hating on the campers when the message from Founders staff was that it was acceptable.
  21. JohnB87

    JohnB87 Savant (360) Michigan Mar 14, 2011

    On a lighter note, I took a duece in the port-a-potty and there will never be enough showers in the world to get me to forget about that splashback....
    jacob4999 likes this.
  22. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Savant (265) North Carolina Oct 1, 2009 Verified

    Based on that logic Founders should just inflate the price of KBS since the market can support it. They're NOT trying to make as much money as they can as soon as possible. They want to provide different opportunities for different people to enjoy their beer. Whether you agree with the allotment change or not, going to a bottle release doesn't make you a "real fan". I am sure some portion of that 1000 person line are more fans of eBay and trade bait than they are a "fan" of Founders.
    mike409 and Tony412 like this.
  23. Vav

    Vav Advocate (515) Wisconsin Jul 27, 2008

    So long as the machine keeps being fed, the machine will grind on.
  24. RyanMM

    RyanMM Aficionado (245) Michigan Mar 12, 2009

    That's real handy, assuming that. If it helps you sleep at night, so be it. I doubt that any significant portion of the people who drive hundreds of miles to be there on release day are eBaying it.

    As for Founders making money, this isn't an all-or-nothing proposition. Founders can supply the demand, at a price they're comfortable with, AND make more money in the process. That's called a win-win.
  25. tripledbrew

    tripledbrew Savant (385) Kentucky Dec 2, 2011

    My friends and I drove nine hours and were in line by 3:45AM that morning. The lowest number in my group was 331. Prior to the numbers be given out, we felt that it was highly possible that we may not get any KBS. We had heard that there was only 300-330 cases. I hate that this has created bad feelings among people, but I'm just happy that we didnt drive nine hours ,spend all that money, and end up empty handed.
    iceatalamo likes this.
  26. SHCC

    SHCC Savant (260) Massachusetts Feb 22, 2012

    Founders won't have a problem selling any of their KBS at whatever price they want, and just because people are lining up outside the brewery doesn't mean that those are the people a company wants to sell to.

    The issue that these beer companies run into, as I mentioned earlier, is keeping real fans happy. There are real fans in Michigan, but living in Michigan or being able to drive to the brewery doesn't make you a real fan. I know people that practically live next to a brewery and don't care at all about the brewery unless someone is giving them a way to get something (beer trade value, eBay) or someone is passing out a free beer. I also know people who live far away from a brewery and still spend a ton of money on a specific company's beers. Guess who is more valuable to Founders? It doesn't matter if you live in Grand Rapids and only get KBS/CBS/Better Half or live in Boston and only buy KBS/CBS/Better Half, it doesn't matter if you camp ten hours to spend less than $100 or know the local beer guy and spend $20, Founders suffers when people take away the inventory of their hard-to-get-beers from their top customers, especially if these releases are viewed as a large enough incentive. Someone is going to buy KBS. The difficulty is figuring out how to get those customers the beer.

    Eventually, beer companies are going to have to figure a way their best customers and give them first opportunity to get limited releases. Visit the brewery for three events and get a pass to the KBS release, maybe hide Golden Tickets in Dirty Bastard to get a ticket to the KBS release, maybe figure something else out. At the end of the day, give that guy who spends $1000+ on Founders a year first chance to get something rather than the person who spends $50-$100. That is good business.
    TATURBO and decadance like this.
  27. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    Just curious, but how much does an 18-hour round trip cost? The government's reimbursement rate is $0.51 per mile, which is supposed to cover gas and maintenance/depreciation. If 9 hours is like 400 miles (could easily be more) then that's over $400 for the trip. If there were four of you (you didn't say) and you got 12 bottles each, then that's over $8.00 onto each bottle...

    I know you go for the experience, to some extent, but for this release it just seems extreme to me...
  28. Guy from Illinois puking out of side of car for 2+ hours at 8am. That is all.
  29. adamant1912

    adamant1912 Savant (425) Michigan Jan 10, 2010

    My wonderful girlfriend and some of my friends got to Founder's at 6am. She got ticket #625 (which was pretty much the last) and I couldn't be happier that they decided to allow only a half case. While this went against the original plan, I think the fact that an extra 300+ people ended up with some KBS was great. For those that showed up and camped out 12 or so hours for some beer..this shows dedication, but not everyone can do that. Sharing is caring, and like Founder's says, "Brewed by us, enjoyed by EVERYONE."
  30. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Savant (265) North Carolina Oct 1, 2009 Verified

    Why so defensive? To quote exactly, I said, "SOME portion" but you're responding like I made an irrational assumption or generalization about everyone there. I'm only responding to your implication that selling as much as possible at the brewhouse equates to getting the beer into the hands of "real fans".

    We just have to agree to disagree with what makes more business sense. In my book, whatever revenue Founders can make by selling a majority if not all at the taproom is eclipsed by value they gain by distributing the beer and growing the brand.
  31. atone315

    atone315 Champion (880) Wisconsin Oct 8, 2008 Verified

    For what it's worth....I counted roughly 70 bottles of KBS for sale/ completed sales on ebay, as of this morning. I believe this is 1% of total allotment available @ at the brewery?
  32. MarcatGSB

    MarcatGSB Initiate (0) Michigan Jan 8, 2011

    This thread makes my Peruvian Morning's taste that much better! Cheers! Thanks Allen.
  33. jrags8

    jrags8 Disciple (70) Michigan Jun 9, 2010

    I think there is a bit of a flaw in the brewery only sales logic. Yes, Founders can probably squeeze out every penny by selling at the taproom only, but I have to believe that the inclusion of KBS, seasonals (IS, BS, Harvest Ale, etc.), and the Backstage series is probably getting them into or at least favor with a lot of distributors and accounts. I work for a large food and beverage company. We run many products that make little or no profit and don't discontinue them because many are tied to distribution of the profitable materials.

    I believe the reason they don't sell all the limited beers at the brewery is the same as the reason that it costs the same at the brewery as it does at the store down the street; they don't want to undercut or destroy relationships with their distributors that put their product on the shelves for them every other day of the year.

    (Full disclosure - living near the brewery, I would easily benefit if they went taproom only or only distributed to MI as has been discussed.)
    tlh1005 likes this.
  34. tlh1005

    tlh1005 Savant (265) North Carolina Oct 1, 2009 Verified

    That is definitely the only way we can measure this sort of thing, but I imagine that number will increase significantly seeing as how it's only been three days, plus the bottom feeders know that flooding the market will net them less. This same phenomenon happens in the print buying community. Also there isn't a great way to quantify those who are overwhelmingly purchasing for trade bait.
  35. atone315

    atone315 Champion (880) Wisconsin Oct 8, 2008 Verified

    I was thinking EXACTLY the same....and you can buy (2) 4 pks for $20!!!
    mike409 likes this.
  36. steebo777

    steebo777 Advocate (580) Michigan Jun 30, 2009 Verified

    I take it you didn't go to the Better Half release? Quite possibly the best and easiest release I have ever been to.

    And it still isn't as good as KBS, you get what you pay for. ;)
    mike409 likes this.
  37. FlssmrBrewAlum

    FlssmrBrewAlum Savant (305) Illinois Feb 25, 2009 Verified

    I'm pretty sure beer releases (Everywhere) need to start going this way soon.

    Eliminate camping out, eliminate drinking in line, eliminate the party atmosphere that apparently now starts on the property the night before.. I bet you see a lot of these issues fixed (Except of course, line cutting.. that's a harder sell).
  38. jacob4999

    jacob4999 Savant (355) Michigan Dec 9, 2008 Verified

    Good lord that sucks bro! Lol No way I would have sat on those portajon seats! you should have went to the bus station..
  39. weatherdog

    weatherdog Savant (470) Illinois Nov 7, 2007

    So what you mean is take all the fun out of the releases. You sound like a guy I'd love to have a drink with.
  40. NSaad23

    NSaad23 Aficionado (220) Michigan Dec 13, 2011

    That's a tough call man, Port-a-jon where you know that like minded individuals have been using it for a short period of time or Bus Station public toilet, where Lord only knows what type of people have been using it....