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Melanoidin malt in Czech Pils?

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by MLucky, Feb 28, 2012.

  1. MLucky

    MLucky Savant (400) California Jul 31, 2010

    Anybody do this? I wouldn't mind figuring out a way to avoid doing a decoction, and I know some people claim adding melanoidin can do that, but so far I haven't encountered much info on exactly how people do this: ie, how much melanoidin and do you need to adjust your mash temp for a single infusion using this method?

    My usual grist for czech pils is 12.5 lb pils, .75 carapils, single infusion 152. I've done decoctions and it *was* a little better, but if there's a way to get that little extra bit of graininess without spending an extra couple hours mashing, I'm all ears.
  2. MLucky

    MLucky Savant (400) California Jul 31, 2010

    Thanks. I dunno if I'd be inclined to go quite as high in a pils as they did with the melanoidin in the doppelbock (4%), but it's certainly interesting to note that almost as many tasters picked the melanoidin as the triple decoction as picked the real thing. Hmmm.
  3. ryane

    ryane Savant (390) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    you could always compromise and do a small decoction for mashout, boil 1/2 your grist for 15-20min to get some of the maillard reactions, AND add a small bit of melanoidin malt

    whatever you do becareful with the amt of melanoidin, its a fairly powerful malt, and too much can ruin a beer
  4. I tasted those beers at the 2009 NHC. There was no doubt in my mind that the tripple decocted beer was the one, and the best of the lot. It remeinded me of Andechs Doppelbock Dunkel.

    Michael Fergason said that all he had to do was to look at the clarity of the beer. The tripple decocted beer was brilliant, the others - not so much.
  5. For the OP - which Pils malt are you using? Weyermann Bohemian pils is good, Weyermann Floor Malted Bohemian Pils is better. I still do a decoction, but only Hochkurz due to being lazy. A 9 to 11 hour day is enough!
  6. BigAB

    BigAB Aficionado (150) Iowa Aug 4, 2008

    3-5% of your grist should fit the bill (at least, it's that range for a good number of Helles recipes out there). Otherwise, just keep on decocting - it's a labor of love.
  7. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    Labor of love, yes. But, with a 2 year old (my situation) getting the time to brew is hard enough sometimes adding a couple hours for decoction mashing is almost impossible.
  8. ryane

    ryane Savant (390) Washington Nov 21, 2007

    I still havent gotten my hands on the floor malted stuff, how noticeable is the difference?
  9. The one that is finishing lagering has a little more depth in the malty flavors that I taste in PU. Next time I will boil longer to develope more color. A local brewery made a very good Bo-Pils using Best Pils malt, and I would consider that one as a sub if I can't get the Floor Malted.
  10. MLucky

    MLucky Savant (400) California Jul 31, 2010

    Thanks. I'm thinking I might just have to bite the bullet, make some excuses to family, and just do the decoction. I was hoping we'd have somebody say, "sure, just use 2 percent melanoidin and you'll get results indistinguishable from decoction," but I'm not hearing that.

    Ryane, I've got regular Weyermann's pils malt, not the Bohemian. I bought a sack of it because I usually do German pils and a number of other German lagers. I'm doing czech pils this time partly because I've got some whole saaz on hand and partly just for a change of pace. I could probably get some of the Bohemian at LHBS if it's going to make a huge difference.
  11. BigAB

    BigAB Aficionado (150) Iowa Aug 4, 2008

    I say use 3-4% melanoidin and go for it (and I'm probably a bit biased towards decocting). I can't say that it would be exactly the same as your past attempts, but it will make a good beer. There's no better way to find out than by trying it yourself :D
  12. My opinion, and it's only opinion because I've never decocted and never brewed what I'd calll a Bohemian Pilsener:

    Firstly, whether you get a better beer from maltier malt or from decoction is splitting some very fine hairs indeed. I think you have to be very confident in your abilities to make a very good lager before you worry about melanoidin versus decocting.

    Secondly, if I were to brew a Bo Pils, I think I would single infusion mash and go for a mix of Melanoidin and Munich malts to achieve a malty profile. Like others, I don't have the time to decoct. I barely even have the time to brew.

    Thirdly, I'll bet that if I made a Bo Pils with Munich and Melanoidin that satisfied my criteria for crossing every i and dotting every t in the brewing process, nobody would turn it down for inferior malt character.

    And lastly, yes one day I'd like to decoct some beer just for shits and giggles.
  13. If I were you, I'd skip the carapils...do about 4% melanoidin (at the high end), maybe lower the mash temp and boil for at least 90 minutes...or you could do a long (30+ min) single decoction with all pils.
  14. Recently I did a bohemian pils with a triple decoction, 90 boil all saaz. I also did a single infusion 96% Pils, 4% Melanoidin CGP with a 90 minute boil and hallertauer. Malt character on the bo pils was a bit richer, but too be honest...you'd really have to pick it apart harshly back to back to notice the difference (malt wise)....