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Needed: List of Fake Craft Brews

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by GaryGreen, Jan 3, 2013.

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  1. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    "buy American" HAH! There is no such thing anymore. Check a Ford monroney sticker.

    Local merchants generally have prices 1.5x higher. No thanks. Hmm - BR Racer X for $10.99 at dirtbag local bottleshop or $6.99 at BevMo. National chain it is - giving me value.

    BevMo also employs 20 people at my local store, the bottleshop employs 2 and the owner rolls a BMW 750. Seems "local merchants" aren't exactly different from corporations.
  2. juankzas

    juankzas Aficionado (240) Mexico Jun 13, 2008

    Only read the first post, shame on me!!
  3. leedorham likes this.
  4. I'm still unsure what these so called corrupt business practices are that ABI undertake to push everyone else out of the market. We have seen an explosion of craft options in the area I live over the past 4 years, with the ABI distributor I work for bringing many of said brands to the area. Taking taps from competition and securing display and shelf space isn't evil, it's competition. I go into accounts just like the MC guy as well as every other beer salesman and brewery rep with the intent to get more distribution and sales for my brands, just like everyone else. I don't even bring a weapon, I usually just offer suggestions.

    Say I walk into a bar with bud, bud light, miller lite, coors lite, and a couple of non trash options. First thing I recommend is diversifying the options by keeping one or two American lagers and swapping the rest out for higher margin craft or import beers. Usually with a bit of explanation we can make some headway, maybe get some local craft on line or a larger brand, a la Sierra Nevada.

    Beer salesmen aren't monsters or anything, generally just regular guys that got stuck working here because it pays well and it's reasonably interesting from time to time.
    Sludgeman likes this.
  5. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poobah (1,045) New Jersey Feb 23, 2012 Subscriber Beer Trader

    No one here said corporations, (regardless of the corporate structure) are evil.
    I am sure that every brewery out there is some form of coroporation.

    It is a business practice not size or legal status.
  6. Bourbon County and Variants, Matilda, Juliet, Madam Rose, Night Stalker, Big John, Fluer, ect ect
  7. My time and money are far more important.
    domtronzero likes this.
  8. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Wait what? You mean you try and displace other brands with your own??Q@! How evil and morally bankrupt!!!
  9. Price certainly does come into play here. I am fortunate enough to look at options when buying items. For example, a family not doing well may have no choise but to buy a $1 Big Mac because of the price, while I have the luxury to find the locally sourced beef, bread and cheese to cook my own burger. That's most definitely an issue worth acknowledging. But all beer is a luxury item, and anyone that buys it has disposable income to do so. As such, I believe more thorough attention can be paid.
    kemoarps and SammyJaxxxx like this.
  10. bum732

    bum732 Advocate (660) Lesotho Feb 18, 2008

    Except he didn't. He used hyperbole instead. Let me give you an example of what i mean. "Because you're using an apple product, you're worse than Hitler." See what I'm getting at?
    HipsterBrewfus likes this.
  11. HopHead84

    HopHead84 Poobah (1,040) California Nov 29, 2006 Beer Trader

    The OP was pretty clear

  12. jesskidden

    jesskidden Champion (810) New Jersey Aug 10, 2005 Subscriber

    Those three breweries are all about the same size - 125-150,000 bbl. a year. AB had a relationship with GI and they owned part of it already through their 1/3 ownership of CBA and CBA owned 40% of GI. Additionally, AB distributed GI through their agreement with CBA. By buying GI, they also infused the oft-troubled CBA with cash for their 40% of GI.

    Another factor - GI's John Hall was apparently ready and willing to sell, Stone and DFH apparently aren't.
  13. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poobah (1,045) New Jersey Feb 23, 2012 Subscriber Beer Trader

    BevMo employs 20 people at wages that someone cannot live on.

    The local bottle shop allows a family to live comfortably in the neighborhood.
    The local bottle shop conributes to the community.
    The local bottle shop probably pays its employees significantly more than BevMo.

    BevMo takes money from your neighborhood and sends it somwhere else.

    While your local place might be more expensive, I find it hard to believe that the prices are that much higher across the board.
  14. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    I don't believe in the BS "living wage" argument. BevMo stockboy isn't a head of household position that should pay the guy enough to buy a house, a couple of cars, and retirement savings. It's an entry level position that he/she can work while attending college with roommates. If they can't live on the wages....how are they alive? /philosoraptor

    "The local bottle shop allows a family to live comfortably in the neighborhood."

    The owner doesn't live in the neighborhood.

    The local bottle shop conributes to the community.

    So does BevMo. It provides 20x the payroll to local employees living near it. What BevMo doesn't attract are low rent crackheads which the local shop does attract.

    The local bottle shop probably pays its employees significantly more than BevMo.

    Actually - you are wrong. It is just the owner and a lackey who looks like he makes $8/hr.

    BevMo takes money from your neighborhood and sends it somwhere else.

    So does the local bottleshop. BevMo at leasts returns part of those profits to the store employees who live nearby and spend at all the other nearby businesses. Local guy? Nope.
  15. Yes, and there are state laws to what's competition and what's illegal. The only people I see consistently ignoring them are the big guys, and as a consumer, having that info means I don't support them.
  16. Once again....ACROSS THEIR LINEUP
  17. Last time I checked "craft breweries " are not charitable enterprises. Therefore they are seeking your hard earned money in exchange for their wares. Why is it verboten to criticize the methods they take to obtain your money for said wares? You're fooling yourself if u think these small craft breweries aren't engaged in some sort of marketing...u kinda have to in order for your biz to survive.

    That said...isn't the ultimate FAIL of a business is to provide what the market desires? So why do breweries constantly get a pass from beer geeks in this most basic business tenet? & many of the ones who complain the loudest about this are the ones who complain about "marketing"...which is ironic because I can't remember the last time a Bud Lt drinker bitched about not being able to get his beer from the local store.
    evilc likes this.
  18. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poobah (1,045) New Jersey Feb 23, 2012 Subscriber Beer Trader

    I explained it and then added a little hyperbole for illustrative purposes. I think my hyperbole was quite effective but that is just my opinion.

    "The position "Drink what tastes great-Period." is morally bankrupt.
    Not because they disagree with me, but because they are not acknowledging that there is a moral component ot every purchase.
    If the Taliban releases a BBA Stout that is phenomonal are you going to purchase it?"
  19. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    HipsterBrewfus likes this.
  20. jhartley

    jhartley Poobah (1,330) Florida Aug 22, 2010 Beer Trader

    Yeah it can make yer head spin, and believe me getting some of this information is next to impossible. I've been working in the flexible packaging industry for the last 20+ years and it's hard as hell to get information out of our vendors as to where they get their products to mfg. then ship to us.
    To me, what it all comes down to is the almighty dollar and it's about making more than the next guy, who is your competition, however without the other guy you may be out of business.
    Shit, now my head hurts.
    Kuemmelbrau likes this.
  21. BMitch

    BMitch Savant (285) Virginia Jul 10, 2012 Beer Trader

    Do you anti-InBev, morally-rich folks also make your own clothes and sneakers? Because if you don't, I can guarantee at least one article of clothing you are currently wearing was made by people working in terrible conditions at wages that someone cannot live on.

    Enough with these ridiculous double standards already. By all means do what you want, but don't thumb your nose at others like you're some kind of saint for not buying any AB-InBev products.
  22. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Such Holier than Thou attitudes. Good grief!

    I'd love to have these guys over at a tasting.

    "Would you like a pour of this BCBS Cherry Rye?"


    PS: ISO Taliban BA Stout.
  23. SammyJaxxxx

    SammyJaxxxx Poobah (1,045) New Jersey Feb 23, 2012 Subscriber Beer Trader

    Well if the shop doesn't support the community, you shouldn't support it.
    SunDevilBeer likes this.
  24. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    What's he supposed to do to be worthy of your business?
  25. interesting. around here, in san diego county, the store that immediately pops to mind re: illegally reselling beers is a "mom and pop" operation (beverages 4 less). i would pretty much only expect that from small fry shops and not the big chains. i have no clear understanding why anyone thinks only the big boys do illegal things.
  26. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    $15.99 for 1 bottle of BCBS isn't a good price? Did the evil corporate chain Binny's sell it for $64 a 4 pack? No? Only the glorious mom and pop?
  27. I work for a brewery and know what my company does. My clients (bars and restaurants) chat freely about who got what freebie from who.
  28. that really doesn't address my point: small companies do illegal / unethical things, too.

    i'm actually on board with the concept of voting with your dollar and supporting practices you believe in. but i'm also aware that there's way too much lionizing of "small business = hero, big business = evil" going on.
  29. Not picky enough to avoid a beer just because the brewer is owned by a guy how owns a guy who owes a guy. I say let each beer stand on its own merits, mega owner or not.
    jhartley and HipsterBrewfus like this.
  30. leedorham

    leedorham Champion (855) Washington Apr 27, 2006

    If the beer is really all you care about, then you still have to look big picture. If the collective craft beer community chooses to say "sure I'll let ABInbev make all my beer as long as it's good" then they are, as a community, discouraging diversity in the world of beer, and nearly everything special about craft beer culture comes from diversity.
    SammyJaxxxx likes this.
  31. YogiBeer

    YogiBeer Savant (485) Illinois May 10, 2012

    ISO Chibuku Opaque Beer
  32. mynie

    mynie Champion (800) Massachusetts Jun 22, 2004 Beer Trader

    Hitler and Sons
    Four Floyds
    American Gladiator Brewing Featuring Nitro (not sure about the one with Blaze)
    Horbar, Andygirl and MarkIntihar like this.
  33. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Not all of us believe the sky is falling and that the evil empire is snuffing out all the craft breweries.
  34. Iso goose island while i enjoy my leffe and blue moon. I hear quality brew is only good if you have to search all over it and drop big cash in it. Rare beer always taste better.
  35. Although this may sound like a rational line of reasoning, it's not necessarily true.

    First, the government is very happy to take away my money, prevent me from working, an taking away my companies money as well. All of those things make it wise to not do illegal things things in the market. You think the distributor I work for would like to hit down for 3 days because an employee went rogue and did something illegal? We sell over 100,000 cases of beer some days, whatever draft line or display you secured by giving something away isn't worth it.

    Secondly, and just from a business standpoint, it's not a good idea to routinely bribe people for their business. Creates a welfare system where people constantly want free pos, event tickets, trade spending, etc to do anything for you. Dare I say their are bars and retailers that put beer salesmen against one another in search of a freebie. Not good business for us to get involved in charity...
  36. leedorham

    leedorham Champion (855) Washington Apr 27, 2006

    Nothing about falling skies in my post and I haven't once used the word "evil" in any of my responses. These are my points:

    1. Supporting many smaller breweries rather than one or two large ones (large craft included) encourages diversity in the industry. Diversity is good.
    2. Having many smaller breweries rather than a few large ones employs more people gallon for gallon brewed. This is better for everybody except those who seek extreme wealth. (I have nothing against wanting to be rich, but at some point amassing wealth at the expense of others becomes corrosive to society)
    3. Whether it is immediately apparent or not, your day to day beer purchasing decisions affect the direction our beer culture is headed in.

    That's all. If you can actually dispute any of those points rather than spouting a.m. radio nonsense, then go for it.
  37. Norica

    Norica Savant (380) Massachusetts Feb 2, 2006

    Or by not drinking a Diageo owned Guiness while in Ireland...or does Diageo satisfy your moral compass?
  38. I wanna high five the shit out of you!
  39. I do see what you're getting at.
  40. Show me where I thumb my nose at anyone that drinks inbev.
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