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Not cool, Local Taphouse, not cool

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by mulder1010, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    http://www.thelocal.com.au/MEL/------- Melbourne current taplist
    http://www.thelocal.com.au/SYD/-----Sydney current taplist
    http://wheatsheafhotel.com.au/pdf/bottle_pdf/brewery/1/WH_Beer_Brewery_Template_V34.pdf-------Wheatsheaf bottle list
    http://wheatsheafhotel.com.au/drinks/tap_beer----------Wheatsheaf tap list
    The Albion Hotel website---
    http://www.thealbion.com.au/

    http://thelocaltaphouse.blogspot.com.au/2012/03/almighty-moa-tap-takeover-alestars.html---Growler options for Sydney
    http://thelocalbottlestoresk.blogspot.com.au/------ Growler options for Melbourne

    Is Mikkel paying a visit to Sydney???? Nah, goes to Melbourne and we in Sydney get ditched.

    Just really frustrating when everybody else, Perth, Melbourne, Adelaide and Newcastle get more attractive tap lists than in Sydney.

    Just really tired of not having those kind of options here in Sydney. Really appreciate the love being shown to Sydney as a consumer. Much appreciated.

    End vent
     
  2. Lukie

    Lukie Savant (425) Australia Jun 16, 2007

    Updated Tap List:
    Nogne O Bitter
    Weihenstephaner Dunkel
    Green Flash Hop Head Red
    Bear Republic Racer 5
    Mikkeller Kaffestout

    ;)
     
  3. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    The problem is that they put too many NSW beers on in Sydney, and NSW beers are frankly not very good on the whole. Sick of seeing Illawarra and Doctor's Orders on menus, I never order them because I know I'm not going to like them.

    I also haven't seen any beers which are actually interesting being offered in growlers in Sydney. Did they do a growler of the Nogne O Imperial Stout, Murrays Retro Rocket or the Scherlenka rauchbier they have on at the moment? If not why not? No harm in offering something actually interesting in growlers alongside the usual boring pale ales which you can already buy for cheaper in bottle shops.
     
  4. Like a shark at Nantuket, I'll bite at this thread.

    First, Mulder, have your beef with Taphouse, Taphouse have your beef with Mulder. This reply is nothing to do with either of you guys. My target is the beer expert Danieelol.

    Sadly I was mistaken in thinking that the toppling of the previous forum would wash away the sins of posts past. Posts where expertise in beer and beer evaluation was gained by a mere presentation of a credit card at an online store or a bricks and mortar retailer, all mixed with daft taps on a computer keypad where you can profess all, but know very little. (seems even buying a dodgey Uni degree online was a far stretch) A place where sad, tired and emotional international beers who have had more stops and frisk searches than a Columbian drug runner are always veiwed superior than a fresh well made beer from a local supplier.

    I think these simple few words say it all;

    "The problem is that they put too many NSW beers on in Sydney" . I do not know where to go with this one, drinking fresh local beer in Sydney made maybe an hour or 2's drive away. Wait, I know, lets import beer from a European country which takes 3 months to get here, is probably not chilled, and handled worse than a steer at a rodeo ... or we can have something that arrives at the pub at about 3 weeks old, fresh and well positioned. I know, in Portland there will be too many Oregon beers on. Same for to many Bamberg beers in Bamberg, too many beers from Melbourne in Victoria.

    Or maybe, as I am an expert judge of beer quality because of that credit card, what I am really saying is I like the flavour of stale, oxidised beer. Come on, say it loud and proud brother and sing it. Unfortunately, there are stats about people like you, the big brewers have run survey groups for years. Everytime they start making an international lager under contract they know they have to transition over a time period consumers taste expectations from stale green bottle flavour to the freshly made one. Your a sad statistic that behind his keyboard is a big man of knowledge and expertise, but in reality is an ignorant duffer and a waste of malt and hops.

    So, trained beer judges what do they know? Umm, Illawarra Brewing will you please melt your gold medals at the recent Royal Easter Show. Piss easy that competitions is. Umm, Stone and Wood, 4 Pines and Murrays I am sure won how many critics choice and hottest 100's and came in the top 10? apart from awards at the AIBA. The Wig and Pen (technically NSW), Potters and Wicked Elf all consistently win awards for their beer (AIBA anyone?) ... Lord Nelson and Red Oak win international medals (World Beer Cup, London Beer Show?) ... Australian Brewery awards at Adelaide ....

    Nah nah, all NSW beer is bad, even though I have not tried them as my expertise (credit card, keyboard) leads me to say, NSW beers are just plain bad, because as I quote 'I never order them because I know I'm not going to like them' .

    NSW beer not good on the whole, or those that think they can judge them? Hmm Hmm, discuss ..
     
    danieelol likes this.
  5. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    I enjoy NSW beer when it's $5 a pint, when it's $11 less so

    Why oh why did I drink an oxidised and poorly handled Cantillon Kriek tonight when I could have gone for a local inexpensive sour such as Redoak Pale Ale?
     
  6. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    my vent is at the taphouse here. As a consumer and fan of RIS I am totally disappointed in the selection the Local has here. I can drive to Murray's and drink what is available at the local. Either at Port Stephens or at Manly. All I am asking is give me a reason to come to their location and drink a beer.
    Give me a growler I want to purchase, or a smaller one I want to purchase. Thanks for cider options. I can go to Red Oak for that.
     
  7. dgilks

    dgilks Advocate (685) Australia Jul 14, 2008

    I had a rant all written and lost it. Basically, the NSW beer scene is miles behind that in Victoria in both quality, adventurousness and availability. A NSW focus by any beer bar in NSW (not just The Local) will compromise the quality of the selection. The Local used to be quite good with at least a couple of worthwhile options available but no longer do I see a number of craft imports and high quality local releases on the Darlo taps (and when they do they run out fast).

    The other problem appears to be the local market being not quite as developed as the Melbourne market in terms of the sophistication of the beer choices (and the tendency to drink cider) and this lack of demand naturally affects the supply (though maybe Darlo isn't the right location).
     
  8. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    This also raises the question of why, seeing as they sell out so fast, they don't just put more high quality beers on tap in the first place
     
  9. I understand that this is a rant, but I don't get it - surely now is the best time there has ever been to be a Sydeny beer drinker. I'm drinking a squealer of Hop Head Red from the St K Taphouse now, and I went to the US minifest a couple of days ago... but I don't see how the Darlinghurst menu is bad at all. I'd be happy to see any of those beers available here. I was happy to see the Doc Orders in Melbourne last week. It's odd and pretty good - and how do you think people like Mikkel will be attracted to Sydney if not to visit innovative local brewers who are being given a decent shake by local customers ?

    And the two Illawarra brews? 2 of only 5 gold medals at the recent Sydney show - they sound worth a try. Criticizing the Taphouse for pouring Icon IPA when it is available elsewhere? - but it's one of Australia's best beers! OK, you want the new and the MOAR!, and _you_ might be prepared to pop on the ferry for an hour's round trip, but surely Icon is a pretty worthy offering.

    There are beers I'd love to try that aren't available here (and many of them are 5% and under). Not all the local brews match it with the best I've had. But there's good stuff to be had and things seem to be getting better everywhere. Why not enjoy what's around and look forward to what will come?
     
  10. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

    I'm not sure if this entirely helps Mulder, but I'm from Perth and the place where I work has this on tap (not a full list) at the moment, Nail Ale, Nail Stout, Mikk. Jackie Brown, 1000IBU Light and Thoerst, Nail Light (Ale's little brother), Last Drop Pils and Heffe, Feral White and Hop Hog, Invercargill Boysenbeery and Stanley Green, Mountain Goat Hightail (we rotate that with Steam and IPA), Mash Brown Ale and Brass Monkey Stout and some Matilda Bay stuff.

    We've also just ran out of the Hoppy Heffe and a few Renaissance beers and soon will have on tap, Mikk. Texas Ranger, Big Worse, From to Via, Ris ala Male, Fressler, BooGoop and 1000IBU, Rogue Chatoe Single Malt, Ando Valley Boont and Hop Ottin, Green Flash Hop Head, Imp IPA and WC IPA, Bear Rep Racer 5, Red Rocket, Peter Brown, Hop Rod and Big Bear Stout, Schenkerla Marzen, Stillwater Stateside and Cellardoor, Lindemans Geuze, Apple, Framboise, Nogne-o Nighthawk and some 8 Wired Tall Poppy and Heywired.

    Anyway, long story short, with our list we try and keep a 'core' of local (Nail, Feral, Mash etc) craft on tap and then rotate our taps based on whim, fancy and a lot of the time availability. Sadly we cant always get what we (and you) want. Not to speak for TLTH, I'm sure its one of their problems too, that after a while our list can seem boring because you have been spoilt by good beers for so long you need to be constantly challenged and when you come in and see that its the same old thing again you seem disappointed.

    It's very difficult in what we do to cater for the 'fanboys' of craft beer who constantly want you to bring in more and more 'wacky' and exotic beers, cater for John Public that walks off the street and also to try and support and help the local scene at the same time.

    Im fairly certain that TLTH doesnt restrict the beers you want to get for sh#ts and giggles. I'm sure its down to a combination of supply and demand. Most likely supply.

    Or you could be like the boy that watches (drinks) too much porn (craft beer) and now needs more and more extreme filth (IPA's) to get off (thirst slaked).... :)

    Just a few rambling thoughts....
     
  11. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    "how do you think people like Mikkel will be attracted to Sydney if not to visit innovative local brewers who are being given a decent shake by local customers ?"

    with your penchant for biased and loaded statements you should go into federal politics

    "I'm not sure if this entirely helps Mulder, but I'm from Perth and the place where I work has this on tap (not a full list) at the moment..."

    Well it certainly helps him and other Sydney-siders feel jealous of your city. It is reassuring to know that the Taphouse can get beers like this but instead puts on James Squire and Doctor's Orders v 3.8. Yay!!! We do have a bocce court though. ujelly?
     
  12. Lukie

    Lukie Savant (425) Australia Jun 16, 2007

    Who is this Mordecai fellow? I'm Lukie from IBS. Dunno if we have met.

    Obviously you work at the Sail & Anchor. For the love of all that is holy, if I see Dry Dock through a randall of chillis again, I will smash it!

    I am not joking! I WILL SMASH IT!

    EDIT:

    Since this has become the "What is on tap thread", this is what we tapped through launch day -> week for growlers/squealers. I may have missed something...

    Mikkeler Frelser, Weihenstephaner Hefe, Weihenstephaner Dunkel, Stateside Saison, Nogne-O Imperial Brown Ale, Mikkeller Single Hops (Simcoe, Centennial, Amarillo), Blanche de Namur, Hardcore IPA, Nogne-O Bitter, Bear Republic Single Hop Sonnet, Green Flash West Coast IPA.

    There is no reason a good beer pub should not be able to beat that list. We are a shop!
     
  13. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Here lays the issue------ You have been able to get stuff from East End, Marshall Wharf, Green Flash, and Bear Republic. You honestly think people will drive out of their way to get a growler of Dr's Orders? I work near Beer Cartel in Artarmon and also have Black Lung on Growlers. No Reason to go to the Taphouse for a growler in that instance.
    Some places in Australia are getting boogoop on growlers.
    I do not have to catch a ferry to Manly. What an awful idea that is. Go to Murray's on a Monday and no issues with parking, have some dinner, better views, and 2 ICON's and all set.
    I admit I am very different. I do not want a 5% beer or have the desire to go get one.
     
  14. Lukie

    Lukie Savant (425) Australia Jun 16, 2007

    BOOGOOP ON GROWLERS :D
     
    danieelol and mulder1010 like this.
  15. another take on this. I hope (and I mean sincerely hope) that this is not a case of supply and demand. In this case that the Darlo Taphouse has found that the demand is for more mainstream beers. That's what I read into more mainstream bottle list, and also reduced opening hours.

    If that's the case, then we aren't quite as far advanced in 2012 as I hoped we were in Sydney. Sadly, we can't expect any business to run at a loss to please a few.

    And let's face it, we are a few, the BA community grows at large, the Aus forum members as I see it, haven't....

    2c
     
  16. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    I still think it's because of exposure. Give people a good American Amber like 5AM Saint or Red Rocket and they're gonna get hooked on craft. Give them Doctor's Orders and they'll go back to Shiraz and cider.

    The only reason I got hooked on craft was living near a bottle shop which had a decent selection, and having an enquiring mind.

    The thing about good craft is most people actually like it when they try it. Ergo the Taphouse just needs to serve good craft.

    Had this out of the bottle tonight. Triple IPA anyone?
     
  17. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Not fair on Dr's Orders. He does decent stuff. He does creative stuff. Is it what I want to go spend money on? Not really. Does he have a following? Yes he does, otherwise his stuff would not make it to Melbourne and Adelaide.

    Maybe The Local is nothing more than an a "blue moon" occasion place. I would rather go to Harts and have a better atmosphere and better location and some good options. I guess I just expect more from the taphouse as they say they are the best beer pub in Sydney. I am willing to drive out to Rouse Hill for the Australian, or to Manly for 4 Pines and Murray's but it is a tough sell to want to go to the taphouse for the same options.

    Must ask Scotty to have the tap list on his website next
     
  18. if I were to stand on a soapbox, I would ask these guys to update their b&**y website to current.

    Was in last night, on the way see New Order, so I didn't actually go out of my way to visit. A couple of items were not present on Tap. The eagerly awaited Lindemans Gueze had morphed into Kreik. Gueze is still on the website as at now. In addition, the A4 beer menus did not match the list on the board behind the bar.

    Given that I have taken the time to write to Steve J in the past to commend him on service - a few things seem to be letting them down at present.

    A point to note - also if you don't reserve a table to eat these days it seems you don't get one. All full at six.
     
  19. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    "The eagerly awaited Lindemans Gueze had morphed into Kreik."

    I dunno if you meant this but I doubt that was the Cuvee Renee (which would have been awesome if they had it on tap, hell any real sour; only one I've ever seen there is Funky Junky)
     
  20. hmmm - their website just states 'Lindeman's Gueze', which I have actually had once before down there - $14 for a small. And indeed it was good......

    Last night - it was Kriek on tap - same sort of price. Just not pour moi, thanks.....
     
  21. spicelab

    spicelab Savant (435) Australia Nov 6, 2009

  22. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

     
  23. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

    As you can see I'm new to this posting thing. Or Lukie is a master ventroliquist. I'm sure you can work who said what though.

    Sorry for putting words into your mouth/post Lukie. I'm just incompotent at this.
     
  24. Lukie

    Lukie Savant (425) Australia Jun 16, 2007

    Not a problem. I'm heading down to the Chilli festival on Sunday, so will certainly stop in for a pint of two, hopefully of some 8 Wired!
     
  25. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

    We still have a few of the 8 Wired kegs left. About 3 Tall Poppy and 2 Hey Wired.

    You should just make it.

    My other randall idea, in an extreme case of overkill, is to run through the Schenkerla Marzen and dried bacon for International Bacon Appreciation Day...too far?

    Also, I am jealous of your bocce court Danieelol. I wish to spend my days smoking cigarettes, wearing stripped shirts, complaining about the youth of today, holding ages old petty vendettas and playing bocce (and any other stereotype you care to mention). I can only do 4 of those here. :(
     
  26. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    does the taphouse think of updating their site for Sydney?? NO.
    Why would they when they send beer hop breakfast and pranqster to Melbourne?
    Is Sydney getting a Zwanze day?? oh no when Melbourne supports them more over dull beer.
    Want to thank all the taphouse staff and leadership for screwing over Sydney and giving us all the Lion Nathan beer. Much appreciated.
    Until you get a clue and support Sydney I will call you out for your BS efforts and totally boycott you until you show Sydney some love. I have a better cellar list than Darlo has. Totally pathetic.
    Murrays, 4 pines and harts have better tap lists than yours. Do you even try to make any of us in Sydney happy?
    You do have bocce ball and silent cinema. How about a keg or two from North Coast instead? Or is that too much?
    Do not reply or BM me, Steve as you have shown no guts to admit Melbourne is more important to you and your precious review.
    Have given up on you and would rather drive to Newcastle and a place that does not have a contract with Lion nathan.

    Can not wait for Squire Tap Takeover night in Sydney. Beats the hell out of bocce ball
     
  27. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    http://www.thelocal.com.au/MEL/
    Melbourne tap list........Not bad
    http://www.thelocal.com.au/SYD/
    Silent cinema seems better, or avoiding as Steve is having a Daquari
    http://wheatsheafhotel.com.au/drinks/tap_beer
    Still better than Sydney as Steve is having several daquari's and the Sydney taplist is not updated. We have bocce ball and silent cinema though

    http://www.thealbion.com.au/
    Thanks for the love Steve. Much appreciated. Maybe I can drive one hour up the 1 for real beer. Got a cider I can enjoy??
     
  28. sinkas

    sinkas Aficionado (190) Australia Jul 9, 2008

    Looks like rage-aholics is on term break again
     
  29. I wish there was a place as cool as the Sydney taphouse in Brisbane...don't get me wrong I like the Archive and I could spend all my drinking sessions there if I had to...but still they don't really have anything extreme and 'out there' as the tap house does :(
     
  30. ALEBOY

    ALEBOY Savant (315) Australia May 31, 2003

    What about The Scratch Bar ? It may only be small and have only 4 taps but they rotate with each keg, are far from pedestrian and the bottle list is not shabby either. I really enjoyed my visit in January and think that it might possibly be the coolest beer bar in the country.... not big but certainly cool.
     
  31. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

    I like the idea of a silent cinema. Watching Eisentstein's 'Alexander Nevsky' whilst drinking RI Stouts, big hoppy US IPAs whilst watching 'Birth of A Nation', maybe even a cheeky little Saison with some Buster Keaton. What more could you want.

    On the actually topic, have you discussed this with them in person Mr Mulder? I'm not sure that 'calling out' and slating someone on internet forums is the way to go. It never seems to lead to reasoned discussion. The lack of space and the misconstruing of the written word is all too easy. I mean, no even seems to get my (admittedly crappy) jokes on here.

    Or you could make a movie about it. As far as I'm aware the fellow that made that Kony movie turned out ok....oh wait...
     
  32. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Bros---------------- will you please lock and delete this thread. Much appreciated
     
  33. sirob

    sirob Aficionado (170) Australia May 30, 2007

    Why? Mulder this thread was started by yourself and remains mostly on topic. Why lock and delete?
     
  34. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    I find it amusing that their response to complaints about Melbourne vs Sydney is to just stop updating their online tap list entirely
     
  35. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

    I think it's my bad jokes and snide remarks.

    Anyhoo, is the lack of updating a direct response or happenstance? I don't wish to put comment on TLTH's motives, but from our point of view, we usually only update out tap list once a fortnight/month. It's due to a myriad of reasons, but I kind of like the mystery and joy of discovery when you come in and there is something new and exotic. The amount of turnover we have does make it difficult and time consuming to be constantly up to date, so we do it intermittently. Of course, when we have a massive turnover all of a sudden ie Critics Choice, US April etc we update it, but not on a day to day basis.
     
  36. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Daniel--- was told there is a glitch in the website and they had had trouble updating the website for the last week. That is fair.

    Maybe I am different than you and that is fine. I want to know what I am expecting when I am planning on going. Did that whole mystery bit and got burned as there was nothing I wanted on tap. I am not wasting a hour round trip drive or longer by train to the local to find I have wasted my time and money to find zilch I want.

    If I want discovery I can go to Murray's at Manly, 4 Pines, Red Oak, Schwartz, Australian Hotel or Rocks Brewing, Pumphouse, Lord Nelson or soon to be Young Henry's and discover a beer. Hell, I can open my fridge or a cabinet and discover a better beer that the Local offers 9 times out of 10. How hard is it for them to update a taplist when they are not open in the afternoon on weekdays. I do not want to be told come on down and take a peek when I have other options and better options for a venue. Tell me what you have and let me make a decision. Same with growlers. Give me good options and I will spend money. If I am willing to drive 90 minutes for a Abstrakt 04 what does that say??


     
  37. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012

    Fair point. I'm just trying to offer reasonable explanations as to why the lack of updates. I got the impression from Mr Danieelol's post that he was somehow inferring a sort of cowardice, or a f__k you from TLTH. Apologies if this was not the case.

    Once again I dont know about TLTH, but we do say on our website what is coming up, so people do have a rough idea of what will be about. If they do that, it does mitigate it somewhat, but once again I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I've branched out from just beer....

    As to what the Abstrakt 04 says. It says that we're kindred spirits.
     
  38. joecast

    joecast Advocate (570) Australia Jun 30, 2003

    Probably being unrealistic, but I do like the webcam tap list feature some places in the states are using now. There is also an app (Tap hunter?) that users can update as they visit places (again though, probably a US centric thing). And probably the difficulty with those sort of things is really, how many people will it benefit?

    As much as I would like it, I might go to a pub once to twice a month and then you may have the most regular of regulars who knows every bartenders name and vice versa, and they wouldnt worry one bit what new beer is on.
    Anyway, am I even answering the question?? o_O
     
  39. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Tap hunter is very cool. Have that on my iphone. That would work for here and work well.
     

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