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Opinions on Coors Batch #19

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by Spikester, Dec 7, 2012.

  1. Spikester

    Spikester Savant (450) Oregon Jul 14, 2007

    Touted as a pre-prohibition version of Coors. Very tasty beer IMO. A bit hard to find although the larger Safeway stores in Oregon carry it. I am feeling a bit guilty drinking this stuff as it sells for $7.99 to $8.99 a sixer. It uses a couple of rare hops that I have never heard of and they are trying to resurrect a French barley that was almost extinct for later brews. A very tasty beer.
     
    scootsmal likes this.
  2. A number of posts concerning Batch 19 in this thread: http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/macro-cravings.52750/page-3#post-694396

    Cheers!
     
  3. erichall

    erichall Aficionado (175) Kentucky Nov 13, 2008

    I tried one last week. Tastes like someone poured some amber/alt into a coors light. Better than a coors light but not quite an amber. Can't call this one a craft beer but it has a decent story (albeit contrived) and might get a few BMC drinkers to branch out.
     
    yemenmocha likes this.
  4. kismet

    kismet Aficionado (160) Illinois Sep 8, 2011

    i think it is a really good companion to carry-out pizza or the 12-pack of tacos...TONS more flavor than regular coors or other bmc...a bit too sweet for me to drink/enjoy without food, though. i picked up mine when the liquor store was selling beer at cost...it was $5. not bad at all for that price.
     
  5. StubFaceJoe

    StubFaceJoe Initiate (0) Colorado Nov 24, 2011

    I live near Golden and frequently get the three freebies of this at the brewery. It's got a really unique hop kick right at the front. You can find it super cheap here too. It's been on sale for about 5 a sixer or so.
     
    Ispeakforthetrees likes this.
  6. erichall

    erichall Aficionado (175) Kentucky Nov 13, 2008

    Bud/miller are six per six here. Available on draft but not yet in bottles here.
     
  7. Not a bad beer.
     
  8. Demer

    Demer Aficionado (225) New Jersey Dec 13, 2010

    I enjoyed it.
     
  9. tjmodica

    tjmodica Savant (340) Texas Oct 2, 2007

    Had it on tap at the Denver airport and was shocked how much I liked it.
     
    Bitterbill likes this.
  10. JrGtr

    JrGtr Savant (365) Massachusetts Apr 13, 2006

    Not bad for a Coors product. I wouldn't search it out for myself, but if somone was serving it at a party I wouldn't say no.

    Funny story. Was out last night at a concert and had dinner nearby, at a place that touts their beer selection. I saw Boulevard Wheat on tap, asked for one. She came back that it had been kickeed and offered a Batch 19 in it's place. I went with Paulaner Hefe.
    Also had Allagah white, and Blue Moon as near the style.
     
  11. abecall98

    abecall98 Advocate (540) California Aug 11, 2007

    Haven't seen it, but if it is good as you guys say, maybe I will try it when I start the grill up during some spring bbq's.
     
    RBassSFHOPit2ME likes this.
  12. Actually WANT to try this
     
  13. I tried it at GABF and thought it was pretty tasty. The bock they were serving was good too as I recall.
     
  14. jmgrub

    jmgrub Savant (435) California Nov 20, 2010

    Sounds like this place needs to stop touting their beer selection.
     
    RobertColianni likes this.
  15. mudbug

    mudbug Savant (490) Oregon Mar 27, 2009

    I like it a lot, fills that place where I want a beer to chug down. There was an interesting thread that got kind of sidelined into a discussion about Batch19 being an "All malt" or Adjunct "AAL" so I've been trying to find a list of ingredients. Nearest I have been able to find is a clone recipe that was more or less discussed with the brewer at Coors and that recipe had flaked corn in it. If anyone has more info I'd be interested.
     
  16. Saw it at a local Kroger grocery store the other day, thought about trying it.
     
  17. NWer likes this.
  18. NWer

    NWer Advocate (660) Washington Mar 10, 2009

    I liked it. Very drinkable for a near BMC.
     
  19. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Poobah (1,005) Arizona Jun 18, 2002

    Cool concept but it is NOT the recipe from pre-prohibition - they changed it or tweaked it. And that completely destroys the story behind it.

    I thought it was still watery/light and not really a flavorful beer at all.

    No thanks, Coors. :(
     
    mudbug likes this.
  20. mudbug

    mudbug Savant (490) Oregon Mar 27, 2009

  21. scootsmal

    scootsmal Savant (260) New York Aug 15, 2012

    Had it at a recent festival, was impressed. However, I havent seen it for sale besides on draft in a few places.
     
  22. mudbug

    mudbug Savant (490) Oregon Mar 27, 2009

    But what do you do if you can't get the exact ingredients? My understanding is that they did the very best they could with what is available now. Another thing that keeps coming up is the idea that someone actually can attest to what a pre-prohibition beer tasted like. You would have to be about 120 years old and still have a good memory. Otherwise it's pure speculation.
     
  23. Of course, there are a bunch of beers that are definitely or probably adjunct-brewed in that American Pale Lager category, that claims to be limited to all-malt beers "... brewed without cereal adjuncts (mainly rice or corn)" - like Yuengling Premium, Name Tag, Duquense, Old Reading, Burger, La Crosse Lager, Beach Haus, Huber, OV, etc.
     
  24. I thought something was up as far as Coors' revisionist history the first time I heard of it, based on its name being taken from the last year before Prohibition. Colorado had state-wide prohibition enacted in 1916, so they didn't brew any 5% beers in 1919, nor did most US breweries since the nation was under so-called "Wartime Prohibition" declared by Wilson in August, 1917 as a WWI grain rationing measure and beer was limited to 2.75% alcohol from Jan. 1, 1918 to Dec. 1, 1918, when "Manufacture of all malt liquor ceased".
     
  25. yemenmocha

    yemenmocha Poobah (1,005) Arizona Jun 18, 2002

    I was told this at a beer bar that first served it to me - that's what their Coors guy said to the bartender, but then I confirmed it with one of their representatives at their booth at the GABF. It's not the same recipe. It is similar though.
     
  26. Sam_E

    Sam_E Aficionado (175) Ohio Oct 11, 2012

    I tried this at the International Beer Festival in Cleveland earlier this year. Didnt think it was anything special and haven't seen it around since then.
     
  27. mudbug

    mudbug Savant (490) Oregon Mar 27, 2009

    Ya, you got to love those style criteria. Kind of like a weather report predicting rain with a chance of sunshine, earthquakes and volcanos.
     
    kingofhop likes this.
  28. JrGtr

    JrGtr Savant (365) Massachusetts Apr 13, 2006

    Well, they tout the selection, not their knowledge. The waitresses appear to be hired on the size of their assets - how well they fill out their sweaters as opposed to their brains. And to be fair, they do have a pretty good selection, if you can find a tap list.
     
  29. acelin

    acelin Savant (300) Kansas Feb 14, 2009

    Not sure why BA has such an issue with corn grits. 20% is about right to bring the flavor of 6-row barley in line with a pure 2-row barley brew.
     
  30. Scalzo

    Scalzo Savant (375) Illinois Feb 27, 2012

    One was enough
     
  31. Blueribbon666

    Blueribbon666 Advocate (500) Ohio Jul 4, 2008

    I see it popping up all over the Cleveland area, hard to miss the big 19 on the sixer, Coors has another one I've seen next to it but the name slips my mind.
     

  32. "BA", as in "some posters on the BeerAdvocate forums"? (Rather than the BeerAdvocate website itself or the Brewers Association?).

    As for "Why?":
    • 75+ years in the post-Repeal era in the US of imported German brewers advertising about the Reinheitsgebot being a "German Purity Law".
    • 30+ years of the homebrewers, the AHA and it's affiliates (the old Institute of Brewing Studies, the Association of Brewers and the current Brewers Association) preaching against corn and rice adjuncts in person, in print and on video.
    • Well over a century in the US of a certain percentage of beer drinkers (and some brewers) in the US railing against corn and/or rice usage by American brewers (just a few examples noted in this post).
    Of course, it didn't help the cause of adjunct usage that the most obvious examples were the best selling beers in the US from AB and MC of the light lager and light beer styles; beers which had been devolving into ever-increasing blandness with decreasing IBU's and higher adjunct usage. ;)
     
  33. Derranged

    Derranged Advocate (500) New York Mar 7, 2010

    Still havent seen this. I want it. Now.
     
  34. “30+ years of the homebrewers, the AHA and it's affiliates (the old Institute of Brewing Studies, the Association of Brewers and the current Brewers Association) preaching against corn and rice adjuncts in person, in print and on video.”

    Well, I am a homebrewer and I am doing my best to set the record ‘straight’: The utilization of adjuncts (in particular corn) is not a bad thing as long as it I used properly:

    · Don’t use too much; something like 20% is good
    · Use corn in the proper form: corn grits or flaked corn. Do not use corn syrup!

    Below is a post I made in another thread:

    “Well, it appears that it is time for me to get on my soap box once again.

    So, believe it or not, before prohibition American breweries made tasty lagers. At that time they did not call them Classic American Pilsners. They were just American lagers.

    A Classic American Pilsner is an easy beer to make: I homebrew them a lot. The BJCP style guidelines provide all the information you need.

    In a nutshell:
    · Grain: 80% 6 row malts, 20% corn
    · Hops:
    - For Bittering: Cluster hops 25-40 IBUs (I prefer 40 IBUs)
    - For Flavor: Medium to high hop flavor from noble hops
    - For Aroma: Medium to high hop aroma from noble hops
    · Lager yeast

    A well-made genuine CAP beer is a very enjoyable beer to drink. Any of the BMC breweries or Regional Breweries (e.g., Genesee, etc.) could very easily make CAP beers. All they need to do is back off the amount of adjunct (corn) they use in their regular AAL beers and up their hopping rates (bittering, flavor and aroma hop additions).

    Regards,

    CAP-man
     
    ESPNman likes this.
  35. kingofhop

    kingofhop Savant (430) Oklahoma May 9, 2010

    Jess, why did the big guys start decreasing the IBUs and increasing the adjunct usage in their "original" brands? I understand the popularity of "Lite" but why do the same to, say Bud or Michelob etc? Was it economics? Shifting tastes? I think a lot of younger BAs would be surprised at the hoppiness of the older beers, compared to todays versions.
     
  36. "30+ years of the homebrewers, the AHA and it's affiliates (the old Institute of Brewing Studies, the Association of Brewers and the current Brewers Association) preaching against corn and rice adjuncts in person, in print and on video. "

    My circle of homebrewing friends use a lot of corn for CAPs, British beers, and some Belgian beers.

    I just did an IPA with some rice flake to lighten the body. It is very good, and one would never guess at the use of rice flakes. The WBC winner this year in IPA as Kuhnhenn's DRIPA, which is Doulbe Rice IPA.

    Corn in the 20-25% range is fine with 6 Row, Cluster hops, and noble hops or Styrian Goldings to finish. The Corn, 6-row and Cluster are viewed as inferior by some, but make a tasty Pilsner when used right.

    The best CAPs I have had were done with Grits, Corn Meal or Polenta and a Cereal Mash. The best is one that is done with Grits in a pressure cooker.
     
    jlpred55 likes this.
  37. Most industry discussions I've seen usually put it as mostly the latter - the homogenization of the US palate in general after WWII for all foods and beverages, the rise of the national market and advertising, etc. The fact that most of the "national" shipping breweries were from the mid-West where beers tended to be "lighter" and there was little ale (by convention, usually much hoppier than US lagers) in competition with them than in the Northeast or the West Coast. Of course, that brings "the chicken-or-the-egg" question "Did Pabst/Bud/Schlitz invading the northeast change beer drinkers' taste away for the local hoppier lagers and ales, or did they become popular because they were already less bitter?"

    So the local and regional brewers - the Ballantines, Schaefers and Rheingolds - often saw a portion of their customers switching to the mid-West "imports". Sadly, when they then reformulate their beers to be less bitter, it usually meant they then lost their loyal customers who'd stayed with the local brand, without gaining back those looking for the lighter "modern" taste. Lots of supposition that WWII contributed to it -p opulation moving around the country for jobs or as part of the military, more women in the "non-traditional" jobs and drinking after work in bars (there's a urban legend that it was common for women to add a glass of water to a pitcher of beer to lighten - or just stretch? - it, etc).


    Of course, in the US, the phenomenon of lower bitterness and less hop usage per barrel for US beers had been going on for many decades. One of my favorite examples:

    [​IMG]
    As for "economics" I always found it amusing that Coors was the first US major purchaser of Cascade hops when they initially hit the commercial market in the 1970's. It was not done for changing the flavo or increased bitterness (Coors was already known as one of the lightest US beers in that era before "light beer") but to save money - for them it meant buying fewer hops (and especially few expensive imported hops) for the same level of bitterness.​
     
    Sarlacc83 and mynie like this.
  38. I think that jesskidden has a good summary of the ‘lightening’ (from a flavor perspective) of American beer post-prohibition.

    I think it is interesting that this ‘lightening’ has continued with Budweiser in very recent times (the 20-40 years prior to 2006):

    Below is something I posted recently in another thread which discusses hopping rates in Budweiser over the past 20-40 years, culminating in the year 2006.

    While it may not be totally appropriate to use the description of “cheapening’ for the aspect of diminishing use of hops in making Anheuser-Busch beers over the past 20-40 years I think we should recognize that this indeed happened. The rationale by Anheuser-Busch for this phenomenon is:

    “Mr. Muhleman, who is officially Anheuser's group vice president for brewing and technology, says the company didn't set out to make the beers less bitter. He calls the change "creep," the result of endlessly modifying the beer to allow for changes in ingredients, weather and consumer taste. "Through continuous feedback, listening to consumers, this is a change over 20, 30, 40 years," says Mr. Muhleman, gesturing toward the row of Budweiser cans. "Over time, there is a drift."

    The five Budweiser cans in front of Mr. Busch, dating from 1982, 1988, 1993, 1998 and 2003, were pulled off the production line shortly after they were brewed. They were cooled to minus-321 degrees Fahrenheit over 16 hours and stored at that temperature in a secret laboratory in the company's headquarters.

    The sample cans demonstrate how "creep" works. The difference in taste between two beers brewed five years apart is indistinguishable. Yet, the difference between the 1982 beer and the 2003 beer is distinct. "The bones are the same. It is the same structure," says Mr. Muhleman. Overall, however, "the beers have gotten a little less bitter."

    The above quotes are from an article previously published in the Wall Street Journal in 2006: http://www.drinksforum.com/beer-all/Budweiser-Tinkers-with-the-Recipe-2771-.htm

    Cheers!

    P.S. It is interesting (from solely a business perspective) to see the ever-‘lightening’ of American beers: Budweiser Select 55, Miller Genuine Draft 64, etc.
     
  39. I recently came across the photo on the right of a brewer adding a hop addition to a batch of beer at an Anheuser Busch plant sometime (IIRC) in the 1980's. I immediately laughed and thought of a photo in a book I have from the 1950's, which I later found in a newspaper and credited as being taken in the Pittsburgh's Duquesne Brewing Co. "What a great juxtaposition those two pics would make..." and this thread inspired me to finally do it.

    Perhaps a bit unfair- we don't really know which or how many hop additions each photo represents, if the AB brewer is using pellets, etc. (but it's safe to say that AB's kettles were probably bigger than Duquesne's just by the looks of them).

    [​IMG]
     
  40. That's a typo on my part, corrected above in blue. Certainly (as with anything we discuss around here) there are few absolutes in the beer world and AFAIR even the AHA was not as universally opposed to adjuncts (plus corn sugar added to prime) as it's affiliate the B.A. is today.

    But that is not to say that there isn't still a strong contingent of Reinheitsgebotists™ around, among brewers (pro- and home-) and the beer geekery.
     

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