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Overseas Collabs - your thoughts on impact to the Local Industry

Discussion in 'Australia & New Zealand' started by heygeebee, Jun 4, 2012.

  1. Folks,

    A thought came through me head - a worry I know - after I had excellent Bridge Road/Mikkeller collab Dark Harvest, that it almost seemed as though Mikkeller came and went, and no-one here got excited in any way. No forum activities/comments etc.

    What are your thoughts in general about the impacts on the local craft industry if overseas brewers get in on the act?

    Would you like to see more of this? maybe bigger batch sizes if it happens? or maybe 'just who the hell is Mikkeller anyhow'?

    Discuss.......
  2. spicelab

    spicelab Savant (425) Australia Nov 6, 2009

    I think collaborations are terrific for the industry and a win-win for both parties in almost every case. Even the wine industry agrees:

    http://palatepress.com/2012/04/wine/craft-wine-what-the-wine-industry-can-learn-from-craft-beer/

    Generally think batch sizes are adequate, particularly with the hoppier styles that shouldn't be hanging around on shelves for 6 months or more. In saying this, I'd love to see some kind of agreement struck between the brewers allowing future batches to be brewed by the 'host' party, with full attribution (and possibly an agreed sale share) for the 'visiting' party. That way great beers like Dark Harvest and Thornygoat could become semi-regular. Obviously this would require the full confidence and trust of the visiting brewer.

    Can't immediately think of any downsides.
    Parrotshake and joecast like this.
  3. GrahamYallop

    GrahamYallop Aspirant (35) May 26, 2012

    Impact? Bruised egos from local brew masters who couldn't come up with decent recipes on their own.
  4. danieelol

    danieelol Advocate (510) Australia Jun 15, 2010

    Oh yes, I think we have met before Graham
    jbowers56 likes this.
  5. I thought they were great beers.... Other than Lukie in relation to any beer made by feral, do people on this forum ever hype Australian beer?
    heygeebee likes this.
  6. CrazyDavros

    CrazyDavros Savant (405) Australia Apr 18, 2008

    Glad I'm not the only one with suspicions...


    I think its great that we warrant the attention of brewers such as Beer Here, Mikkeller, Nogne O and Thornbridge. As spicelab said though, it'd be good if these could be more than one-offs. Bigger batch sizes would be a plus. Dark Harvest as well as Freaks and Geeks seemed to have tiny allocations. Although in the case of the latter all their brews are pretty limited...
  7. joecast

    joecast Advocate (570) Australia Jun 30, 2003

    another vote for bigger batches, or even better would be rotating releases.

    only question it raises for me is how much (extra) attention it really brings to local brewers. i mean if you didnt already know about bridge road or mt goat, would these collabs be the thing that convinces someone new to try them out. i really hope it does, i just dont know that for a fact. and that may be a reason we dont see bigger batches. dont know for sure?
  8. Parrotshake

    Parrotshake Savant (345) Australia Nov 29, 2008

    I never got any Dark Harvest. So that's another vote for bigger batches.

    Also, whatever happened to that Feral and Stone collaboration people were talking about on here about a year ago?
  9. Folks,

    Thanks for your responses. My first thoughts were as follows:-

    • The local brewers are in many cases, failing to advertise or capitalise on what I see as a significant opportunity for them. In some instances these are some of the best beers I have had from these brewers. The India Saison, in particular, comes to mind.
    • On the other hand, as other have noted, batch sizes seem very small indeed. Dark Harvest was put on a bottle limit by Beer Cartel, which again does not seem to make business sense. Understand that hoppier styles should not sit on shelves for ages, but a bottle limit seems to suggest that situation is not likely to happen, and that the beer will sell out quickly anyhow.
    • I have seen little press on the collabs, either in Beer Media, or Mainstream.
    • We here on BA also did not get excited, which is the bit that confuses me most. I know the forums are a bit slow these days, but even so...... are we getting jaded? Is the fact that an international brewer visits us to make fresh beer not a big enough occasion to stir us up? Or are we still more excited when a new US shipment arrives?

    Interesting point tho re the re-release scenario. I have just seen the Brewdog/Mikkeller I Hardcore You available again on the Brewdog site. That's about two years after the first batch.

    Food for thought - I have also heard (not from BA) that more local collabs are on the way. High profile or not, that's the question......
  10. MrKennedy

    MrKennedy Advocate (575) Australia Dec 29, 2006

    Would you like a bottle? If so, shoot me a convo and i'll send you one.
  11. CrazyDavros

    CrazyDavros Savant (405) Australia Apr 18, 2008

    Interesting that you mention that. Those that get the Red Duck newsletter will already be aware of the many beers scheduled for July, but I'm looking forward to their upcoming collabs:

    In collaboration with Christian Skovdal Anderson, of Beer
    Here, we created Ragnarok - a Belgian inspired quad with just a
    very small pinch of dried chilli. At 11% its totally suitable for an
    “end of the world” beer.
    In collaboration with Anders Kissmeyer (noerrebro bryghus and
    Kissmeyer beer) we managed 3 brews:
    Hop Bach 10.5% - a symphony of 25 different hops in a double
    (triple?) IPA,
    Rebellion 7% - Strong Ballarat Pale Ale
    Gnaume 6.2% - an Orval inspired lambic pale ale, with some
    very funky and dangerous lambic yeasts added.

    Presumably Ragnarok and Hop Bach was garner a fair bit of attention. Gnaume too I spose. Any idea what makes a beer a "Ballarat Pale Ale"?
  12. spicelab

    spicelab Savant (425) Australia Nov 6, 2009

  13. I love the concept of a collaboration brew, but am rarely motivated to chase down the execution. I would have done blue murder to try Temple's Weihenstephan collaboration, but loading the family wagon and driving for an hour is something that I just never got around to doing.

    At the moment I think the collab is more fun from the perspective of the people making it. From my perspective t's about building links and foundations for the small brewing industry, as well as increasing a shared knowledge base.

    Sometimes it's also about coincidence and just plain fun. To me the Thorny Goat was all about my brother-in-law taking a holiday back home, for example :)
  14. Lukie

    Lukie Savant (415) Australia Jun 16, 2007

    There is a lot of new collaboration stuff happening at the moment, and I think we should be thankful to all of the hard working importers/distributors who are bringing the brewers out here to this country. The list has been incredible thus far, and I might be missing someone:
    Beer Here
    Mikkeller
    Weihenstephaner (the head brewer of the entire operation, mind you!)
    Nogne-O
    Moylans
    Sierra Nevada
    Weltenburger (landing next week)

    And there are a couple more coming over. Not all have done collaborations, but who would have thought that Weihenstephaner, one of the most prestigious breweries in the world, would do a collab with a local producer?

    Anyway, reason I quoted the above. I don't think local breweries are captilalising on the beers themselves. I'm not sure on what is happening overseas, but the IBS can't keep these beers in stock, let alone get some of them because they are so limited. 20 cases of Mikkeller/Mountain Goat collab sold in less then 2 weeks.

    I think batch sizes are limited to the size of the brew kits. Some of the guys are running fairly small kits, and can only do one run while the brewers are here. I like the idea that Nogne-O/Bridge Rd had, and they added the collab as a regular to both the ranges. I don't see how bottle limits are necessarily a bad thing, and it goes to show how much craft beer is growing in our market. This is something I have done 4 times so far this year alone, and will likely do with continual limited releases so that more people can get a hold of them. They sell out way quicker then you might think, and without a bottle limit, there is always going to be that one spoil sport who wants it all.

    I think our BA community is far too small to think we are of too much importance in regards to what gets talked about in the "mainstream" craft beer drinkers. Most of the guys here are bordering on the insane (or I am, anyway) in terms of beer drinking. Plus there are only around 20 regular uses, if that.

    It's a good thread, and has brought up some good discussion.
    spicelab and hawthorne00 like this.
  15. sinkas

    sinkas Aficionado (170) Australia Jul 9, 2008

    I am surprised to hear that the india saison is a regular relesae,
    seem to fly in the face of the "Moment of meeting/artistic expression" that I thought was the point of these types of brews.
    nevertheless, the dark harvest, adn gypsy were damn tasty, ,
    I am however a little puzzled to see why a new brand, like Two birds, who make a single rather dull beer, need to collaborate with another small brewer at the moment.
    I thought it was about the meeting of two estabilshd forces rather than simeply a PR stunt

    I hope they continue,
  16. Lukie

    Lukie Savant (415) Australia Jun 16, 2007

    Ben and Kjetel both loved how the India Saison turned out, so added it to the regular line-up. They are distinctly their own beers, but the collaboration was more in terms of developing a recipe, then brewing it, by the sounds of things.

    EDIT:

    Geez, re-reading my post from above, so many spelling mistakes... haha. Don't gueuze and type!
  17. MrKennedy

    MrKennedy Advocate (575) Australia Dec 29, 2006

    Beer Cartel has bottle limits on quite a few things. It stops people going in and cleaning them out...well it's either the bottle limit or their trading hours that stops it...
  18. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Hopeless shop. Dull growler selection, no fridge space at all, customer service that makes Meyer seem world class. BUT if you kiss their ass on the other site and give them a good review you get a free glass. Oh yea, the hours are great. Need to take a day offof work to visit them with those hours.
  19. Love collabs and hope to see plenty more, really cant think of a bad one. Bring on Moon Dog and Beer Here!!!
    Lukie likes this.
  20. MordeciaFunk

    MordeciaFunk Savant (260) Australia Feb 14, 2012


    I remember the first time I met Kjetel.
    Me: So your a pilot that looks like a Viking and brews great beer.
    Kjetel: Yes.
    Me: You are my new god.

    Next Sunday at church...

    Me: Our Kjetel who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name.
    Father Tom: Brenden your saying the wrong words.
    Me: No I'm not Father Tom, no I'm not....

    On the topic. I think theyre great too. Anything that helps the flow of information and practices to our shores is good by me. Also, these are some pretty damn f___ing good brewers, and if theyre willing to work with our people, I think that says something about a)the skill set our brewers have and b) the reputation we have as a nation.

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