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Prague lager Looking for a recipe

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by azorie, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    Really want to homebrew some lagers, but I am not a big fan of pilsners types, but would like to attempt lagers from Prague and would enjoy the darker ones the best, any one have any recipes? Not sure what "style" that is I assume Czech lager? maybe?
    Thanks in advance, I have beersmith software. I searched their site some and so far no luck.

    cheers!:D

    please excuse any ignorance on my part about lagers, just never drank that many of them(since I found ale) and I know next to nothing about them...
  2. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    i found one so i go buy the malt and go for it. Its on the net, its called Ivan the wonderful czech dark lager. if any 1 want its I can post the link.... doubt any 1 cares...:D
  3. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (355) Louisiana Dec 3, 2005

    Like a Munich dunkel...?

    Munich Dunkel from BJCP guidelines:
    "Flavor: Dominated by the rich and complex flavor of Munich malt, usually with melanoidins reminiscent of bread crusts. The taste can be moderately sweet, although it should not be overwhelming or cloying. Mild caramel, chocolate, toast or nuttiness may be present. Burnt or bitter flavors from roasted malts are inappropriate, as are pronounced caramel flavors from crystal malt. Hop bitterness is moderately low but perceptible, with the balance tipped firmly towards maltiness. Noble hop flavor is low to none. Aftertaste remains malty, although the hop bitterness may become more apparent in the medium-dry finish. Clean lager character with no fruity esters or diacetyl.

    Overall Impression: Characterized by depth and complexity of Munich malt and the accompanying melanoidins. Rich Munich flavors, but not as intense as a bock or as roasted as a schwarzbier."

    Or a Schwarbier...?

    BJCP Guidelines
    "Flavor: Light to moderate malt flavor, which can have a clean, neutral character to a rich, sweet, Munich-like intensity. Light to moderate roasted malt flavors can give a bitter-chocolate palate that lasts into the finish, but which are never burnt. Medium-low to medium bitterness, which can last into the finish. Light to moderate noble hop flavor. Clean lager character with no fruity esters or diacetyl. Aftertaste tends to dry out slowly and linger, featuring hop bitterness with a complementary but subtle roastiness in the background. Some residual sweetness is acceptable but not required.

    Overall Impression: A dark German lager that balances roasted yet smooth malt flavors with moderate hop bitterness."

    There is also Vienna lagers and oktoberfests to consider. If you can narrow down to a style, there are many good recipes to use.
  4. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    this is the recipe: http://www.examiner.com/article/i-brew-my-own-version-of-u-fleku-dark-lager

    Ivan the Wonderful’s Czech Dark Lager
    • Target Original gravity 1.048 (12 B)
    • Approximate Final gravity 1.012 (3 B)
    • IBU's - about 22
    • Approximate color: 22 SRM (44 EBC)
    • Alcohol: 4.5% by volume
    All Grain Recipe for 5 gallons (19 l)
    • 80% extract efficiency
    • 6 lbs. (2.7 kg) Pilsener malt
    • 1 lb. (454 gm) Munich malt
    • 8 oz. (225 gm) aromatic malt
    • 8 oz. (225 gm) dextrin-type malt
    • 4 oz. (113 gm) caramunich® malt
    • 4 oz. (113 gm) German black carafe® malt
    • 1.25 oz. (35 gm) Czech Saaz hops 3.7% alpha (4.6 HBU/130 MBU) – 60 minute boiling
    • 1 oz. (28 gm) Mt. Hood hops 4% alpha (4 HBU/112 MBU) – 15 minute boiling
    • 1/4 tsp (1 gm) powdered Irish moss
    • Czech lager yeast
    • 3/4 cup (175 ml measure) corn sugar (priming bottles) or 0.33 cups (80 ml) corn sugar for kegging
    A step infusion mash is employed to mash the grains. Add 8.5 quarts (8.1 l) of 140 degree F (60 C) water to the crushed grain, stir, stabilize and hold the temperature at 132 degrees F (53 C) for 30 minutes. Add 4 quarts (3.8 l) of boiling water and add heat to bring temperature up to 155 degrees F (68 C) and hold for about 30 minutes. Then raise temperature to 167 degrees F (75 C), lauter and sparge with 3.5 gallons (13.5 l) of 170 degree F (77 C) water. Collect about 5.5 gallons (21 l) of runoff. Add 60-minute hops and bring to a full and vigorous boil.
    The total boil time will be 60 minutes. When 15 minutes remain add the 15-minute hops. When 10 minutes remain add the Irish moss. After a total wort boil of 60 minutes turn off the heat and place the pot (with cover on) in a running cold-water bath for 30 minutes. Continue to chill in the immersion or use other methods to chill your wort. Then strain and sparge the wort into a sanitized fermenter. Bring the total volume to 5 gallons (19 l) with additional cold water if necessary. Aerate the wort very well.
    Pitch the yeast when temperature of wort is about 70 degrees F (21 C). Once visible signs of fermentation are evident ferment at temperatures of about 55 degrees F (12.5 C) for about one week or when fermentation shows signs of calm and stopping. Rack from your primary to a secondary. If you have the capability “lager” the beer at temperatures between 35- 45 degrees F (1.5-7C) for 4-6 weeks.

    Prime with sugar and bottle or keg when complete.

    what style is that 1?
    czech dark pils?????
  5. Sounds like you want to brew a Tmavé Pivo, which is a dark Czech lager. It's related to Munich Dunkel or Schwazbier but is a distinct style that you don't find often out of it's homeland.

    Basically, you want a base of Bohemian pilsner malt and some munich malt, a significant portion of medium caramel malt, and a dehusked black malt for color. Then hop it with all saaz hops like you would a pilsner (maybe a little lower on the bitterness) and ferment with a czech lager yeast. I've never brewed the style myself but have seen several credible recipes that are all based on this framework. The new issue of BYO magazine has an article on dark lagers that gives a recipe for a Tmavé. I would definitely pick that up.
    azorie likes this.
  6. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    ok I am going to store now...style was not that important, just was wondering if any 1 made it and this guy online has and he is a famous beer writer etc etc....be back in a bit.
  7. azorie likes this.
  8. Soft water and a double decoction in addition to what Bulletrain76 says.

    There is a recipe in the new Hops book. They say brew at night so the darkness gets into the beer...
  9. scurvy311

    scurvy311 Savant (355) Louisiana Dec 3, 2005

    The depth and breath of the information on this forum constantly amazes me.
  10. Look at the category 23. Czech Dark lagers are included there. They don't fit the closely defined categories.
    azorie likes this.
  11. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    That's a Tmavý (Černý) Ležák.

    The U Fleku beer is a Tmavé Speciální Pivo.

    The BJCP style guidlines so a great job of toally ignoring Czech beer styles. Even the definition of the one they do have is wrong and has the wrong name.
    azorie likes this.
  12. Ron, you and Marquis would make an awesome Professional Wrestling tag team! And, that’s a fact, Jack!:)

    Cheers!
  13. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    thanks! I am glad I found it and I cannot wait to try it. Its been so long since I visited there and I cannot really remember how those tasted. So I wanted to homebrew something maybe? like it? I hope so. Frigging airfare is just too high for us sadly.:mad:
  14. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    Thanks but I really just wanted some dark lager, those BJCP things mean nothing to me. its just funny its not even described correctly on this site even...but hey we all learn something new in beer...
  15. For those interested in Czech beer , here's Ron's pages on the subject;apologies to those who already know about them :)
    http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/czecintr.htm
    azorie likes this.
  16. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    thanks I had seen them before but I only been Home Brewing seriously for 1.5 years now. Thanks Again for all you do...
  17. Was pointing out to the guy who posted funnel and Schwartz guidelines that it would not belong there.

    These are fine beers that most people are not familiar with, let alone homebrew. I have not made one, but have started making more obscure lagers that don't fit into a category, and will make one some day.
  18. azorie

    azorie Advocate (715) Florida Mar 18, 2006

    Yes I know I follow all the posts, not just a few like many do, I actually read it all and even think about it...;)

    Was my first 3 step mash, I watched many do it. I read about it for awhile, and it seemed to go fine. Time will tell. I use beersmith directions, so far so good. Still learning everyday. using Ro water so I assume the biggest difference will be exact yeast, water, and malted grain. Still it will be close enough I hope.

    It also was my first "lager" to brew.
  19. It is always interesting to read what your tag team partner (Ron) has to write.

    I personally, over the years, got my education on Czech beers (present day and history) from Evan Rail. I think you would enjoy his writings since he is a kindred spirit; an example of some of his writing:

    “But at the moment, Central Europe’s storied brewing history seems to be getting less attention in this regard, at least in English beer writing — a pity, because our beer culture suffers from at least as many inaccuracies, misunderstandings and made-up backstories as those northwest of here. (I’m not convinced, for example, that Prague’s traditional beer style is the U-Fleků-style dark lager, or even that “the standard medieval Czech brew was decidedly dark, not blond,” as Horst Dornbusch has written. That clearly wasn’t the case by 1672, when Bohuslav Balbín wrote that “Pražskému pšeničnému, jemuž se říká světlé, se může máloco rovnat, pokud jde o blahodárné účinky,” or, roughly, “There may be little equal to Prague wheat beer, which is called ‘pale’, in terms of its beneficial effects.”)”

    Cheers!

    P.S. I will be transferring my homebrewed Bohemian Pilsener to a secondary (carboy) today to start lagering that beer. You just gotta love a fresh Bohemian Pilsener.:)
  20. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    Evan has got me rethinking some of my ideas about Czech beer. Especially the colour of 19th-century Prague beer.

    Evan's work on Czech beer is the most exciting research into beer history currently being undertaken. The quote is about wheat beer. What I found more interesting was what's he's discovered about Prague beer from the late 1800's.

    Based on dark beers like U Fleku and Branik 12 - and what Michael Jackson wrote - I'd assumed that Prague's first Lagers had been dark. That it was like Munich: all dark in the 19th century, mostly pale after WW II. What Evan has been uncovering is very different.

    I'm looking forward to his further discoveries.
  21. patto1ro

    patto1ro Advocate (500) Netherlands Apr 26, 2004

    Some of my favourite Franconian beers fall into that don't-fit-into-a-category category.
  22. Yes, I too find Evan’s writings intriguing.

    You learn something new every day!:)

    Cheers!
  23. Brewed a Landbier with little recipe info, and came close. Agee that it fits into no "style", so it will not be entered in any comps.
  24. Bells makes Quinnanon(SP) Falls lager, and that does not fit any style. Tasty beer that I want to make something like.

  25. There certainly is no BJCP style for a beer such as Bell’s Quinannan Falls Lager. BA states: “This beer is retired; no longer brewed.” Is that true?

    Bell’s Quinannan Falls Lager is classified as an American Pale Lager on BA. Is there any consideration to create a beer style like American Pale Lager for the BJCP?

    Cheers!

    P.S. If you are successful in cloning this beer please share your recipe. I have only had this beer twice (on draft) and it is indeed a very tasty beer!
  26. Jack,

    Some I know said it could be brewed again. It is a lager thaf uses American noble derived hops. I would have to think about the malt, OG (fairly high) and hops. I will finish it with Crystal hops. Yeast might just be 34/70.
  27. Jeff, I apologize for being ill informed. What exactly are “American noble derived hops”? Is there a list of these ‘types’ of hops? Is Bell’s Quinannan Falls Lager solely hopped with these ‘types’ of hops?

    Cheers!
  28. Libertye="JackHorzempa, post: 868888, member: 55094"]Jeff, I apologize for being ill informed. What exactly are “American noble derived hops”? Is there a list of these ‘types’ of hops? Is Bell’s Quinannan Falls Lager solely hopped with these ‘types’ of hops?

    Cheers![/quote]
    Liberty, My. Hood, Ultra, Crystal, Vangaurd were bred from Hallertau Mittelfrueh.
    Santium from Tettnenger.
    Sterling from Saaz.

    That is off the top of my head.

    Edit I remember that they used Amercan derived "noble" hops for this one to give it an American twist.
  29. Liberty, My. Hood, Ultra, Crystal, Vangaurd were bred from Hallertau Mittelfrueh.
    Santium from Tettnenger.
    Sterling from Saaz.

    That is off the top of my head.

    Edit I remember that they used Amercan derived "noble" hops for this one to give it an American twist.[/quote]


    Thanks Jeff! I learned something new today!

    Cheers!
  30. Liberty, My. Hood, Ultra, Crystal, Vangaurd were bred from Hallertau Mittelfrueh.
    Santium from Tettnenger.
    Sterling from Saaz.

    That is off the top of my head.

    Edit I remember that they used Amercan derived "noble" hops for this one to give it an American twist.[/quote]


    When I start working out my own lager recipes (hopefully soon), I plan on using American hops exclusively, and the hops you've listed will be where I start. I was told once that Metropolitan Flywheel is all American noble-derived hops, can't remember which though.
  31. FWIW, BA classifies Flywheel as a German Pilsner.

    From the Metropolitan website, a description of Flywheel:

    The kinetic beauty of spicy hops grabs you by the nose and lets you know: this is German-inspired beer. A mild, bready malt sweetness greets you at the lips, smoothing the crisp hop flavors. Flywheel is meant for bombastic celebrations of singing voices and clamoring mugs. But then, that first contented moment of happy hour is uniquely celebratory as well.

    Cheers!
  32. I don't doubt that they are going for a German-inspired beer, and I know that they use a German lager yeast and German malts as well. I like these hops because they were developed to be domestic substitutes for noble hops, but ended up with a character all their own. They give you a nice option to stick with American hops but differentiate aroma from varieties typical for pale ales.
  33. Sounds good to me. Please report back which hops you select and how the beer turns out.

    Cheers!

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