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Recipe advice- Belgium triple

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by slayerhellfire, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. 5 gallon batch size

    6.50 boil size @ 60 min

    assumed 70 % efficiency

    11 pounds Pilsner malt
    1 pound Belgian aromatic
    3 pounds belgian clear candi sugar- possibly just use table sugar?? Boil in the last 15 min ?


    Hops

    2.0 oz Hallertau @ 60 min
    .50 oz US saaz @ 15 min

    Yeast

    Wyeast Trappist high gravity 3787 w/ 3 liter starter

    Mash @ 152 for 1 hour- batch sparge as normal

    cool to pitching temp

    ferment @ 65 f 1 -2 weeks, raise to 70- 75 for the rest.

    Let me know what you guys think, thanks!
     
  2. maybe MT. hood for bittering
     
  3. epk

    epk Savant (325) New Jersey Jun 10, 2008

    Many people will tell you to just use table sugar (as you mentioned).
     
  4. yeah thats what I was thinking
     
  5. How dose this recipe look I really want to have a nice tripel when all said and done
     
  6. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    A few comments on the fermentables...
    - That's a lot of sugar for a 5 gallon batch of Tripel IMO. Not crazy high, but a lot.
    - With so much sugar, I would consider doing a couple of things...
    ---- use corn sugar instead of table sugar. The boil might invert table sugar, but I don't know how efficiently it will do that with such a large amount. Someone else may know. I would probably play it safe without better information on that
    ---- consider adding the sugar to the wort at or after high krausen instead of to the boil. The yeast may thank you for that.
     
  7. yeah I was thinking of adding the sugar at the end of the boil...and just stiring it in while it's cooling
     
  8. I personally would just use regular table sugar. I use 2 lbs. of table sugar in my Dubbels (OG = 1.066) and the beer turns out fine. You can add the sugar anytime in the boil; boil for the last 15 minutes is fine.

    Wyeast 3787 is a great yeast (that is what I use for my Dubbels). If you are looking for a noticeable ‘Belgiany’ character (esters and phenols) then you do not want to primary ferment at 65°F. Wyeast 3787 is pretty neutral at cooler temperatures like 65°F. If you want character it is OK to pitch at 65°F but you then want to ramp up fairly quickly in temperature (over a couple of days). I prefer to ferment around 72°F with this yeast to obtain ‘Belgiany’ character.

    Good luck with your Tripel!

    Cheers!
     
  9. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (290) Michigan Mar 21, 2009

    I agree with Vikeman. I would cut the sugar to 2 lbs. I also agree with jack that you should ferment a little warmer. Good luck with your Triple!
     
  10. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    That would be my last choice with table sugar. You won't invert any sugar this way. Well, you will, but the yeast will have to do it themselves.
     
  11. sarcastro

    sarcastro Savant (415) Michigan Sep 20, 2006

    Wondering if people add it sugar granules directly to the fermenter or boil it in some water first.
     
  12. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    I have added sugar directly (no boiling) without problems, but I would assume boiling first reduces the (already small) risk of infection. I would also think that having the sugar already in a (boiled water) solution would speed up dispersal/dissolution in the wort too.
     
  13. There are some people who believe that sugar is fine to just throw into the fermenter once the beer's alcohol level is high enough since the sugar is dry and rare for something alcohol resistant to grow in it, but I say why risk that theory on a beet that is already beer? I say boil in a tiny bit of water; enough to pour into the fermenter.
     
  14. can I just throw it in the last 10 min or so of the boil, while stiring it in
     
  15. Ricelikesbeer

    Ricelikesbeer Savant (350) Colorado Nov 29, 2006

    Recipe looks great, but I'd maybe halve the aromatic, unless you are looking for a little more color in your tripel. Table sugar would work fine. I like to add a few oz. at a time after primary fermentation slows down to help the yeast finish out. I would maybe add 2 lbs in the boil and then add a little at a time if you want to go that route, but adding it all in the boil is fine too. If you can slowly raise the temperature as the beer finishes you'll be happy with that yeast and the esters/phenols it creates. Good luck!
     
  16. You sure can and that will 'work' just fine.

    Cheers!
     
  17. yeah I plan on raising the temp, I am converting a chest freezer into a fermentation chamber with a control box so it should be right on the nose.
     
  18. I just did a bit of an experiment that might be relevant - I brewed 9 gals of tripel with a standard grain bill, then split the batch. Same yeast, but I added 2lb of table sugar to half, and 2lb of honey to the other half after a few days of fermentation. So far, the honey is a clear winner for everyone that has tried it. It seems to add a bit of body, and just a slight sweetness that still manages to finish dry.
     
    slayerhellfire likes this.
  19. Ricelikesbeer

    Ricelikesbeer Savant (350) Colorado Nov 29, 2006

    Very nice. I think temperature control is a main factor in brewing that a lot of brewers either neglect or simply do not have the resources to monitor.

    3787 def. benefits from some elevated temps towards the end of fermentation. It has a tendency to act like rocket fuel at the beginning of fermentation, and then stalls or slows down. With your big starter and higher temps you should have no issues.
     
  20. Ricelikesbeer

    Ricelikesbeer Savant (350) Colorado Nov 29, 2006

    I've never had any issues adding sugar directly to the fermenting wort. I normally add it when the fermentation is slowing down. (and only a few oz. at a time) I then shake or swirl the fermenter as best as I can to keep the yeast in suspension. (Don't plug the carboy during this time as pressure will build...)
     
  21. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    How would you explain the slight sweetness in the honey version (that is presumably not present in the sugar version)? All of the sugar content from the honey should have fermented out. Thinking some more... 2 lbs of honey contains less sugar than 2 lbs of sugar...So...I wonder if the slightly lower alcohol in the honey version is a factor in this.

    The body comment is interesting too. A typical honey might contain something like 0.5% protein. And the water portion of the honey would have a teensy bit higher gravity than the equivalent sugar derived alcohol portion from the sugar.
     
  22. We all know how fired up you get every time someone mentions honey on here. However, we also know that some tiny amount like .001th of a C*@t hair are left behind and can be perceived in the aroma or flavor. Now while it may not be sweet per say, the aroma is going to tell out brains that it is sweet so it doesn't matter whether it really is or not.
     
  23. With that much Pilsner malt, I'd up your boil time to 90 minutes, just in case there are any DMS issues.
     
  24. You know, I thought the same thing. But I have given these two beers to many people blind, and they agree. I know the sugar should completely ferment out, but there is still a definite taste and smell of "honey". Not strong, but there. I think maybe this leads to a perception of sweetness. It totally makes the difference on the beer.

    Bottom line, to me at least it proved that not all sugars are created equal.
     
  25. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    Yeah. I would expect some taste and smell of honey. That's why we add it. But not the sweetness. But I think you and sarge may have hit the nail on the head, i.e. that the (non-sweet) honey flavors may have a mental association with sweetness.
     
  26. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    Heh. It's been a while since I've been really fired up around here.
    But I think you and Doug may be onto something with a perception of sweetness based on an associated flavor/aroma.
     
    sergeantstogie likes this.
  27. The best tripel I made (indeed, my favorite beer of my 66 batches) used 12 lbs of Pilsner malt and 2 lbs of granulated sugar added with ~20 left in the boil. I would agree that 3 lbs might be a bit much, but the aromatic could add something interesting.

    Purely an anecdote, but ... I used 3787 with a starter in a tripel once and did not love the results. This was before I had real temperature control, but still; it's made me wary of the strain since. My delicious tripel used 1214 which I re-pitched from a lower gravity Belgian blonde, and I *loved* the outcome. So ... if you're still on the fence about yeast, 1214 is something to consider.

    A note on adding sugar to an already-fermenting brew: sugar itself has tons of antimicrobial properties, hence its indefinite shelf life and use in curing and preserving foods. Adding plain dry sugar should not be able to introduce bugs to your beer.
     
  28. MaineMike

    MaineMike Savant (290) Maine Jan 22, 2011

    Make the table sugar around 20%. If you're pitching a big healthy starter, add the sugar during the boil. If not, I'd boil it up and add it towards the end of primary.
     
  29. satxbrew

    satxbrew Disciple (65) Texas Jun 13, 2011

    If you are using 3787, you should use two carboys. This yeast has a large krausen and will send a lot of your yeast out of the top. If the yeast is not in your carboy, it cannot ferment the beer, and tripel needs to finish dry. I would start below 70 for a week, and then let it go into the mid to high 70s for a couple of weeks. I have made a couple of hot, strong Belgians with this yeast. Blonds are ok to leave a couple days cool, and then ramp up the temp, but higher gravity beers need a little more time cool. Just throw your sugar in the boil. I have done it both ways, and adding it later is just a hassle. I would just use 2 Lbs of table sugar and a 90 min boil. Good luck with your brew.

    I am not a big honey fan, but tripel often develops a honey character as it oxidizes, and I prefer that over the sherry, oxidation that often shows up in Barley Wines.
     
  30. yinzer

    yinzer Savant (385) Pennsylvania Nov 24, 2006

    At any point will we stop taking about sugars and talk about yeast?
     
  31. bctdi

    bctdi Aficionado (200) Georgia Dec 8, 2008

    I would replace a pound of the sugar with a pound of pilsner malt and I agree with what another poster said about upping the boil time to 90 minutes. You should never do a 60 minute boil with that much pilsner malt. You want to boil all that dms precurser out. Another thing i would do is lower your mash temp to 148 or 149 for maximum attenuation and a dryer beer.
     
  32. exactly. or fermentation temp.

    you may want to consider the 1st 2 days at high 60s/low 70s, then let that fucker ride high into the 70s or the low 80s.
    that would be trappist style. let it sizzle away. then cool condition after transfering to a secondary. give it time to clean up.
    too lazy to see what your OG is, but that's what i'd do fermentation-wise. more neat-o flavours.
     
  33. Do you mean a discussion such as below!?!;)

    "Wyeast 3787 is a great yeast (that is what I use for my Dubbels). If you are looking for a noticeable ‘Belgiany’ character (esters and phenols) then you do not want to primary ferment at 65°F. Wyeast 3787 is pretty neutral at cooler temperatures like 65°F. If you want character it is OK to pitch at 65°F but you then want to ramp up fairly quickly in temperature (over a couple of days). I prefer to ferment around 72°F with this yeast to obtain ‘Belgiany’ character."
     

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