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Report bad trader for botched IP trade?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by jsboots21, Jul 31, 2014.

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  1. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    Has this happened to anyone before? Here's the scenario:

    Started conversation with a guy visiting my town who wanted to do an IP trade. We quickly agreed to a trade, which led me to purchase the beers I was trading to him. Furthermore, we set up a tasting 2 weeks in advance based on his schedule. This tasting included my normal group and was specially scheduled to accommodate the person visiting from out of town.

    The weekend before the trade/tasting is to occur, he messages me asking for recommendations in my city and if I can meet him at almost 10 PM on a Sunday to complete our trade. He made no comments that he couldn't come to our event on Tuesday or that he wouldn't be able to complete the trade if I didn't meet him on such short notice. I respond that I can't meet and provide a few recommendations.

    Tuesday, the day the tasting/trade are to happen, rolls around. He hasn't responded to my recommendation message. I message him my phone number and ask him to text me regarding that night's event. No responses. We all show up at the location of the tasting and he never arrives, nor does he message me to say he won't be coming.

    That's essentially the entire story. Anyone experience this before? Suggestions about what I should do? I honestly don't know the etiquette for handling a botched IP trade.
  2. Man, that's really shitty of him. It has happened to several people here where the out-of-state visiting trader just doesn't show up and gives no communications whatsoever.

    Personally think that whenever you specifically spent the money to get beer for the trade and the trader bails on you, especially with no communication, that's a bad trader. While the tasting part isn't as severe, it certainly adds insult to injury consider the expectation. I'd out him so that other people won't have to go through the same thing that you did.
    kmello69, cfh64, blue-dream and 2 others like this.
  3. cavedave

    cavedave Champion (940) New York Mar 12, 2009

    Yeah def worthy of a shout out with his user name here. What a dick.
  4. jrnyc

    jrnyc Advocate (630) New York Mar 21, 2010

    Have you sent him a beer mail since then? If you have and he has not responded out him now. You may want to give him a chance, but based on the facts you have presented it warrants a public outing now.
  5. A trade is a trade, IP or not. At least BM me, @cavedave and @mythaeus (and whoever else wants it) with his info for our personal DNT lists.

    But really you should just out him. The least he could is apologize for wasting your and your friends' time.
    blue-dream likes this.
  6. blue-dream

    blue-dream Moderator (565) Illinois Aug 22, 2013 Staff Member

    please BM me his name too so i can add to my DNT list, but i think you should out him for the good of the community.
    jrnyc likes this.
  7. markgugs

    markgugs Champion (980) New Jersey Dec 20, 2006

    jesus christ, just out the guy already. I'm so sick of these threads

    sorry OP, don't mean to direct my vitriol at you. but I can guarantee that I'm not the only one sick of the dancing around. maybe if more folks took a hardline, it would give these d-bags pause before screwing the next guy over.
    BlumBeer, dmbforever, 64vdub and 6 others like this.
  8. miketd

    miketd Advocate (510) Ohio Mar 2, 2006

    I would let it go.
    RayOhioFelton and maximum12 like this.
  9. cavedave

    cavedave Champion (940) New York Mar 12, 2009

    I actually got rid of my do not trade list after a discussion with someone on it convinced me he was on their improperly, and others might be as well. If I had been more careful with who made it on it might be different, but I wasn't apparently.

    I actually rarely accept a trade nowadays with someone whom I have not already traded with, or don't know personally.
  10. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    Sent him a message on Wednesday morning after he failed to show up or even communicate with me regarding Tuesday night. Still no response.

    I chose to ask before doing it because I wanted to know what the community's stance on this is. Having never had an IP trade go bad, I thought it was better to ask than just run out guns-a-blazin'. I agree that accountability should help minimize these events in the future. Now that I see everyone thinks outing him is best, that's what will happen.

    Username is @IPAFan521.

    To clarify, his message about meeting on Sunday was sent at 8:20 PM and I noticed it at 9:58 PM via an email notification. That is still the last message I received from him despite my initial response and two subsequent messages.
    jrnyc likes this.
  11. I think even @markgugs can admit that the community has occasionally called a Bad Trader thread premature with some asperity, so I'm sure you were just trying to obviate that.

    But, as @markgugs also said, this situation is pretty cut-and-dry. Sucks that this happened to you.

    @IPAFan521 care to chime in?
  12. maximum12

    maximum12 Champion (755) Minnesota Jan 21, 2008

    'Liked' for making this writer/ex-Journalism major being forced to look up the meaning of asperity. And always loved the word 'obviate'. /end word geekism
    JamesShoemaker and jsboots21 like this.
  13. Guessing he will reply that friends/gf/wife/dog didn't give him time to meet up or he just got cold feet about meeting strange people. If that was the case my advice to him if you are reading this is just send the OP an honest reason, don't make up some big excuse, just say you f'd up, offer to send free beers and hope you can build cred back up. Just ignoring it makes it worse.
  14. jsboots21

    jsboots21 Savant (280) Tennessee Jan 19, 2009

    He stated from day one that he was on a work trip and had a restrictive schedule. We planned around his schedule. I'm not sure what the cause is. He had a perfect trade history before this so I honestly hope he's OK. He traded with several people I know, all of whom provided glowing feedback. Definitely seems out of character, but it happened nonetheless.
  15. Yea he does have a pretty solid history on here and was posting up until this Sunday then nothing, hope it was just something simple that came up for him
  16. But was hitting up that beer checkin app on monday....sorry waiting for a server to rebuild so I'm killing time playing internet bad trader hunting
  17. "In the Beer Advocate System the people are represented by two separate, yet equally important groups. The forum members who investigate bad trades and the automated trade system used to prosecute the offenders. These are their stories."
  18. IPAFan521

    IPAFan521 Savant (460) Illinois Jan 20, 2013

    I honestly do not know what to say. I am a very vocal member here on BA in my normal threads. I flew into Nashville on Sunday and was supposed to have all afternoon to relax and enjoy the city. That did not happen because I was pulled into work that whole afternoon. By the time I got checked into my hotel and showered, I didn't have much time to roam the city and decided to cab it over to downtown. I sent a message that I was there for the only purpose of seeing if he possibly wanted to hang out. He said he cannot meet and to stay dry (never checked the weather before that and realized it was going to be a down pour in an hour or so) so I headed back to the hotel.

    As he stated, I was in town for a work conference. This was my first time at this conference and I did not know what to expect. I told him that the only possible time I would be able to meet would be Tuesday night, and I was not 100% sure what time I would be finished (we were responsible for breaking down out own booth after the show ended). That took much longer than I had expected. By the time I got back to my room, all I could do was pass out and hope that I was awake in time for my morning meeting.

    Long story short, I have your bottle, I have a few bottles for you to share at your next bottle share, I even have some extra bottles you can have if you would like them. I have never not honored a trade (may have taken a little longer to ship out a box or two) but at the end of the day, shit happens. My apologies.

    BM me with your address and I will send you all the beer you want!

    @jsboots21 @JamesShoemaker @cavedave
    Theortiz01, AdamP, end_27 and 13 others like this.
  19. IPAFan521

    IPAFan521 Savant (460) Illinois Jan 20, 2013

  20. I don't want to rub salt in anyone's wound, and surely the "accused" apologized. But dang...a simple 10 second text would have saved both parties. A lot of these threads are about poor communication.
    JavaNoire, AdamP, mendvicdog and 4 others like this.
  21. Add me to the list of folks that would step up for @IPAFan521 any day of the week.
  22. Sucks that the trade/share didn't happen on schedule, but I think @IPAFan521's response (and his history) speak for themselves. Vanishing for good on an IP trade would be 'bad trader' to me, but just not being able to meet at the arranged time/place and making it up later is just 'life happens'; to me that is only a little worse than missing your targeted shipping date by a day or two.

    I know how much it sucks to be left hanging, but I also know how it feels to be so drained from travelling/the reason you travelled/shit sleep in unfamiliar surroundings etc, where even responding to BMs is more than you can handle that day. (Yes, a text would have worked, but nowhere does it say that @jsboots21 texted @IPAFan521 and was unanswered, only that he BM'd him his number with a request for a text, which still requires going into BM's; see above.)

    All this said, eventual follow through is a prerequisite, but I have no doubt he'll make it happen.
  23. markgugs

    markgugs Champion (980) New Jersey Dec 20, 2006

    I'm glad there's a rational explanation, but I still don't get what prevents, as noted above, ANYone from sending a text message? we're literally talking 5-10 seconds here
    JavaNoire, jrnyc, tommyz and 2 others like this.
  24. Dicers

    Dicers Champion (800) Texas Sep 2, 2012

    Going to chime in for @IPAFan521 here....

    Both myself and my buddy @CTJman got screwed by a @Tertullian007 a long while back. Well while I was in the middle of moving from TX to MA (Yes I'm back in TX now) he told me to meet up with him at his work because he had a "couple of bottles" to make up for the fact that both of us had been screwed. My trade was originally for some Side Project, Prop and Abraxas; CTJman was trading for some backyard rye. Well I send the guy a text and he tells me he's at work and gives me his work address. He proceeded to give me personally a case and a half of beer including a bottle of Prop for FREE. asked nothing in return, luckily I had a freshly poured growler of PsuedoSue I could give him as a gesture for his genorosity. He also asked if I was going to run into CTJman at any point to which I said yes. He then gave me a Doom, Backyard Rye and a few more bottle to give to him.

    Justin is a standup guy and shouldn't be on anyone's no trade list. Mistakes happen and that is what makes the beer community great, we forgive. He didn't steal anyones beer like people WE ALL know or purposefully deceive anyone. I will personally guarantee that this is the exception not the rule.

    EDIT: Yes a text would have helped, but if anyone here can honestly say that a text message was never the last thing on your mind I'd like to shake your hand
    end_27, jshusc, jpsboom and 7 others like this.
  25. Based on what OP said, if @IPAFan521 didn't check his BMs between the conclusion of his convention and passing out at the hotel, he would not have seen the request at all.

    Nowhere does it say that OP texted @IPAf, or that @IPAf had OP's number already. I'm not excusing him from being a no show and not checking his BMs, but that would explain it.
  26. For what it's worth....I read these threads. Sometimes I think man, what a douche for so and so not coming through. I feel bad for the guy who got short changed. Then I take a step back and think, "what about all the crazy things that happen to me when I have good intentions to do something?". We all go through the unexpected in life. I'm sure @IPAFan521 had no intention of any wrong doing to @jsboots21 I've had the pleasure of hanging with @IPAFan521 and I can tell you he is a true stand up guy. A little better communication, between both parties and we wouldn't have this thread. I for one offer my cell phone number off the bat to folks who want to trade. There are days I don't have time to check BA even though I have a smart phone. A text or get this, a phone call would result in less of this. So we will call Justin a tid bit technologically challenged. :D

    Now, @IPAFan521 has sated he will do whatever is necessary to make things right. Let's take that, as well as his trades and his references and chalk this up to a comedy of errors.

    Let's all crack a cold one, cheers the fact that we are all above ground breathing.
  27. ufmj

    ufmj Savant (395) Florida Feb 15, 2013

    It is unfortunate when bad things happen to good people. I understand your frustration, @jsboots21, but I will 100% vouch for @IPAFan521 as one of the most genuine BeerAdvocates on this site. While I agree with @dmbforever and @markgugs that better communication (text/call vs. BM) would deter such misunderstandings, I would venture to say that all of us have lives outside of these forums. Family and work obligations should always take precedence over beer. I am confident that Justin will make good on his end of this trade.
  28. ColdOne

    ColdOne Savant (430) New York Jan 19, 2013

    FTFY
    IPAFan521, Houser, ufmj and 1 other person like this.
  29. Jas45678

    Jas45678 Advocate (555) Michigan May 11, 2013

    The guy is a Blackhawks fan, he must be a dick:rolleyes:
  30. Appreciate that fine sir!!! :D
    IPAFan521 likes this.
  31. @IPAFan521 is the worst, I don't vouch for him.












    Not srs
  32. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator (440) Massachusetts Mar 12, 2005 Staff Member

    ok, this looks good.

    @jsboots21 and @IPAFan521 please provide updates when they're available so i can lock this.

    even if it is resolved amicably, i'll leave it up for reference. all traders need to see how important even seemingly innocuous or flippant communication can be to ensuring a good trade experience.

    communicate. communicate again. and then, when you think you've gone too far, do it again.
  33. Dicers

    Dicers Champion (800) Texas Sep 2, 2012

    Kevin dropping dimes of wisdom thanks for stepping in!
    jdhende likes this.
  34. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator (440) Massachusetts Mar 12, 2005 Staff Member

    occasionally, a good idea or two leaks out of my thick skull. i try to keep it to a minimum though, or i'll lose my reputation for being the worst.

    not sure this site could handle that, seth. :eek:
  35. Dicers

    Dicers Champion (800) Texas Sep 2, 2012

    I believe you spelt that wrong FTFY
    TastyDelicousness and F2brewers like this.
  36. I mean, he does have a reputation for being German style sausage, does he not? He really is the worst though, stole my name (Kevin) and everything...
    TastyDelicousness likes this.
  37. F2brewers

    F2brewers Moderator (440) Massachusetts Mar 12, 2005 Staff Member

    Too many visits to Karl's Sausage Kitchen up in Peabody I guess. Now that they serve German Beers on draught and in bottles though, why not? See how I kept it remotely beer related? ;)

    Now back to your regularly scheduled bad trader thread...
  38. I can vouch for @IPAFan521 also. Perfect trader, great guy, he's a busy guy too. There's been hundreds of times I've gotten caught up in work, glanced down to see I have a text or missed call, tell myself I'll reply when I have more time, and forget about it. Beer is a hobby to some of us and work comes first, I'm sure the convention got the best of him. This guy is the furthest thing from a "bad trader" (even though no beer was exchanged here?).
  39. CTJman

    CTJman Advocate (695) Connecticut Jan 14, 2013

    I'll chime in quick. Of my long list of trades I've only been screwed once as @Dicers said and I would trust @IPAFan521 with any trade any day. Definitely must be a huge misunderstanding. And yes a text would help but even I've had those lack of judgment days on work trips
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