Secondary Headspace

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by jono0101, Oct 19, 2014.

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  1. jono0101

    jono0101 Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 Missouri

    So I have a bit of a problem. Today I racked my imperial stout to secondary, and I only had a 6 gallon better bottle, but thought i would be ok since i had almost 5.5 gallons going into primary. Unfortunately, there was a lot more sediment in the bottom of the bucket than I planned on, and I only ended up with about 4.75 gallons in the better bottle. So my question is, how much of a problem is this? Just doing a search has some mixed opinions, and also a couple possible solutions. Obviously I could just go pick up a smaller better bottle and move the beer to that, but that could potentially introduce a lot more oxygen as well. I also read of using glass marbles to displace the headspace, as well as using CO2 to purge oxygen. What do think is my best option?
     
  2. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    How long are you planning to let it sit? Aging a RIS generally means the beer gets slightly oxidized, which gives the smoother fruit/sherry flavors.

    You could try the marbles, and flush it with co2. But you have it in a better bottle which is going to let in a bit of air anyways, but not enough to cause issues. I'm aging lambic in a better bottle, and it's still on the yeast cake even.

    Do you keg? I'd simply just move it to a purge keg and call it a day.
     
  3. inchrisin

    inchrisin Pooh-Bah (2,013) Sep 25, 2008 Indiana
    Pooh-Bah

    I've wondered if people have ever just added a TBS of sugar into a secondary and called it good enough.
     
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  4. jono0101

    jono0101 Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 Missouri

    The plan was to leave it in there for 6-8 weeks and give it a taste, and decide to either bottle then or keep it going. I don't keg, so I'm thinking I need to go with the marbles, as I don't have the CO2 tank to purge with either.
     
  5. FATC1TY

    FATC1TY Pooh-Bah (2,502) Feb 12, 2012 Georgia
    Pooh-Bah

    I think you might be okay for 6 weeks actually... I wouldn't stress over it.
     
  6. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,934) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah Society

    For an imperial stout, my gut says roll with what you got, 6-8 weeks should not be a problem and a little oxidation might help "age" it quicker. If this was a hoppy beer then hopefully you would not have been doing a secondary anyway :slight_smile:
     
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  7. jono0101

    jono0101 Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 Missouri

    Thanks guys. I thought this was going to be a lot more of a problem. Out of curiosity, what would you think is the longest I would want to let this go, just in case I don't think it's ready at 6-8 weeks?
     
  8. bgjohnston

    bgjohnston Initiate (0) Jan 14, 2009 Connecticut

    With any beer where my OG is over 1.090 or so, it is now routine for me to primary for 6-8 weeks. I went 11 weeks on a Belgian Strong Dark and successfully bottle conditioned without even adding fresh yeast at bottling. This made me cocky, and the next time I had a really big beer sit for 6 weeks, the yeast crapped out on me and never carbonated the bottles. I now make sure I go long enough to have full attenuation, but shoot for bottling soon enough to avoid the hassle of adding more yeast to bottle.

    The lesson I can share from my experiences is if you bulk condition for an extended period, make sure you still have yeast in there that are doing something. You should still condition it as long as you wish, but be aware that you might need to add fresh yeast at bottling if you go well beyond 2 months on a high OG beer.
     
  9. GreenKrusty101

    GreenKrusty101 Initiate (0) Dec 4, 2008 Nevada

    ...or just bottle and condition it, if you are sure it is @ it's FG.
     
  10. HerbMeowing

    HerbMeowing Maven (1,271) Nov 10, 2010 Virginia
    Trader

    IMO ... worrying about something like this is worth it b/c nothing bad ever happens.
     
  11. koopa

    koopa Initiate (0) Apr 20, 2008 New Jersey

    I'm with GreenKrusty101... Just bottle it now and do the conditioning in the bottle.
     
  12. pweis909

    pweis909 Grand Pooh-Bah (3,176) Aug 13, 2005 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Three ideas that I like in this thread:

    (1) Marbles. I never would have thought of this. Brilliant idea. Choose this if your favorite scientist is Archimedes (Call your beer "Eureka!").

    (2) Adding sugar. You can figure out how much sugar you would need via ideal gas law calculations and assumptions about what percent of sugar gets converted to CO2. inchrisin suggested 1 TBS and I am pretty sure that's low. I think you would end up adding enough sugar that it would change the beer some. Still, this would give you an excuse to dust off your intro chem text books and read up more on yeast metabolize. Backing your sugar addition up with equations makes you a badass homebrewer. Chose this if you lean towards the likes of chemistry pioneers like Charles, Boyle, and Dalton. Call your beer "Ideal Imperial Stout

    (3) Bottle now. There will be less total headspace in the bottle and the yeast will consume most or all of the oxygen in the headspace that oxidation should not be a problem (except for leakage through the crown). Call this "We Don't Need No Stinking Secondary." I would choose this one if the beer has not been racked to secondary yet. Usually it's a wasted extra step, IMO.
     
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  13. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,934) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah Society

    What are you hoping to accomplish in the next 6-8 weeks that you are worried might not happen? Why wouldn't it be ready? My initial response was more along the lines of not doing more to your beer than necessary (marbles or racking again).

    A couple of later responses have been to just bottle it now and be done with it. It is hard to argue with this point. So, what are you hoping will happen in the next 6-8 weeks? Or what led you to do a secondary vs. leave it in the primary until you were ready to bottle?
     
  14. HopNuggets

    HopNuggets Initiate (0) Oct 8, 2009 Connecticut

    Unless you are oak aging or dry hopping or adding another ingredient you are better off just bottling it and let it age/condition in the bottle. If it makes you feel better to say you used secondary then let it sit there for a week or two and then bottle.
     
  15. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    One more vote for just bottle it. Conditioning will occur in the bottle just as it would happen in a secondary.

    Cheers!
     
  16. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    Yes this is one of the great debates. Bulk or bottle condition? I am lazy so I let my big beers sit on the yeast for four weeks then bottle condition. I have never had to add yeast to get my bottles to carb.
     
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  17. JackHorzempa

    JackHorzempa Grand Pooh-Bah (3,181) Dec 15, 2005 Pennsylvania
    Pooh-Bah Society

    "Yes this is one of the great debates. Bulk or bottle condition?"

    Jim, have you read any scientific articles on this topic? I have been on the lookout for some technical articles on this topic but so far I have come up empty.

    Cheers!

    Jack
     
  18. jono0101

    jono0101 Initiate (0) Aug 1, 2011 Missouri

    Sorry, that should have been included in my OP, but the beer is sitting on oak in the secondary. I just wasn't sure how much time it would take to get to the extraction that I was looking for. I don't have a lot of experience with doing big beers like this, from what I gather 6-8 weeks should be enough time to get there, but my lack of experience says I need to wait and see.
     
  19. premierpro

    premierpro Savant (1,060) Mar 21, 2009 Michigan

    No I have not. I could be wrong but I think John Palmer recommended that it was better to bulk condition. I have read this somewhere but do not recall any data as to why its better. Take care.
     
  20. wspscott

    wspscott Pooh-Bah (1,934) May 25, 2006 Kentucky
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Any bourbon or just oak? What kind of oak? Chips, cubes, spiral? If it is chips, you are probably looking at about 1 week to get a lot of oak flavor especially if you did not boil them to remove some of the tannin. How did you "prepare" the oak before you added it to the beer?
     
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