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Shangy's hopslam thread

Discussion in 'US - Mid-Atlantic' started by pearljam118, Jan 20, 2013.

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  1. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Hi Jack,
    Great questions. First and foremost, freshness is very important to us. We are consistingly upgrading our infrastructure. And with that we have upgraded our software systems and added additional staff. That topped with a huge increase in craft/specialty beer distribution-with new accounts opening constantly, we feel we have a very "liquid" rotation.

    Our upgraded software system now documents date of production, time of arrival, average days on hand, distribution reports by style and category, just to name a few of the many new reporting capabilities. Further, we are in constant contact with over 250 breweries and importers on a weekly basis. Regarding how we monitor dates on brands with no date coding...we ask, we look, we drink, and finally we determine.

    An lastly, regarding your question about when we know a product should go in to our "discount/clearance" section of our retail floor. There are many variables. With aging beers we generally discount them before they are 30 days to best before. We also discount at times when we need space, want to release an early seasonal item (discount in season brand), and at times we do it just to get consumers to try something new.
    chase2634 likes this.
  2. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Yes we have more!
  3. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    That's exactly right. You haven't realized that Shangy's in Emmaus has such a large metropolis of craft beer lovers. The facts are the facts. Supply, demand, and support.
  4. drtth

    drtth Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Nov 25, 2007

    The allocation policy described for Shangys is generally the allocation practice followed by most importing distributors throughout PA. Both those who have a retail distributorship and those who do not.
    NimaShangy likes this.
  5. I'm scrolling past hopslam this year in favor of NN and Sucks. Twice the value and half the hassel. Enjoy the Hopslam folks more for ya!
    chase2634, beernut and drtth like this.
  6. FEUO

    FEUO Initiate (0) Ontario (Canada) Jul 24, 2012

    Sucks is a different animal, but just as good and better bang for the buck.
    Not only a Brown Shugga Substitute, but a Hopslam Substitute too. ;)
  7. Nima,

    Thank you for taking the time to respond to my query. One of my questions was: when do you decide to place a beer that has a bottled on date on your discount rack? For example, I have a case of beer in my basement (an IPA ) that has a date on the case box of: bottled on 11/27/12. At Shangy’s retail store, when would you decide that this beer should be placed on the discount rack? Is it 3 months after the bottle date? Or is it 6 months after the bottle date?

    Permit me to opine on the topic of Shangy’s retail store allocation of Hopslam. I have no information to doubt that Shangy’s retail is the top seller of Bell’s products. I also have no information to doubt that Shangy’s retail deserves an allocation consistent with “9 x more Bell's beer than the second runner up.” In corporate America they make employees take all sorts of compliance training including ethics. They teach employees that you need to be conscious of even the appearance of a conflict of interest in their ethical dealings. I am confident that you can appreciate that Shangy’s wholesaler allocating more Hopslam by a large margin to Shangy’s retail has the appearance of a conflict of interest. It is not my intention to suggest you change your business practices but hopefully you have an understanding on why beer customers have certain feelings about Hopslam and Shangy’s.

    Cheers!

    Jack
    Ranbot likes this.
  8. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Thanks for the response Jack. To answer your question about the IPA with a late 11/12 bottling date. It depends on the brewery, that particular IPA (hops and alcohol), and the way it was handled and stored. Generally speaking, an IPA brewed in late 11/12 should be perfectly fine today.

    I appreciate your comments about Hopslam allocations. Please remember that Shangy's retail is a customer of Shangy's wholesale. It shouldn't matter, what if Shangy's was owned by a separate entity? Numbers are numbers.
  9. “Generally speaking, an IPA brewed in late 11/12 should be perfectly fine today.” So, would you put that case on discount 5/12/13 (6 months from bottling)?

    “It shouldn't matter, what if Shangy's was owned by a separate entity?” If the wholesaler of Bell’s for Eastern PA was Origlio and they allocated the majority of Hopslam to Shangy’s retail store then there would be no conflict of interest (either via appearance or otherwise).

    “Numbers are numbers.” I can’t dispute that. I think I have been clear in trying to explain to you that there is an appearance of a conflict of interest in Shangy’s wholesaler allocating the lion share of Hopslam to Shangy’s retailer. If this concept is not getting across then either I am a poor communicator or this is a topic you wish to not acknowledge. I will repeat what I posted previously: “It is not my intention to suggest you change your business practices but hopefully you have an understanding on why beer customers have certain feelings about Hopslam and Shangy’s.”

    The bottom line is that as a business owner you can choose to try and understand your customers or you can just operate like you will do things the way you want and the customers be damned. Hopefully you would prefer to try and understand your customers; providing good customer service along with an understanding ear leads to business success (or further business success).

    Cheers!

    Jack
    Ranbot likes this.
  10. If I walk to Shangy's can I get Hopsam since I am not in a car? If so,load up the car and each person walk down the street for a block and then get back into the car. I love this thread, there is a lot going on here.
    NimaShangy likes this.
  11. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Thanks Jack. Point taken. At the end of the day I wish we received 50,000 cases of Hopslam, instead of 1,000.
    We want to be as transparent as possible. We ask retailers to support great breweries. If they do that they receive these very rare seasonals and limited offerings. Our message is is simple to our wholesale customers:

    Support our breweries and they shall do the same.
  12. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Haha. No walkers allowed ;-)

    What's funnier is why no one has wondered why they can't simply come in separately from the same car? Shh...
    SpillyBeers likes this.
  13. confer

    confer Savant (300) Pennsylvania Jan 10, 2007

    I can vouch for this.
    NimaShangy likes this.
  14. Blanco

    Blanco Savant (490) Pennsylvania Oct 11, 2008

    It's obviously a lot easier to get people to mule for you if you drive them there. I could probably easily get my wife and a few friends to drive up there in my car with me and come home with 4 cases. But I'd be SOL if I asked all of them to drive their own cars up there. I suspect that's a lot of the reason for the "one case per car" rule.

    As far as Shangy's retailer being Shangy's wholesale's biggest customer, we'll have to accept Nima's word, but it's not hard to see why a.) people would wonder if that's true and b.) wonder if that's by design. Just based how much Hopslam gets allocated to Shangy's retail (which appears to be hundreds of cases), it would seem hardly anyone in the area is selling Bells throughout the year. Again, it's entirely possible, but I wonder if the retail outlet sells more than anyone else because it never makes it out of the store.
  15. I suspect a big reason why they'd sell more is that they sell by the case. If I walk into a bottle shop I'll get a couple Two Hearteds or a 6er, but if someone walks in there, they're getting a whole case.
  16. Blanco

    Blanco Savant (490) Pennsylvania Oct 11, 2008

    Shangy's customers also include other retail distributors, who sell by the case.
    NimaShangy likes this.
  17. Way to much negativity in this thread. Seems to me Nima has gone out of his way to be as cordial as he can and answer everyone's questions. Given some of the nasty comments, I am surprised he even took the time.
    Why should anyone be surprised Shangy's Retail gets a big allotment of Hopslam from Shangy's Wholesale? Would anyone making that decision do anything differently. If you would then you aren't a very good businessman.
    It's not everyone's god given right to have their favorite beers delivered to their local bottle shop. Whether it's Hopslam or anything else, if you can't find it, drive to where it is, or trade for it. I live in NJ where Bell's, Deschutes, Russian River, Cigar City and many other great breweries are not even distributed. So I make the drive to PA, or trade for what i want. The fact that games may be played between breweries, distributors, wholesalers, or retailers should come as no surprise to any of us. And sometimes the chase can make the catch that much more enjoyable when you finally sit down to enjoy that hard to find beer.
    chase2634 and NimaShangy like this.
  18. fjl77

    fjl77 Aficionado (155) Pennsylvania Jul 10, 2011

    ;)
  19. fjl77

    fjl77 Aficionado (155) Pennsylvania Jul 10, 2011

    If it was one of your allocated sites that was coming up to buy extra cases, would they really want to do that if it was only one per customer? Who would they get to go do it with them? The employees? Would it be worth their the business owners money to pay employees to pile in a van and make a trek there, only to make a few bucks after they would pay for Brew and the employees time? I don't know, it's your business and that's the bottom line. I just feel like i am being punished for carpooling and saving a couple buck in a hard economy(not to mention doing some good for the eviroment), just to get a case of great beer! But, Like you said, there are many ways around this ;) cheers
  20. This popcorn is delicious!
  21. The funny thing is that John has actually come on this site and defended you and your bar before. But I guess you wouldn't know that from your two year hiatus. Instead you come on here and tell him he's no longer welcome (at least that's the impression I got). Kinda pathetic, but I wouldn't expect anything less.
    Blanco likes this.
  22. I can attest to the fairness of Nima's Hopslam allotment system. We have Bells Two Hearted on tap year round and consequently receive our fair share of Hopslam kegs.

    It is also true most breweries/wholesalers determine who supports them throughout the year when it comes time to allocate the one-offs. There simply isn't enough of the rare beers to go around so it's the best way to decide where the beer should go.
  23. beernut

    beernut Savant (330) New Jersey Jun 6, 2008

    Hey look, 130 cars just showed up at once wanting to purchase Hopslam. What should we do?
  24. drtth

    drtth Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Nov 25, 2007

    Reading way too much into it. If Mike was telling John he wasn't welcome at Quotations any more, he'd use 6-10 words, not 6 paragraphs. :)
    victory4me and NimaShangy like this.
  25. You're right, I misinterpreted Mike's last sentence. Sorry Mike. I just feel like John is getting somewhat unfairly picked on as he's taken more of a diplomatic approach.

    Personally, I have no problem with the way Nima wants to run Shangy's. I'm actually a big fan of Shangy's, it's just difficult for me to get up there. I'm pretty happy with his Hop Slam policy. It's pretty much the only way I'm guaranteed to get some if I decide to drive up there.
  26. One thing that EVERYONE can agree on, even in this thread is that John is a stand up man and one of the best on here. John, I still owe you SOMETHING for your Cascade efforts. Just let me know when I can thank you, either buying you a beer or sending along something to you.
  27. jiboo22

    jiboo22 Aficionado (210) New Jersey May 24, 2005

    Blew off work today and drove out to Shangys (About 90 miles)...Got there at 1030, got my case of Hopslam (Bottled 1/23!), case of NN (Bottled 1/8) and a case of Two Hearted.

    I love that place. Fact is, anyone that wants Hopslam can get it if they really want to. All you have to do is arrange your schedule when they get it and get your ass over there. Easier than complaining about it on the internet, lol.
    jrnyc, DrStiffington and NimaShangy like this.
  28. John_M

    John_M Moderator (1,100) Oregon Oct 25, 2003 Staff Member

    Hi Mike! Yes, sorry about that (not stopping by), but especially since getting my most recent promotion/transfer to Morgantown, WV, (hard to say those two things in the same breath, but there it is), it's rare that I make it out to Media. It's a shame (and all the more so during hopslam season, when I always think of you and Quotations).

    To respond to some of your comments...

    "Suppose I am a 24 year old hopslam fan, and need to have more than a case. I ask my parents and my grandmother to get in a car with me so they can each buy a case. Now none of the three could even spell hopslam. Why would Nima care, well maybe one of his weekly customers happens to be traveling the first couple of days Hopslam is released. He arrives four days after Nima puts it on the floor and it is sold out. Why because a customer who may or may not be a regular, buys four cases. None left for the guy who keeps Nima open 52 weeks a year. Consequently, a bar owner who buys 300 dollars a week from Nima is alloted one case, but sends his wait staff up to Shangys and buys four additional cases to sell in his bar, thereby reducing the inventory for the Shangy walk up customer or account that supports Nima to a tune of 2000 dollars a week."

    I hope this doesn't sound too unsympathetic or cruel, but IMHO, that's just life in the big city. Shangys sells beer to everyone, and although the scenario you describe is unfortunate, there's nothing illegal about it. Maybe Nima should set some hopslam aside for his best customers, if he wants to go to the hassle and bother (as apparently some stores do). Also, I think you should give us customers a bit more credit for having at least a little sense. There were a couple of places in Baltimore where I was droppnig a fair amount of dinero, but I didn't expect that was going to get me any special favors. Sure, the owner or cellar master might tell me in advance if there was something special coming up or coming in, but it was still my job to get my butt down there if I wanted to take advantage of it. If someone beat me too it, even if they didn't spend anything like the money I did, I figured that was just my tough luck.

    In any event, I'm not entirely sure what you're suggesting is an apt comparison or analogy. In the hypothetical posed by Nima, the only reason the 130 folks on the bus wouldn't get hopslam, was because they were on the bus. No one suggested that this was a busload of nuns from Akron. Who's to say the folks on this bus weren't all good customers who were droppoing $2000 a week at Shangys. As I understand the policy at Shangys, they would still need to each come in their car individually in order to buy hopslam. THAT's what I object to. The unfair unbehavior you're alluding to... at most the policy at Shangys would make it slightly more inconvenient to engage in that sort of behavior. Fact is, as a number of folks have pointed out on this thread, it's a considerable drive and hassle to get up to Shangys for a lot of us. So why not makes things a bit easier for all concerned by allowing folks to pool their resources and carpool on up there. Like I said, in the long run, wouldn't that leave them with more money to spend at Shangys? That's a good thing, isn't it?

    "As for the bar owners and bottle shops complaining to you abuot their alotment, I think Nima painstakingly address that in his post."

    Then I guess I'm too obtuse too understand him. Nima indicated that retail stores receive their hopslam allocation based on brand loyalty (which I agree is a fair and appropriate way to allocate product). To quote him exactly, "if you are a retailer and support Bell's brands of beer throughout the year, you will receive an allotment of Bell's Hopslam." Not to nitpick Mike, but that could be anything from a bottle to a cargo ship load. The folks I've spokenn to indicated that they felt they had not been adequately rewarded (to use Nima's expression) for being a huge Bell's customer. Of course that could well be just sour grapes, but I've heard the same story from several people, all of whom I thought (or had heard) were big buyers of craft beer and bells products. In any event, while he's not obligated to answer my question, I would be curious to know (still) how some of the larger and more renowned retail outlets in the area fare when it comes to getting hopslam, especialy when compared to what is sold out of Shangys retail. At the end of the day, I'm just curious about all this Mike... Hopslam has become a highly desirable, limited product, and so it's completely understandable that anyone in the supply chain is going to be unhappy and dissatisfied with their particular allocation. I get that, but damn their seems to be an awful lot finger pointing, name calling and downright nastines when it comes Shangys and some of their (alleged) business practices.

    "As far as pricing policy. Nima doesn't need to disclose his pricing policy to anyone." Yep, I completely agree. That doesn't mean I can't ask though, does it? :)

    "If Nima is selling it at a demonstrably higher price than what Westy's is selling it to their on and off premise accounts, than maybe you have a argument."

    If that didn't seem to be the case, based on what I've seen in SEPA and central PA., and if I hadn't been told that by several retail outlet owners and folks here on BA, then I would never have asked the question. Sure, there are a lot of other factors that go into the pricing of product, and certainly SEPA and Philly are expensive places to do business, but... I'm a consumer Mike, and I've checked the price of hopslam both in SEPA and central Pa. I'll simply say that the pricing I've seen at bottle shops, distributors and beer bars seems to be fairly consistent to what I've been told... that the retail price for hopslam in much of SEPA seems to suggest that the owner paid a price that is very close to what a consumer would have to pay for a case in the Shangys retail store, given the normal mark-up at the retail outlet (of course for all I know, that may in fact be just what a lot of these retail owners did... drive up to Shangys and bought additional cases there).

    "are you hopslam posts cut and pasted from years before"

    :) With the purge of the old site threads, there's no way to do that (at least not that I know of). It's a shame, because it would really save a lot of time.

    By the way Mike. I'm a bit concerned that you're starting to mellow a bit in your old age. The initial tone of that first paragraph, it almost sounded as if you were suggesting some sort of entitlement there. Sounded like you were suggesting that folks who have spent a certain amount of money at Shangys are "entitled" to a certain level of customer service that the rest of us peons shouldn't receive. Now you and I both know that it's only us liberals who believe in entitlements. A good republican like yourself, I'm just shaking my head that you would even suggest such a thing. Cheers! :)
    NimaShangy likes this.
  29. John_M

    John_M Moderator (1,100) Oregon Oct 25, 2003 Staff Member

    Thanks for the support, but I didn't get that impression. This is actually the way Mike and I always talk to one another. We don't always agree (hell, I'm a lib and he's a pretty conservative Republican), but I always pay attention to what he has to say. We've had this conversation (or similar ones) many times, and on some things we just agree to disagree. The point I always make is that I just don't understand why there is so much nasitness directed towards Shangys. So many folks (mostly on this site) have indicated they've been lied to, treated unfairly, etc., after a while it becomes very difficult to believe there isn't some underlying basis for it. So that's really the reason why I posted the questions I did.

    Oh yeah... and no about of persuading by Mike is ever going to convince me that Shangys hopslam car pooling policy is just wrong! :)
  30. John_M

    John_M Moderator (1,100) Oregon Oct 25, 2003 Staff Member

    No you don't, but I appreciate the considerate post. :)
  31. Might head up tonight. What's the case price?

    EDIT: Looks like it was already answered. Oops.
  32. THE BAD NEWS: I just bought one of the last 10 cases of Hopslam at Shangy's.


    THE GOOD NEWS: They were able to provide me with a discounted price since the bottling date was 1/23/13 and the beer was clearly past its prime.

    ------------------------------------------------


    You can figure out how much of this to believe. Cheers!
    jiboo22 likes this.
  33. grabbed a case today ...
  34. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

  35. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013


    Wrong and wrong. In stock now and being distributed to accounts across eastern,
    PA this week ;-)
  36. Got my case of Hopslam at Shangy's today (along with a case of Nugget Nectar) after work. No fuss, no muss. Having the first one of 2013 right now.
    NimaShangy likes this.
  37. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013


    John, I really enjoy your posts. However, I think most if not all of your questions and comments have been answered in the tread already. Give Bell's the same support as you would with Sam Adams, Dogfish, and Victory, get more Hopslam. Thank and reward. Our pricing on ALL brands of beer are very aggressive. It has nothing to do with whether or not it is distributed by Shangy's.
  38. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Not true. Westy's Beverge.
  39. NimaShangy

    NimaShangy Zealot (90) Pennsylvania Jan 26, 2013

    Strong words tough guy. Pointless and false, but tough.
    libertysttav likes this.
  40. dfields

    dfields Zealot (95) Pennsylvania Dec 1, 2012

    What's false about it?
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