So, how's beer trading going?

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by Todd, Oct 29, 2012.

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  1. Todd

    Todd Founder (1,700) Colorado Aug 23, 1996 Staff Member Verified Subscriber

    It's been a while since we checked in, but we thought we'd give the last round of changes some time. We did, and now we'd like to hear from you. Some of you have also expressed your concerns to us as recently as last night, so here's your chance to share them with the greater community in attempt to find solutions.

    So, ignoring any future features that might come with the site redesign (meaning something that would require extensive coding), what could we do to make beer trading a better experience for everyone right now?

    Recently, it's been discussed by some that we should:
    • Add a link/sticky to the Bad Traders List.
    • Create a Beer Trading 101 sticky post.
    • Allow replies again. You'll really need to sell us on this one as moderation has been a dream without it, but we're listening.
    Anything else? We're open to any and all serious ideas.

    Thanks in advance,

    yamar68, FUNKPhD, Rutager and 3 others like this.
  2. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    I assume by mentioning the extensive coding you're referring to trader feedback, which is probably the #1 want for me. The first two things you mention would be huge. I've grown accustomed to the "no replies". I could care less on that front.
  3. Todd

    Todd Founder (1,700) Colorado Aug 23, 1996 Staff Member Verified Subscriber

    Correct. It wouldn't make sense for us to do any extensive coding right now as we're in the middle of a site redesign.
  4. robinsmv

    robinsmv Initiate (0) Florida Jun 24, 2010

    I love the idea of adding a sticky for the bad trader list and a beer trading 101 section. I for one would like to see the comments come back for multiple reasons. As it stands right now it is very easy for someone to treat a trade like an auction since it is done purely through private messages. By allowing people to comment in a public arena it will help everyone see what the true intentions of the trader are as well as how many of these trades are actually getting done. I know this isn't the most eloquently worded argument, but Marshal Zhukov is laying siege to a few of my senses right now.
    Pelican5, sliverX, bpgpitt10 and 2 others like this.
  5. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    #1 and #2 would be awesome.

    I personally would like #3 back but begrudgingly agree we are probably better without it. It does seem like there have been more "what is my beer worth" posts in help lately but not sure if that is a reflection of no comments or just the general "winning" nature of trading these days. I think sometimes comments were good but when they got out of control it was ugly.
    2beerdogs and HopsJunkiedotcom like this.
  6. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Understandable. Hoping you guys seriously consider it as part of the redesign.
  7. Todd

    Todd Founder (1,700) Colorado Aug 23, 1996 Staff Member Verified Subscriber

    We are. A feedback system is something I've always wanted.
    gpawned, libbey, HopsMatt and 8 others like this.
  8. Steimie

    Steimie Initiate (0) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    The 1st two items you listed would be great. If replies/comments are allowed, there would need to be some form of moderation, even if it was a couple of different members that did the moderating. As others have said, I just find myself looking at a lot of the FT posts right now and shaking my head at the more ridiculous ones.

    Trader feedback system would be outstanding.
  9. Thank you Todd. Great news for everyone.
  10. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Savant (335) Connecticut Mar 31, 2012

    I personally like the new changes that have been made. I love the fact that people cant add to your personal posting. that being said I have gotten private messages from people 20-25 lines deep explaining to me that this trade is impossible and how I need to offer more while the next message from somebody else is a trader more than willing to complete trade offered. I wish there was a way to report these people. I like beer advocates trade forum way more than any other like it because it offers privacy for both parties which is necessary these days.
    sarro likes this.
  11. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Advocate (605) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    Trading feedback is one for me.
    Would love to see the option of the person putting up a FT to allow feedback in the thread or to not allow feedback in the thread. As well the poster coulld have the ability to shut down the feedback if he so desires. I guess in a way self moderation.
  12. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Savant (335) Connecticut Mar 31, 2012

    but wait... do NOT allow replies again. I repeat DO NOT. it is unnecessary, trades will always get completed no matter what. let the "repliers" go to the other site and shit on each other.
    Retail1LO and Brew33 like this.
  13. Reinstating profile comments could be a temporary feedback system. Not allowing the profile "owner" to comment or delete the post would cut down on what you called "clutter". If someone fulfilled the trade, it'd be easy to leave a couple lines (or less) stating so. If they were late, didnt rectify the mistakes if one were made, or worse case scenario, they were submitted to the bad trader list, it could also be noted on their profile.
  14. InebriatedJoker

    InebriatedJoker Champion (810) Ohio Sep 16, 2010

    Trades have been the same for me with the new system and old ,Thank You awesome BA's (you know who you are).
    I personally enjoy no threadshitting in a ISO: - The trade is between two people and should stay that way ,
    If they want to find out if it's a fair deal they can start a thread in the trading general help ..
    amnesia85 likes this.
  15. Axic10

    Axic10 Advocate (505) New Jersey Mar 15, 2008 Verified

    I think that the comments are a necessary evil. While threads would get bumped and threads way off topic, we had less threads like "ISO: Growler of 3 Hour Tour, FT: 2 Cans of HT" or "ISO: Fou' Foune, FT: 5 bottles of Stone Mint Chocolate Stout". Part of me just wants to see the guys who create those threads called out on this nonsense so that those offers don't keep coming up.

    I would love to see some sort of feedback system as well.
    Pelican5, mattsander, buffs9 and 4 others like this.
  16. quirkzoo

    quirkzoo Initiate (0) Colorado Jul 7, 2011

    I think bringing back comments but default sorting by thread creation time solves both problems. If someone is going to threadshit it doesn't bump the thread so give it a day and the shit dies down and by the time it hits the third page no one even sees it anymore. At the same time it does allow for some measure of feedback when there are factors that should be bright to light regarding a particular offer.
  17. Comments gone is a good thing, but the limit of 3 ISO/FT posts per week should be put back in effect, specifically to curtail 'No posting duplicate posts / bumping,' per Beer Trading Rules & FAQs.
    Retail1LO likes this.
  18. Franch

    Franch Advocate (575) New York Mar 22, 2011

    I like all 3. I hate the threadshitting, but think Axic10 is right. No replies has turned the Beer Trading Discussion forum into the new ISO:FT.
    Pelican5 likes this.
  19. xnicknj

    xnicknj Advocate (730) Pennsylvania May 25, 2009

    the first two items would be great.

    i'm another in support of allowing comments again. i understand you guys dont want to spend hours moderating the people who cant control themselves, but dialogue on a trade thread can be helpful and necessary (ie - questions about bottle size, vintage, etc). also, i dont necessarily think its a bad thing when someone who posts a totally ridiculous offer gets called out on it.
  20. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Although, if you want to allow comments again, MasterSki probably wants more work. Mod him up.
    daysinthewake and Gonzoillini like this.
  21. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Savant (335) Connecticut Mar 31, 2012

    yes but is it really that hard to scroll down to a thread that you would consider? there will always be bogus posts, the question is why do these post get so many views? people complain about these post taking up space but obviously its not a time issue becuase you cane see whats offered before you click on it. if your short on time why waste it on clicking on post youd never consider?
    that trading forum is for trading. THERE IS NO RULE THAT SAYS TRADES HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY ALL BA MEMBERS. If I am posting a trade, I offer what I think is fair. if it does not get complete - by default a person with half a brain would figure out they need to offer more. if you cant offer more than the trade is not completed. there is no need for some DB to stop by and say hey this isnt going to work. that seems like more rubish than the actual posts.
  22. cneville

    cneville Initiate (0) Ohio Sep 16, 2010

    Re: comments, and I know this is more future as it would require coding, but what about a "flagging" system on egregiously bad trades? Say, 15 BAs flag a post, it's gone. Just a thought that removes threadshitting while preventing absurd trade requests.

    Edit: also 1 and 2, fershur.
  23. SeaWatchman

    SeaWatchman Initiate (0) Mar 24, 2012

    Either allow replies or nuke the trade forums all together. No replies make for insanely stupid initial posts.
    gpawned, domtronzero and Gosox8787 like this.
  24. Axic10

    Axic10 Advocate (505) New Jersey Mar 15, 2008 Verified

    It isn't that bad to scroll past them, but as posts like those continue to happen, they will be come the majority and the legitimate offers will be harder to find/stand out. Also if people don't know if the trade didn't get completed it will lead to more of this.

    While I agree that there is not going to be any sort of universal agreement on any trade being fair, the guy who was offering up the Stone Mint Chocolate Stouts not only didn't work out a trade, but he continued to post even more ridiculous trades (adding more to the ISO part and taking away from the FT piece). It seems that when people report these threads that 2-3 more pop up.
  25. black13

    black13 Savant (465) Oregon Apr 11, 2010 Verified

    I like #1 and #2. In the past I thought the idea of feedback was good, but there were too many negative comments and it's easy enough to just scroll past trades you're not interested in.

    An idea that I think would be great is a boxe on the side of each ISO/FT that said: Trade completed. Then when you've made a trade you could just check the box.

    Then people could see what trades actually got completed. Not sure if others like this idea or if it requires a lot of coding, but it would be a quick way to see which trades actually get done.
    sliverX, beerhan and amnesia85 like this.
  26. Axic10

    Axic10 Advocate (505) New Jersey Mar 15, 2008 Verified

    I think that the box idea would work, only if it was set up to have both parties click that it got done. What would stop somebody from checking that they traded their (insert readily available local here) for Dave? Common sense would prevail that it didn't actually happen, but if two (non-linked accounts) agreed that a trade was completed, then it would work.
    cavedave likes this.
  27. Bad trader list sticky would also help the community as a whole to utilize it a bit more. Aside from trader feedback system, this is the single best thing you can do in my mind.

    I also dig black13's idea of "Trade completed" edit to ISO:FT threads. That would help us actually know who to message and who not to, in lieu of comments. Seriously, that's a great idea.
  28. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Was the issue with ordering the ISO:FT by thread creation time vs last reply time because it would have to apply to ALL forums? If not, I would think allowing comments and having ordered by thread creation would lead to slightly less thread shitting as those would cycle off first page and not be seen so out of sight out of mind sort of thing.
    Pelican5 and bryanole27 like this.
  29. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Tennessee Mar 31, 2006

    Asinine trade threads were the ones that got shit on.

    People who spent some time learning first instead of diving in the deep end rarely got threadshit.

    Make people spend a few moths being active on the site before allowing them post the ISO:FT forum.

    Allow replies again.
  30. Axic10

    Axic10 Advocate (505) New Jersey Mar 15, 2008 Verified

    Also with the number of bad trader threads popping up lately, replying to threads might help people who don't do the research of the other part in the trade. If a notoriously bad trader is offering up beer and it is made publicly known that they are on the bad trader list, it will cut down on members getting scammed. I don't that enough people would reference a bad trader list prior to setting up a trade with somebody who would burn them.
    cavedave and thome50 like this.
  31. I'd like to see bad traders have a "bad trader" tag under their user name or something like that and I love being able to respond to be able to respond again.
    UNCCTDawg likes this.
  32. forgetfu

    forgetfu Savant (280) Colorado Jul 27, 2007

    Allow replies but don't allow the replies to bump the thread! This allows for the best of both worlds.

    Part of the problem with replies historically has been that unbalanced threads get lots of discussion, which bumps the threads, and pushes the reasonable, fair trades out. In general, the most replied to threads are the least likely trades to be completed. Yet they are always at the top of the forum. Also, by allowing replies that bump, it encourages people to reply with thinly veiled "bumps" such as supporting their friend or adding a detail or adjusting the trade in some small way.

    However, replies and discussion are also a good thing. Constructive feedback, comments, clarification about beers, release information, etc. There is a lot of valuable community discussion that is useful for the community. By allowing replies, this information can be added to a thread. An open community will always thrive more successfully.
    drewba, OneBeertoRTA, Jeffo and 15 others like this.
  33. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Savant (335) Connecticut Mar 31, 2012

    I call bullshit!!! Because I still get "threadshit mail" for post I make that get completed the same day.
  34. vissai

    vissai Savant (360) California Oct 6, 2010

    Return comments please. People need to gauge what _____ beer is going for these days. It would be a lot more productive. I also noticed trade posts in general declined when commenting was disallowed.
  35. shyhenry

    shyhenry Aficionado (175) Virginia Oct 11, 2010

    Please allow replies to ISO:FT threads.

    Replies allow for a transparent diffusion of information that can be really helpful to members of the community (especially young traders).

    While moderating the trade forums would become a bit more taxing, the benefit to the greater community would be significant. Doing what's best isn't always doing what's easiest.
    badbeer, FTowne, Gosox8787 and 3 others like this.
  36. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Care to share some examples of these threadshit convos and trades that got done despite it?
    badbeer, ckobes, bryanole27 and 7 others like this.
  37. podunkparte

    podunkparte Initiate (0) Washington Nov 14, 2009

    Replies in trade threads are very useful. Reading through lots of them back in the day is a big part of how I learned to judge what beers are relatively comparable value-wise.

    One person's threadshitting is another person's constructive criticism.
  38. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Savant (335) Connecticut Mar 31, 2012

    Better than share an example of previous experience, let's talk about experiences after no replies enacted. I posted a thread in august : FBSx4 for citra x 1. Within an hour some DB from NJ with a hopslam avitar messages me with a two paragrapgh message explaining to me that citra was a 6 bottle per person release and he traded "X,Y, and Z". If I even wanted consideration I needed to offer more. I got 2 more responses to complete, but did not seal due to indifferences in $ amt. 3 or so days later I found an iso looking for what I offered and sealed the deal.
    The whole thing is and get this-
    It's not what somebody else thinks about your post, it's what you and your recipient think. All other opions can be displayed on the other site.
    I'd rather have a million trades I wouldn't consider than offer something that I thought was comparable just to have some DB say "it ain't happening" when it would - or better yet might have if you didn't open up your big mouth.
    If you don't have what poster is looking for (and looking to trade) than you have no business looking at or commenting on posters thread. If poster wanted to know what to offer than he would have posted thread in "help" section.
  39. podunkparte

    podunkparte Initiate (0) Washington Nov 14, 2009

    So what's the difference between said douchebag sending you a BM and someone just commenting on your thread? Absolutely nothing.
  40. amnesia85

    amnesia85 Savant (335) Connecticut Mar 31, 2012

    The difference is simple. What if DB from NJ gummed up the works by replying to my thread for all to see? It was over $4$ amt in the first place. If this guys replies by private message to my clearly equivalent trade, what's going to prevent multiple db's just like him???
    Preventing replies on posts. It's simple. You don't like it, don't click on it - move on. You have it but want more... Negotiate through private message. Just because DBs in NJ throw down on common beers does not mean we all have to!!!! LoL
    Retail1LO likes this.
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