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So when did "extras" become mandatory?!

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by mtbdonn, Jan 2, 2013.

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  1. mtbdonn

    mtbdonn Savant (400) Colorado Dec 15, 2009

    So I recently went through a difficult trade and decided not to include extras and the guy sure let me know it when he received his package with some not-so direct comments.
    But this was the same guy that took his sweet time to answer every message...after he finally accepted the initial trade. In the middle of the trade he decided he wanted something different. This trade had taken close to a month just to get the package out the door. Somewhere in the middle I just wanted it to stop, but I continued to chop through the trade because I was already committed and I worry about my reputation, though small. I doubt I would have ever heard from him again if it weren't for the lack of extras!
    I personally, normally, base my extras on my interaction with the trader and the communication exchanges; were they friendly? responsive? type of trade, good/fair trade or one sided? etc.
    Now I know extras aren't mandatory, but maybe this can serve as a reminder!
    Thoughts?
  2. Extras?!? Those are terms of endearments! Unles specified. Extras are not mandatory. I don't even consider them unless they are implied. I kinda included a Pliny the elder on one of my trades, but it was specified. The trader said he wanted one. I put it in the box and told him to send me somethin awesome in exgange. I looked at his gots, and put in some suggestions, but at $5.50 a bottle I don't really care what he sends me as long as it's not crap. I frequently send handmade coasters, and other smalls with my shipments, but they are NOT guaranteed!
    tacosandbeer, ChanChan and CwrwAmByth like this.
  3. Lutter

    Lutter Advocate (650) Texas Jun 30, 2010

    I always mention when I'm including "extras" in the trade "agreement". Like I'll say "alright, so I'm sending x & y and a few extras" and I'll ask if they want anything specifically they can't get locally or just a general style if they want me to pick. I generally only do trades specific to 1-2 beers though.

    If both parties never spoke about extras, I wouldn't expect 'em.
    Pahn, ABisonEgo, tacosandbeer and 2 others like this.
  4. Extras are not mandatory. That said, I usually include extras, with 1 being the minimum. If the communication is spot on, the person was easy to work with and we've built a rapport (i.e. Potential for future trades) I up the #/value of extras.

    If I don't/can't* send extras, I communicate that as early as possible.

    *Had boxes where extras just wouldn't fit.
  5. its not an extra if he asks for it and you tell him what to send in exchange lol

    extras are half the fun of trading, unless it's explicitly agreed that there won't be extras then you should include them
  6. mtbdonn

    mtbdonn Savant (400) Colorado Dec 15, 2009

    I agree. All my trades have never mentioned "extras". I always considered it as "surprises" which make the trades that much more enjoyable.
    Has anyone else had a similar experience?
    LiquidDegenerate, Pando and misterid like this.
  7. travMI13

    travMI13 Savant (355) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    Let me put it to you this way. If we make a trade, and I send you amazing extras like hard to get seasonals or local brewery only brews, and you either send me a. garbage or b. nothing, then I can assure you one thing: we won't be trading again.

    If you are really concerned about your trading reputation, OP, then pay attention to your extras.
  8. icetrauma

    icetrauma Savant (485) Texas Sep 7, 2004

    So what you are saying is, extra's are more important than what you actually trade for.
  9. Extras are definitely not mandatory.

    Having said that, extras have been the most fun part of trading (aside from making several new friends) & I don't believe I've ever sent out a box without extras.

    Finally.... On the rare occasion that I received a box without extras... I definitely did not say a word. After all, they are not mandatory.
    Seems pretty clear that the OP and his trading partner here just didn't click. It happens.
  10. travMI13

    travMI13 Savant (355) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    Absolutely.

    First and foremost, trading is about sharing beer and spreading beer that you like across the country to other people that can't get it. Treat people like people, like new friends you are sharing great beer with. Don't treat them as if they are lucky to be getting the latest idolized shelf-whale from you.
    Chaney, Bluecane, heatwaves and 3 others like this.
  11. cavedave

    cavedave Champion (930) New York Mar 12, 2009

    I have had folks send me
    1. No extras when I asked if his wants were up to date, and there was no reason for me to ask this except to pick out extras. I have only gotten no extras 2 other times. I have never sent no extras except as agreed beforehand.
    2. Beer wrapped so crappily it was amazing that the beer got here without breaking.
    3. No confirmation that the shipment I sent got there okay, and no thank you for the trade.

    Guess how many of these folks are on my completed trades list? Guess how many of these folks I will never under any circumstances trade with again?
  12. I feel if making a trade, no matter of how good or bad the back and forth is, always tell the other party that you intend not to ship extras. Otherwise, you will be the asshole, because 99% of the time the other party will be sending you extras. To me it sounds like you didn't send extras out of spite.
    DavoleBomb likes this.
  13. tewaris

    tewaris Advocate (595) Minnesota Jul 14, 2009

    I guess AleWatcher/Shogo have said it best in their writeup:

    So I guess just as "mandatory" as tipping when you eat out unless it's a place where not tipping is the norm.
    gpawned, CruisaC, Dope and 3 others like this.
  14. brewbetter

    brewbetter Savant (400) Nauru Jun 2, 2012

    I still don't fully understand the etiquette behind extras. In some of my trades, people ask for specific "extras" and then throw in whatever $4$ off-the-shelf stuff they can find (often old pale-ales). This ends up greatly increasing the cost of trading for absolutely no return. Also, I don't know about how many extras or how much to spend on extras in general. Does it scale up for a trade involving better beers?

    Most traders are happy with extras no matter what, but one time someone got pissed because I sent them an IPA that was a couple months old (in addition to BCBS). After that, I decided no pale-ales will be sent unless they can be guaranteed to be pretty fresh.

    The trend of people requesting specific extras is rough though. It really stops being an extra and starts being an add-on to the trade when one requests specific stuff as an "extra."
    LiquidDegenerate and 2beerdogs like this.
  15. Porkhustle

    Porkhustle Initiate (0) Dec 6, 2012

    I would argue that first and foremost trading is about trading. If extras are implied on both ends, than it makes a difficult process more difficult and more expensive. Also, you've got the added pressure of your extras being a equal or better value than the other trader.

    Some people take this shit too seriously. Beer is beer, it's not hands across the water and circle jerks.
  16. beernut

    beernut Savant (330) New Jersey Jun 6, 2008

    Extras are like tips, not expected, but are nice.
  17. travMI13

    travMI13 Savant (355) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    If you can't afford to tip, then you can't afford to dine out. If you can't afford to send extras, then you can't afford to trade when shipping is involved.
    Smurf2055, gpawned, Bluecane and 9 others like this.
  18. Ive got too many glasses anymore, so Ive been throwing those in every trade I can. Like seriously 2 cupboards full of them. Makes life easy.

    I always assume theres extras in a box, but if there isnt thats perfectly ok.
    gpawned and LiquidDegenerate like this.
  19. I don't trade, but I would say "extras" are just that. EXTRAS. If one misunderstands the word "extra" and views them as an entitlement, then only misunderstanding can arise.
  20. Steimie

    Steimie Initiate (0) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    OP, I would've stopped as soon as you started to feel uncomfortable with your trading partner. As with a lot of things, the best way to approach trading is to go with your gut.

    As far as extras...if I have to explain it to someone, we won't be doing business in the future. Extras are part of the philosophy that says you should send a box you'd be thrilled to get.
  21. This thread makes me glad I don't trade.
    I will stick to online purchasing.
    Blackwells a d France44 don't expect extras
  22. i never knew so many people were anti-extras. i have to assume none of you have ever received an awesome package with great extras
    gpawned, claaark13 and Naterobsnyk4 like this.
  23. I always send extras, it is just trade etiquette in my opinion. I'm not offended when a trader does not send extras, especially if it was not discussed.
    emale619, Pando and 2beerdogs like this.
  24. You did for me! Thanks for the Foothills glass Tim!
  25. jsilva

    jsilva Savant (365) Massachusetts Nov 10, 2009

    How can you win a trade if you send more good beers than you need to....?
    Unless agreed upon i have sent extras in every trade and if i can hit a want i will or a bottle we discussed but didnt agree on or highly rated from their favorite styles. I have gotten a few boxes where people found 6-8 month old ipas and tossed them in so i can pour em out instead of them.
    Ive also not gotten extras when people have said ill toss in some cool extras and didnt send one ohh well.
    Just move to the next one and some of my regular traders have been very generous sending cool things and thats just as fun to open as the main bottles in the trade.
  26. klaybie

    klaybie Savant (275) Illinois Nov 15, 2009

    Extras by definition are something more than what was agreed upon to be traded. However, nearly every trade comes with extras and the one's I've done that did NOT come with them were when the person specifically stated they wouldn't be sending extras. They are pretty much mandatory. Think of it like cuddling after sex, you have gotten the job done, but there is a little more that everyone expects, most times.
    mikecharley, CWinchell and 2beerdogs like this.
  27. merc7186

    merc7186 Savant (345) New York Dec 5, 2010

    Who in the hell gets a box and thinks to themselves "Great, my agreed upon beers have finally arrived"...almost no one. Like me, Id assume that most BAs tear open theirs boxes in anticipation of the extras you received. While I will agree that an EXTRA by definition is exactly that...EXTRA, it is kind of expected at all trades unless previously agreed upon. I do exactly what CaveDave said earlier...I ask to see if your Wants are current, people normally dont ask that question unless they want to bang one of them. If you are a cheap ass or cant fulfill a want, at least send a couple of 12oz bottles of local beers or decent beers that they dont have access to.

    I recently had a trade where where we agreed upon the trade and before the shipping date arrived, I had come across a superior extra but it was 12 bucks and I mentioned it (and the price) if it is was something he was interested in, He enthusiastically wanted it...Great, done. I bought said extra and tossed in a couple of local beers too. In return, I got a bad homebrew and a bomber of a 4.95 bottle. I was pissed but steamed on my own because it was exactly that...an Extra. Although a lot of BA friends agreed that I got dorked on the extra, given the fact that he knew full well that he was getting at least a 13 dollar bottle at least. Point of the story, I will never trade with that person again and my BA friends know to avoid this person....lesson learned.
  28. This thread stresses me out. Im just starting to trade, and am only in the middle of my 2nd trade. I haven't even thought about extras. I was unaware that this was a thing. My first box sent, I didn't even have room for extra bottles. Now I'm worried the other trader thinks I'm a shitbird for not including one. Buuuuuhhhh.....
    halfshell and YogiBeer like this.
  29. maximum12

    maximum12 Advocate (735) Minnesota Jan 21, 2008

    This. End of story.

    No idea who you traded with, but I don't trade with anyone who gives off a bad odor at any time during our communication.

    To directly answer the OP, the guy is an ass. I've only rec'd a handful of boxes over the years without extras. Disappointing? Sure, 'cause I love surprises. A reason to harass your trading partner? Absolutely not. Chalk it up to dealing with a jerk & don't trade with them again, that's all you can/should do.
    Pittsky, 2beerdogs, pschul4 and 3 others like this.
  30. I agree with what people say about extras having the potential to make a trade amazing, but I do consider them to be optional. Personally I have never done extras (except bar mats) in either of my 2 trades so far because a) when i did my first one i had no idea it was a common thing to do, and b) on my second trade I had no more room in my bag (it was in person). I think I will begin to send them as I get to know the people I trade with more though, and as I get more experienced. Also when I get more money. Postage is expensive and so is decent beer.

    In order of importance for me really:
    1) sending the correct beers as agreed - tbh I'd rather offer them a better deal up front in the trade than risk sending stuff they don't want/have already had.
    2) getting it packaged decently and posted promptly
    3) extras
    EyePeeAyBryan and 2beerdogs like this.
  31. misterid

    misterid Savant (270) Wisconsin Apr 3, 2009

    when i set up a trade, i'm trading specifically for what was agreed upon. there is no expectation whatsoever of "extras". if i wanted something "extra" from the trade partners area then i'd just go ahead and include it as part of the swap.

    seems kinda ridiculous to complain about not getting more than what was agreed upon. if you wanted more then just expand the trade to include what you want.

    seems awfully entitled to expect more than what you paid for.. and to bitch when you don't get it.

    when ordering eggs, toast and oj for breakfast i don't expect eggs, toast, hashbrowns a side of bacon, glass of milk and oj.
  32. I am relatively new to the trading culture. I was unaware of the etiquette initially. With that said I now include extras in most cases. I recently did a trade IP and drove two hour round trip for the deal. I thought of adding extras but did not due to some timing etc. He on the other hand really hooked me up with some amazing extras. I add them most the time unless the package is huge.
  33. Agree with what most of you are saying. I've always included extras unless otherwise agreed on. I wouldn't say anything about not recieving extras, but those ones are certainly the less memorable trades. A few BAs have blown me away with generous extras and that always makes for fun competition trying to outdo them on the next round.

    Extras are just the fun factor in a trade. Who doesn't like to have fun??
    franklinn likes this.
  34. cavedave

    cavedave Champion (930) New York Mar 12, 2009

    Do they send them? If not, you will never get a Black Tuesday, or any other crazy ass beer from generous folks, as an extra, like I have. You also will not be getting any surprise boxes from them either.
  35. I think the tipping analogy is the best one.

    Extras are certainly not required, but unless you have really good reason to do so, it's expected. The quality of the extras can depend a lot on the other person - how smooth the trade went, how generous they were with the deal, how likely you are to want to trade with them again, and all sorts of other factors. Bottom line - if you want to earn trading partners and get a good rep, some form of extras are required.

    In your case, you clearly had a rocky and not-so-fun trade experience, so I don't think you were in the wrong. Just like an awful service experience at a restaurant/bar, you may not want to tip.

    The exception to the tipping analogy is when you agree ahead of time on no extras. I've done a couple of trades like this - it seems to happen most often when the ideal shipping containers don't allow for it. i.e. a 2 bottle shipper, or maybe even a 6-bottle shipper.

    At the end of the day, extras are the best part of trading, so it kind of boggles my mind to see people in here talk about not doing them unless it is agreed upon.
  36. No, they just expect a 50% markup on shipping costs instead.

    Not to mention half the beers you end up with as extras are harder to get than anything ever for sale on an online store...
  37. JM03

    JM03 Initiate (0) Ohio Nov 12, 2010

    Extras! We talkin bout extras?! Not a trade. Not a trade. We talkin bout Extras?

    Sorry, had to go off on my favorite Iverson rant.

    I always include extras. I consider those as part of my trade. I judge each trade on the amount/quality of extras that I might send, but there is always something in there.
    JJFoodie, smutty33 and MusicaleMike like this.
  38. fox227

    fox227 Advocate (555) California Nov 19, 2010

    I'm so glad I don't trade! Extras? One bottle (large format) costs quite enough to ship, usually more than the value of the bottle, or same as. I would rather take that money to a great bottle shop.
    SammyJaxxxx likes this.
  39. litheum94

    litheum94 Initiate (0) California Dec 29, 2008

    What's up with the feeling in this thread that if you don't send extras you're either cheap or an asshole? Seems overlly judgmental to me.
  40. I'll typically include a 12oz extra unless it's inconvenient to ship.
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