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Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by mtbdonn, Jan 2, 2013.
Your (justified) confusion stems from the word 'extras' not really being the perfectly fitting word for the act. Really, 'extras' is just a short placeholder for "random beer I want to give you that I think you'll like beyond what we specifically agreed to trade for". Thus when two parties agree upon 'extras' in advance, they are both just making it clear that they would each enjoy some "random beer that the other thinks I will like".
I think you are also in a bit different boat than most. International trading is very expensive and very capacity/weight limited. Thus it makes sense to me that people would try to maximize the specific bottles of the trade and then only worry about extras if there is any room leftover.
There's a fuzzy line. Generally I have no idea what extras might show up in a box, and generally I don't give people any indication what extras I might be sending them. Sometimes there might be a mention of using a 6 or 12 bottle shipper and filling up the remaining space. Sometimes someone might ask me if I've had anything from a particular brewery, or about what breweries from their home state get distributed to Oregon. Rarely, someone tells me they're going to include something specific, which always feels a little odd, but I'm not going to lose sleep over it.
I don't expect extras, but I am always grateful for them. Extras my trading partners have sent have opened my eyes to many breweries and many styles I would not have had the chance to try. The Bruery, Highland Brewing, Duck-Rabbit, just to name a few.. I would have missed out on many great beers if it was not for the generosity of other traders and their extras. I try my best to return the favor.
I send extras and expect none in return.
The extras make me feel good. Sometimes its a few 12oz bottles/cans I think they will appreciate. Sometimes its a couple of bombers worth almost as much as the agreed trade. It all boils down to my gut feeling an how pleasant the trade negotiations have gone. If it's a normal partner, it's going to be a lot of extras. They know you once you've made a few trades and understand the level at which you extra.
I try to stick close to $4$ when negotiating, but it's not to win, it's a guideline, especially for new trading partners. I enjoy when I send a beer and someone messages back saying how awesome and extra is. That's what makes trading fun.
If I get something back, I'm grateful, if not, no big deal.
Exactly. I've only not gotten extras (except when we agree "no extras" beforehand) a couple of times out of 100+ trades. If you don't say you aren't sending any and then don't send any, it's a douche move. It's the same thing as not tipping a waitress in a restaurant. The tip is not mandatory, but it is expected, especially if service was reasonably good.
In your silly scenario who exactly is the waiter?
Always include extras unless "no extras" is agreed upon. It's not surprising to me, however, that the gotta get mine/win my trade generation of beer noobs is clueless about extras.
Don't lump all us noobs together.
as a n00b trader heres my few cents....
I've only done two trades and they were in person trades but I still brought along some extras simply because I enjoy giving people something else that I enjoy and want to pass along that same enjoyment. simple as that.
The noob-bashing reveals a lot more about the basher than the bashed.
"It was always better on BA. Yesterday."
I hate repeating myself, but maybe my wording was off, so I'll give it one more chance.
They are mandatory until you tell the other guy you are not sending anything. Then it's fine, and you avoid a lot of hurt feelings.
If someone doesn't say anything, knowing that the majority of people who trade here will include something, that person is a dick.
Shit glad I told no extras and you still sent one. Way to make it a one way dick street. You're lucky I liked you weird ass Naperville guys.
The best part for me: most of my regular trading partners and I don't even ask about specific beers anymore. We just send boxes back and forth and the entire box is a surprise. We all send good beer and I am just thankful for my super dope trading homies. Never have to worry about anything with them.
Both members of the trade are waiters. You are trying to make the other happy and form a relationship. That is unless you like the hump and dump approach.
fiesty. how's the edit. feel better?
This is the one and ONLY way to win a trade period, exclamation point
if extras r agreed upon first i agree with this. i hate getting lame extras when i throw up some decent things...but it is what it is if i get garbage...im not going to send someone a message whining bout it.
I'm not trying to pick on anybody, but this does solidify a point I've been trying to make for some time now. If "new" members spent some time in the trading forums other than looking at ISO/FT's with starry eyes they might learn a few things about how trading works before they jump in. It's simply for the betterment of our community.
Maybe not necessarily a gotta win mentality, but a serious lack of info when it comes to how trading should be handled.
I hear the masses speak and the picture practically paints itself.
But seriously, when trading with somebody newish (at least to my standards) I try to coach them into how the transactions on here are typically handled. I make them ship first when I feel necessary. I don't refuse to trade with people based on join dates, I just take my own precautions.
And I always discuss extras before closing the deal. Either "I'll toss a couple extras your way," or, "Wanna skip extras this time?"
BTW, the only time I've ever been burned on extras (both sides agreeing to add extras and him not sending any) was when I made the mistake of trading with JoshVandy. But at least I got the agreed-upon beers.
I almost always send extras even if its just local favorites like grainbelt premium. I figure who doesn't want free beer.
my first trade, I was unaware... since then, I always do at least a couple. I don't get butthurt if I don't get any either, but those surprises are the best part of trades to me. I also love when someone doesn't expect them and I get some nice responses afterwards.
I haven't had anyone specify extras though... that to me is part of the trade
That's a fucked up restaurant you visit.
Joking aside, this extras business shouldn't be mandatory, but perhaps discussed, however in the OPs instance, since the trading partner was a douche, I don't see my niceties should be expected.
Be aware that if you're dealing with someone in Canada it costs between $15-$20/PER 750ML bottle in shipping to send to the U.S.A. . Even more in some cases, as I once sent a box of four 750ml's and it cost nearly $85 to ship it no New York. Those 2-3 extras can end up costing a good $50 in shipping charges, so I always warn people that I'm not sending extras.
However, to be totally honest, I have sent out an extra 750ml in some cases (4 bottles of Cantillon instead of the agreed upon 3 in each case) where I found the trade to be a bit in my favour (at least in my mind). Instead of extras I just try and trade for "less" than what I think my beer is worth. I prefer that then having to send a $25-$30 bottle plus an extra $15-$20 shipping in order to include an "extra" on a 3-bottle trade.
(Cliff Notes: Shipping from Canada sucks, other than Cantillon all other beer costs more in shipping than to buy over here)
yeah... the OP's situation is unique... although, I'm inclined to say that if I thought the person was being a douche I would have not finalized the trade
Extras are fun... therefore I send extras.
My 2 cents:
After my last trade I love extras. To say that I got killed with kindness is mild! There were more extras by a mile than the agreed upon bottles (shout out to Crabbicus!). I only feel like a schmuck because I sent extras that I liked, but did not check seekabrew first. Now I'm gonna have to send a surprise box filled with awesome beer just to make up for it!
My point is this: extras are wonderful and show kindness and the passion people have to share the beers we love. If you can't or won't send extras, just say no extras. My feelings won't be hurt. As long as the trade went well and the communication was good, I'd probably trade again. Just be up front about extras. Life is to short to be pissed about beer.
See? There's the point. Even though we said no extras, it felt awesome to throw you one or two anyway.
And do not lump me in with those guys from Naperthrill, with their beady eyes and their stupid glasses and their outrageous beards...
Well okay, Drew's cool. I just hate Mike.
So so true. Received an awesome ninja box from JCrandall, my first partner, the day before New Years. Totally unlooked for....loaded with HF, BCBs, Heady and other goodies. Not gonna get that from an online retailer. Thanks to Jeremiah; Arthur and Clara are gonna join in PNW's gang bang fudge packing party this weekend.
It is interesting to see the general mentality between different levels of traders. It seems that most people who have hit the 50+ trade mark have actually experienced the excitement of extras. The people complaining have never had someone just send them $30 of limited release wants for the hell of it on top of the trade. They've never had a trading partner send them a one-off gueuze for the birth of their daughter. They've never had someone turn into a regular trading partner because they sent the guy his "personal whale" because they wanted to see if they could make a full grown man shit his pants opening a box while his family is in the other room. Or, I suppose, they have been on the receiving end of generosity and they're just an asshole.....it happens.
n00b or vet, the best traders out there have learned to enjoy sending someone good extras because they love helping others enjoy good beer. That's what this is all about behind the limited releases and whale hunting. If this hobby is all about winning and taking advantage of the kindness of others for you, you'll never really experience what it's like to enjoy the full potential that the community has to offer. And for those of you who care that much about it, I promise that you'll get to try more of your whales by sharing some love than you will by becoming a stingy trader.
Ha to me, that IS winning the trade! Nothing better than getting that text or beermail.
holy crap tl;dr.
But to sum it up. Extras are awesome.
I set up a trade and told the guy that I would'nt be sending extras since I was using a 6 bottle shipper and couldnt fit any. That jerk said he was sending some anyways. ahhh hell no! I dismantled another trade that I could put off for a few days and packed it with a couple bottles more than I usually do...just because of his simple action.
In the trading world, you get what you give. I've sent out awesome bottles as extras, and received awesome bottles as extras. Remember the goal of the game...I win, you lose, so feel free to try again.
You know what, Stan. If you want me to wear 37 pieces of flair, like your pretty boy over there, Brian, why don't you just make the minimum 37 pieces of flair?
Yeah those weirdos. I mean you were cool, but seriously Mike and Jeff just need to drop the act. We all know. Jeffs marriage is a sham and he loves his bear.
I just had a very generous BA drop me a King Henry and a Murda'd Out Stout as extras on our first of what looks likes many trades. Keep your communication open, ask questions, crack jokes and try to have fun with the people you trade with, you'll never know what or who you will meet. The best experience I've had within beer advocate was packing his box and including a Black Note, Kuhnhenn BBBW, DH BBPT5 and a few other extras as a way to try to thank him for his generosity. If you haven't had the chance to get many trades under your belt, make sure to seek out an established trader who can show you the ropes and point out a few things you wouldn't think about before its too late, I'm shocked how my times I just read someone say they just completed their first trade and they didn't know about extras. Who are they trading with on their first trade?! To the good traders out there, keep up the good work!
My first trade was with another noob we didn't really know about extras so didn't send any. Since then I always do, and opening the unknown is part of the fun.
I hope you didn't think that I was singling you or anyone else out, before I made my first trade, that was one of the things that was stressed - make your first trade with an experienced trader, that gets you a reliable, knowledgeable trader and safe practice run at getting your feet wet and being able to make a mistake and Learning how to properly correct it. After a few trades you'll definitely know what's what, you certainly seem like you've got things figured out. Cheers!
Didn't think i was being singled out at all and if I was doing it over I most likely would have sought out A vet first. My next few trades were with vets and extras were included.
Extras do not need to be discussed unless it is to specify that you don't want the trade to include them. In fact once you discuss them they are a part of the trade, not extras.
I see you are new, and I see you are opinionated, and that is good. However, opinions are always best after some experience to form them. I have sent/received over 100 boxes. 97% of them I received had extras. Extras are not mandatory, but it is somewhat more than optional. Let's call it obligatory.
I have the experience to form the opinion I am now going to give you, and if you are not a troll, but actually a noob interested in being a trader on this site, I suggest you take it to heart. When you talk about a beer you are sending, even if you call it an extra, it is no longer an extra, it is an agreed upon beer. If you don't send extras in a trade, and don't inform partner you won't be sending extras in a trade, you have broken no rules, but you are a dick for doing it. Period.
I'm not a noob, so don't be condescending. Trading beer is not a holy ground for the beer dieities It's no different than trading 45s or baseball cards.
If extras are not extras then don't call them extras. Why use meaningless words? If they are part iof the trade then they may as well be discussed with a few words like "I'll be sending some extras"
that's not really much of an explanation. i tell my 4 year old "because" is not sufficient. same should apply for adults.
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