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The Averagely Perfect American IPA Project - Poll #22- 15 minute hop quantities

Discussion in 'Homebrewing' started by VikeMan, Feb 19, 2013.

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Choose ONE Quantity for EACH of the three Hops in the 15 Minute Addition

Poll closed Feb 21, 2013.
  1. Simcoe - 0.25 Ounces

    28.9%
  2. Simcoe - 0.5 Ounces

    47.4%
  3. Simcoe - 1 Ounce

    23.7%
  4. Centennial - 0.25 Ounces

    34.0%
  5. Centennial - 0.5 Ounces

    38.1%
  6. Centennial - 1 Ounce

    22.7%
  7. Cascade - 0.25 Ounces

    30.9%
  8. Cascade - 0.5 Ounces

    47.4%
  9. Cascade - 1 Ounce

    14.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    We have determined that Simcoe, Centennial, and Cascade will all be used for the 15 minute addition. Now we'll determine how much of each. In this poll you should click on three checkboxes. One choice for each hop variety. Do not click on more than one choice for each hop. If you want an amount that's not listed for a particular hop, write it in, and don't click a checkbox for that particular hop. Write-ins need to be clear... if I can't understand what you're saying, or if it's not clear that it's a write-in, it will get ignored. I will be computing weighted averages based on the voting, and then rounding to the nearest quarter of an ounce for each hop. I recommend voting in the context of the already determined fact that this addition is one of five flavor/aroma additions.

    For those looking ahead, the next polls will determine the 10 minute addition.

    This poll will be open for 48 hours.

    If you don't know what this thread is about, please see this thread...
    http://beeradvocate.com/community/threads/the-averagely-perfect-american-ipa-project.59552/

    If you have issues with or suggestions for methodologies used in this project, please Beer Mail me.
    Let's keep the threads themselves on topic to the question at hand (not about how you would have asked the question differently). I will not address methodology questions in the forum any more. I'm not going to risk having a thread deleted due to a flame war. If this irks you, please consider not playing.

    The Averagely Perfect American IPA Recipe so far...
    5 Gallons
    Target ABV: 6.5%
    Target OG: 1.062
    Target FG: 1.012
    Apparent Attenuation: 81%
    Recommended Mash Temp: 151F
    64 IBUs (per Tinseth Calc)

    Grain Bill:
    Two-Row Brewer's Malt (92%)
    Crystal 40 (5%)
    Carapils (3%)

    Bittering Hop:
    Magnum

    Flavor/Aroma Hops:
    Simcoe
    Centennial
    Cascade

    Flavor/Aroma Hop Schedule:
    15 minutes - Simcoe, Centennial, Cascade (qtys TBD)
    10 minutes
    5 minutes
    FO/Whirlpool/Stand
    Dry Hop

    Yeast:
    Wyeast 1056/WLP001/US-05
  2. mountsnow1010

    mountsnow1010 Savant (360) Vermont Jan 23, 2009

    A half of each.
  3. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Champion (790) Texas May 21, 2010

    I voted heavy on the cascade. Probably for all additions, TBH, but we'll take the polls as they come. I just love cascade hops. :D
    mnstorm99 likes this.
  4. Ejayz

    Ejayz Savant (270) Iowa May 15, 2011

    This is the best thread ever!
  5. Treb0R

    Treb0R Savant (290) Oregon Dec 12, 2012

    Went with 1/4 oz. each at 15 min. because I was basing it on an attempt to make the recipe myself.

    This schedule would've given you 64 IBUs and a ton of hop aroma. 7 oz. total hops sounds pretty good for 5 gallons AIPA at 1.062 OG.

    boil 60 min 3/4 oz. Magnum pellet 14%
    boil 15 min 3/4 oz. Centennial pellet 10%
    boil 10 min 3/4 oz. Cascade pellet 6.8%
    boil 5 min 3/4 oz. Simcoe pellet 12.3%
    post-boil aroma steep 3/4 oz. Centennial pellet
    post-boil aroma steep 3/4 oz. Simcoe pellet
    dryhop 7 days 1/2 oz. Cascade pellet
    dryhop 7 days 1/2 oz. Centennial pellet
    dryhop 7 days 1-1/2 oz. Simcoe pellet
  6. Hmm, I wasn't expecting to start specifying actual weights per addition yet. What's our target % IBUs for the bittering addition vs. the flavor additions? Do we want this to be a balanced everyman's IPA, a bitter bomb, an aroma bomb? I think we need a hop philosophy first...
  7. LAWbrewing

    LAWbrewing Zealot (80) Wisconsin Nov 23, 2010

    I think it is what you want, michaeltrego. Vikeman is going plurality and participants are voting based on their ideal IPA. Correct? So, whatever your target IBUs for both additions and thoughts on balance v. bomb are only what is valid here.
  8. All said and done, is there a practical way for all of us willing to brew this monster and swap bottles?

    Or is that a lot of work?
  9. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    I went heavier on cascade for this additional well.
  10. Yes, I realize the same can be accomplished from the bottoms up approach with individual amounts. I was just thinking that collective input on the overall profile first could be beneficial.
  11. wspscott

    wspscott Savant (490) Kentucky May 25, 2006

    1/2 ounce each, less for me to screw up
  12. mattbk

    mattbk Savant (390) New York Dec 12, 2011

    anyone else starting to worry we may not hit our IBU target? or, will seriously need to cut down on other hop additions to make it? based on:

    Cascade 5.5%, 0.5 oz
    Centennial 10%, 0.5 oz
    Simcoe 13%, 0.5 oz

    youve got 26.3 IBUs or 41% of the total required IBUs from this addition alone.

    consider bumping up cascades at this addition and lowering the higher alpha hops. we can up those hops at later additions with less of an IBU penalty - and keep all the great essential oils from the cents and the simcoe, which will be further boiled off at this addition...

    my $0.02.
  13. Treb0R

    Treb0R Savant (290) Oregon Dec 12, 2012

    I thought about that too, but it could've been worse. I figured everyone would have picked the max amount Vikeman allowed for every time slot (60-15-10-5-0-DH). Even with the way things are going, it appears the early Magnum addition is only going to be 0.25 to 0.50 ounces.
  14. Naugled

    Naugled Savant (455) New York Sep 25, 2007

    I was going to kick off a thread to see who, of the people that plan to brew this, are interested in a trade... But if anyone else is interested in organizing a swap, have at it..

    If I don't see a thread soon, I'll through in my hat.
  15. NiceFly

    NiceFly Savant (375) Tajikistan Dec 22, 2011

    Those that did not vote for all the additions probably saw it coming. Noobs want MOAR HOPS
    mattbk likes this.
  16. This noob did not think about the IBU when he voted. Is it too late to change my vote?
  17. pweis909

    pweis909 Advocate (705) Wisconsin Aug 13, 2005

    It ought to be OK. We never said how many IBUs are derived from that magnum bittering addition, did we? I see that as the make-up bittering addition to account for leftover IBUs that the late additions don't cover. It could amount to a token pellet (assuming we vote for pellets!). Plus hopheads can always vote to amp up the flame out additions, plus dry hop, which don't calculate to any IBUs (but probably contribute something to bitterness).
  18. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Champion (790) Texas May 21, 2010

    I did think about the amounts and AA% when I made my vote, which is why I voted for 0.25 simcoe, 0.25 centennial, and 0.5 cascade at this addition. I haven't plugged into beersmith yet but I will try to get at that today and see where we're at (at least for my own uses).

    Also, lots of different sources of hops means people will have different hop AA% and will need to adjust accordingly. My magnum hops are 14% AA, for instance (source, hopsdirect.com, recent order). Yours might be more or less. Everyone will need to make some adjustments for their system and ingredient specifications if they want to hit the targets.

    I've generally done an ounce of (whatever) at the 15 minute mark, but sometimes more than an ounce at later points in the boil.
  19. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Advocate (595) Colorado Jan 20, 2012

    This is going to equate to some jacked up IBU's I think. By using all three in each addition I feel like the IBU's we are going to wind up hitting here are going to be above and beyond our target IBU's even without the bittering addition.
  20. cmac1705

    cmac1705 Aficionado (245) Florida Apr 30, 2010

    I feel like this type of poll should be pushed back. We should decide what varieties we use at each addition first. Having said that, I'm very likely to take liberties on this portion of the recipe, so I guess I'm not too concerned.
  21. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Champion (790) Texas May 21, 2010

    I'm playing with numbers in beersmith now. I think a few modifications will be in order, and that these polls will result in guidelines that we will all work into our systems.

    It's looking like there won't be a very large bittering charge tho, using the recipe as designed in these polls.
  22. SFACRKnight

    SFACRKnight Advocate (595) Colorado Jan 20, 2012

    Just plugged some numbers into my brew program, it seems I spoke too soon. .25 of each of the three for this one.
  23. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    Trying to address several comments at once...

    If this ends up being a hop bursted IPA, it'll be because that's what got voted for. And the 60 minute addition will be the IBU balancer (as it would have been regardless). If it is so heavily bursted that the flavor/aroma additions alone take us above 65 Tinseth IBUs (possible, but unlikely), I guess we'll vote to decide on what addition(s) to cut back, and then do a redo on that one(s). Or some other cunning plan involving a vote(s).

    Just a friendly reminder...
    (Though from a Tinseth IBU perspective, FO and DH won't count.)
    meatballj626j and pweis909 like this.
  24. Treb0R

    Treb0R Savant (290) Oregon Dec 12, 2012

    Vikeman is right. It is what it is. Majority rules so deal with it.

    Not to be a Debbie Downer, or to intentionally direct this comment to anyone, but I do believe that "people are stupid" and "a person is smart". So I wouldn't say this little democratic experiment is going to yield a tastier IPA compared to an arsenal of individual recipes created by a single veteran IPA brewer.

    It is still interesting though and I for one am curious to hear about the final results.
  25. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    I would only be annoyed if 1 ounce of each variety was winning the vote, my fear is that we may be more likely to see that in the later additions.
  26. pweis909

    pweis909 Advocate (705) Wisconsin Aug 13, 2005

    Explain why this is necessarily a bad thing. You might be able to change my vote on future additions.
  27. mnstorm99

    mnstorm99 Advocate (535) Minnesota May 11, 2007

    Not sure if I think it is a bad thing later, we'll see how the votes come out. But, I would not have been a fan if there ended up three ounces total for the 15 minute addition. I think those quantities might work with the FO and/or dry hop addition, but it would still be much higher than my typical IPA's.
  28. AlCaponeJunior

    AlCaponeJunior Champion (790) Texas May 21, 2010

    too much hops at 15 minutes might limit other additions by adding too many IBUs at 15
  29. pweis909

    pweis909 Advocate (705) Wisconsin Aug 13, 2005

    I voted for .25 oz each in this addition, but come flame out, I'm probably voting big.
    Naugled likes this.
  30. mountsnow1010

    mountsnow1010 Savant (360) Vermont Jan 23, 2009

    Maybe we will end up with enough IBUs from this and subsequent additions to nix the Magnum entirely and only have a fifteen minute boil ;)
  31. VikeMan

    VikeMan Advocate (740) Pennsylvania Jul 12, 2009

    Alrighty. The weighted, rounded qty for each of the three hops is 0.5 oz.

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