The IPA vs. Pale Ale line

Discussion in 'Beer Talk' started by BeerNDoggerel, Dec 17, 2012.

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  1. BeerNDoggerel

    BeerNDoggerel Initiate (0) Mar 13, 2011 Illinois

    Do you ever find yourself re-categorizing beers?

    I hate to admit that the official category of a beer matters to me, but sometimes it does...

    I recently purchased a case of IPAs that are disappointing when I think of them as IPAs, but if I drink them as Pale Ales, they're awesome. (In this instance, it's Port City Monumental IPA.) Does this happen to anyone else?
     
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  2. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    Zombie Dust comes to mind. It absolutely puts most pale ales to shame in the hoppiness category. It should absolutely be recategorized as an IPA.

    That said, this sort of discussion will eventually become the same endless discussion that everyone has with music and subgenres (particularly in metal and electronica). Of course, it is human nature to want to categorize and thus understand things, so conversations of this nature, for better or for worse, will always be a highly debated topic.
     
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  3. BeerNDoggerel

    BeerNDoggerel Initiate (0) Mar 13, 2011 Illinois

    I think the same thing with Zombie Dust, but then mess myself up thinking that it wouldn't be as outstanding if I started thinking of it as an IPA. Pretty superficial on my part...
     
  4. THANAT0PSIS

    THANAT0PSIS Pooh-Bah (2,201) Aug 3, 2010 Wisconsin
    Pooh-Bah

    For me, it would still be as amazing: I can't think of many IPAs I'd prefer. I also don't care too much about categorization. It's about the taste. Sure, I judge based on adherence to style, but only to a degree. The rest of the review is all taste.
     
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  5. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,301) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Pure opinion as are all style guidelines. All IPAs are of course by definition Pale Ales (the clue lies in the -PA bit) , where you add the I prefix is arbitrary. There's a huge precedent for this of course as they were called Pale Ales for their first fifty years of existence before the name IPA first appeared.To the end certain brewers such as Bass continued to keep calling them simply Pale Ales , which they were.
    In other words it doesn't matter at all.
     
  6. raynmoon

    raynmoon Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2011 Colorado

    This is a nice little post. Zombie Dust is the first thing that comes to mind. Mis-categorizing beers is a slight problem we see today. If a brewing company put out a chocolate stout and lied about its alcohol content, claiming it to be some huge imperial stout, we'd all think "wow, the alcohol is hidden so well, A+++"

    So it is tough. I do sometimes find myself drinking a beer that is not quite within its style, which definitely hinders the ratings on this site. Oh well.
     
  7. VitoFerrante

    VitoFerrante Initiate (0) Sep 11, 2012 Pennsylvania

    I love this debate. I say, leave it to the certified beer judges, not the breweries to definitively comment on style. Breweries can label it whatever they want because it is their product. If you blindfolded a beer judge, Zombie Dust would not be considered an APA. At the end of the day, it comes down to taste, not what the label says. They could label ZD a stout for all I care!
     
  8. PapaGoose03

    PapaGoose03 Grand Pooh-Bah (5,291) May 30, 2005 Michigan
    Pooh-Bah Society

    But the beer judges have to grade the beer to the style category in which is is entered in the competition, and the brewer chooses the category in which it is entered. Maybe this process gives an unfair advantage like in the case of ZD (just to continue with the same example used in this thread) because that beer seems to violate the boundary between the PA and IPA if you leave that judgement up to us BAs.
     
  9. pschul4

    pschul4 Initiate (0) Jan 7, 2011 Illinois

    Dogfish head keeps calling that 18% barleywine an IPA and that 18% sewage water a stout...
     
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  10. Schwantz

    Schwantz Initiate (0) Dec 16, 2012 Florida

    Zombie Dust separates itself from any other pale I've enjoyed... Until you side by side it with CCB Jai Alai, at which point you can clearly tell the APA from the IPA.
     
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  11. cerp66

    cerp66 Initiate (0) Sep 20, 2007 South Carolina

    Dale's Pale Ale is definitely in the IPA category.
     
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  12. tjensen3618

    tjensen3618 Savant (1,225) Mar 23, 2008 California

    If I feel like an IPA, Dale's Pale Ale is certainly a consideration alongside Stone IPA. ZD would be as well, if I could get it regularly.

    When I want a Pale Ale, Longhammer IPA is in consideration alongside SNPA and FW Pale 31.

    Longhammer's rating would jump 10+ points if it were labeled Longhammer Pale Ale.
     
  13. fuzzylogic

    fuzzylogic Initiate (0) Nov 16, 2008 Pennsylvania

    I like Lagunitas New Dogtown Pale Ale as an "IPA" better than their standard India Pale Ale
     
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  14. fox227

    fox227 Initiate (0) Nov 19, 2010 California

    I'm thinking that the trend is for brewers to call their lower ABV IPAs, APAs, as to differentiate a 7% from a 5%, even if the 5% turns out to be hoppier. I also find that so many DIPAs are less hoppy than regular IPAs. Oh screw it! I better just drink them all and sort it out later.
     
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  15. jbertsch

    jbertsch Pooh-Bah (2,710) Dec 14, 2008 Massachusetts
    Pooh-Bah Society Trader

    Haven't had ZD yet, but I often ask myself the same question when I drink one of Hill Farmstead's pale ales because I find them more desirable than so many other IPAs. I think they/Shaun generally use ABV as a rule to decide whether something of theirs is labeled as an pale ale or IPA.

    By that rule, I'd consider something like Lagunitas Daytime IPA a delicious pale ale. But in the end, I don't debate it too much. I just like to know what the brewer considers a beer to be so that I have a general guideline as to what other beers I should compare it to.
     
  16. otispdriftwood

    otispdriftwood Initiate (0) Dec 9, 2011 Colorado

    Although Pales and IPAs are two of my favorite styles of beer, I generally put the beer I drink into two and only two categories. The ones I like and the ones I don't like. This makes things simple for me.
     
  17. CA_Infidel2o9

    CA_Infidel2o9 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2012

    Literally just happened to me yesterday w/ Tank 7. Awesomely hoppy Saison, but if was labeled a Belgian PA/IPA, i think the score i gave it would be a little lower.

    Sweet 16, Old Viscosity... LIERS!!!
     
  18. CA_Infidel2o9

    CA_Infidel2o9 Initiate (0) Dec 1, 2012

    How so? We're talking about your perception & if the category a said beer is placed in effects it. When I drink a PA, i expect some hoppyness. When i drink an IPA, i expect it to be very hoppy. Thus, when i get a super hoppy PA, i'm surprised and will most likely like it more and in turn, most likely rate it higher. I've never had Zombie Dust, but i'm sure this type of thinking, has something to do w/ why ppl love it so much.
     
  19. raynmoon

    raynmoon Initiate (0) Aug 13, 2011 Colorado

    I said those very same words in my review for that beer. They should just switch it and see if anybody notices.
     
  20. marquis

    marquis Pooh-Bah (2,301) Nov 20, 2005 England
    Pooh-Bah Society

    Because peoples expectations are different. Beer exists along a spectrum or even series of spectra and Pale Ale varies from not particularly hoppy to very hoppy with every shade in between.At which point you decide to term it an IPA is a matter of interpretation. There is no supreme court of beer , no authority to say exactly what is what , it's a subjective matter.
    I also realise that different people have different taste thresholds.Early on in my tasting course we were given solutions of bittering agents in water, all of different strengths and it became clear that some people were much more sensitive to certain chemicals than others.So your PA is my IPA and why is that a problem?
    I've also tasted beers of different stated IBU and it's clear that other factors come in to play at the same time; malt profile, attenuation, astringency. A beer with 40 IBU can taste incredibly bitter , more so than another beer of significantly higher IBUs.
    Part of the joy of drinking beer is the journey of discovery. Like a drive in the country it's sometimes more fun to ignore the map and just go wherever looks interesting.
     
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