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The White Whale List - 2012

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by AgentZero, Dec 24, 2012.

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  1. rmaste6282

    rmaste6282 Savant (380) California Apr 30, 2009

  2. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

  3. rmaste6282

    rmaste6282 Savant (380) California Apr 30, 2009

    In the first line of AgentZero's thread, he mentions SpeedwayJim, yet SpeedwayJim also has a White Whale list. Which one am I supposed to believe to be true? Last year (before these were updated), there was only one list to reference.
     
  4. stupac2

    stupac2 Initiate (0) California Feb 22, 2011

    o_O
     
  5. Arbitrator

    Arbitrator Initiate (0) California Nov 26, 2008

    Dude, it's just a list that reflects the taste / desirability preferences of 2-3 tasting groups. There's no "absolute" and none of these lists are "right."
     
    themind, AgentZero, ChrisPro and 6 others like this.
  6. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    the one thing I suggest is to expand outside of Europe and US. Kind of an elitist list really. Then again if not in those two parts of the world then it does not matter really using BA thinking
     
  7. What non-Euro or US beers would you put on the list?
     
  8. Also, why is 50/50's Old Fitz on the list? Is it in reference to the 2007 release?
     
  9. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Champion (895) Illinois Aug 18, 2008

  10. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    stuff from NZ or Australia that only a few have had.
     
  11. SpeedwayJim

    SpeedwayJim Advocate (700) New York Jun 19, 2009

    This. I would refer to the list references by AgentZero as its a compilation of opinion by me and a ton of people who know a lot more about rare beers than I do.
     
  12. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Champion (895) Illinois Aug 18, 2008

    You need to give yourself more credit :)
     
    cosmicevan and GrumpyOldTroll like this.
  13. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Because no one would rank them highly because so few people desire those beers.
     
    GrumpyOldTroll likes this.
  14. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Advocate (705) Illinois Mar 17, 2009

    Yes, it's referencing the old 2007 bottling...I think Mike needs to edit that.

    +1 Exactly, how could anything that is unknown and has very few ratings be on a list with all the top/hyped beers of all-time? Just doesn't make any sense. We aren't ignoring any beer or location. If it has very little popularity/news/ratings, how is any suppose to know about it?
     
  15. nanobrew

    nanobrew Initiate (0) California Dec 31, 2008

    I will ask again...

     
  16. evilc

    evilc Initiate (0) California Jan 27, 2012

    Canada doesn't even have anything?
     
  17. HenrikO

    HenrikO Aficionado (205) Sweden Jun 19, 2011

    Dude, the one which has the most of _your cellar beers_ is obviously the one to believe. Duh.
     
  18. rmaste6282

    rmaste6282 Savant (380) California Apr 30, 2009

    Yeah, that's the one I want to believe.
     
  19. cetherid

    cetherid Savant (395) Indiana Aug 23, 2010

    Yet Eszett "comes in" at #45....is that beer the outlier? A few months old......not many reviews....few have even tasted in......not much noise about this beer other than those from across the pond and those involved in this list.
     
  20. lurchingbeast

    lurchingbeast Initiate (0) Illinois Feb 19, 2009

    Try trading for it.....
     
    GrumpyOldTroll and futura123 like this.
  21. mulder1010

    mulder1010 Initiate (0) Australia Aug 29, 2008

    http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/12897/45919

    First batch should be on the White whale list.
    Granted, Australia is 10 years behind the US in brewing and NZ is more known for IPA's right now.
    I suppose being geographically isolated does hurt here and there. That and 10 BA's who review here do not help either
     
  22. Thorpe429

    Thorpe429 Champion (895) Illinois Aug 18, 2008

    Why would this be on the White Whales list? Honestly, I've never heard of this beer (or the brewery, for that matter), so I am extremely skeptical that it would be even close to one of the 100-150 most desirable beers, active or retired.

    Of course there is going to be a geographic bias to this. Most BAs are in the United States, and the vast majority of very highly-regarded breweries are either in the US or Belgium. Thus, the list is highly geographically focused.

    The list is subjective and based on what people actually desire, not what they should desire, or what the best beers are. However, even though we tried to be objective, it's hard to see the appeal of a beer that really has no name and, objectively speaking, doesn't have the sort of reviews -- on this site or others -- that would suggest that it would be as desirable as the beers on the list we're discussing.*

    * I know you said the first batch, so maybe the view of that is different, but when the overall level of the beer is fairly low (in comparison, of course), that's going to drag down the entire reputation.
     
    lurchingbeast likes this.
  23. I'll homer it up for the semi-local brewery and say that I'm somewhat surprised Coast Old Nuptial didn't appear anywhere on the list.
     
  24. AgentZero

    AgentZero Advocate (565) Illinois Jul 19, 2009

    It goes on the White Whale list if people want it to be. The is list is based entirely on perception and subjective opinion. I admit to knowing nothing about this beer other than what I can glean from the reviews and ratings (which can't be said to blow me away), but the fact I know nothing about it at all would prevent me from ever ranking it.
     
  25. AgentZero

    AgentZero Advocate (565) Illinois Jul 19, 2009

    Will add it to the list for next year.
     
  26. AgentZero

    AgentZero Advocate (565) Illinois Jul 19, 2009

    The list was inspired by SpeedwayJim's list and created both with his blessing and participation. As far as which one to believe, they are both 100% right.
     
  27. themind

    themind Savant (475) New Jersey Mar 14, 2011

    A question remains is a " Whale " a hard to get brew or a hard to get legendary brew. For example Hair of the Dog Dave is a 95 rated by BA members. Also the second Cantillon Soleil de Minuit is a 94 rated by BA members. To me it seems a " Whale " should be a hard to get, legendary beer not just a hard to find beer. IMO
     
  28. Sean9689

    Sean9689 Advocate (705) Illinois Mar 17, 2009

    A whale is whatever you think a whale is. There's no one definition and everyone has a different opinion...this is just the complied thoughts of several tasting groups who have experience with a lot of these beers over many years.
     
  29. readbaron

    readbaron Savant (345) Illinois May 12, 2010

    ? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. Are you saying it's not a whale unless it has a BA score of 100? Pretty sure getting a BA score of 100 requires a significant number of reviews, so that will never happen. You'll notice that the average rating of Soleil is rather high - which is really what you should pay attention to in the first place.
     
  30. themind

    themind Savant (475) New Jersey Mar 14, 2011

    Ok just stating my opinion, thats what we do here right? like the guys that did the review...an opinion.
     
  31. themind

    themind Savant (475) New Jersey Mar 14, 2011

    I respect your opinion, I am simply stating my opinion....nothing more.
     
  32. you aren't really stating an opinion though, you're just sort of saying stuff
     
    shyhenry, Bluecane, JulianB and 4 others like this.
  33. themind

    themind Savant (475) New Jersey Mar 14, 2011

    I will now exit this conversation since I did say something and now your just trolling me. You can have the last word.
     
  34. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    I will ask directly....I understand what you are saying but what *whales* are you referring to that aren't legendarily good? I look down the list and don't see any that come to mind as universally horrible or anything. I am confuse.
     
    Michigan likes this.
  35. BAstoutsNsours

    BAstoutsNsours Initiate (0) Florida Sep 21, 2012

    You make my head hurt, bro. I need a beer...
     
    MasterCraft and Michigan like this.
  36. AgentZero

    AgentZero Advocate (565) Illinois Jul 19, 2009

    To add to what Sean said, there is no proper and objective definition of a "whale." Truth is, one man's whale may be another man's minnow (props to who said that first, wasn't me). The purpose of making this list was to try to get a collective read on what BAs as a group believe a whale is. A whale is only a whale if you think it is. The list is truly a list of perception, which was then averaged out to try to give a more normalized list of whales. Some are hard to get, some are legendarily good, some are a combination.

    Truth is, everyone who participated in making this list said "To me, it seems a 'Whale' should be...", and that was how they made the list. They were given no other instructions BUT a whale is what you think it is and that's how you should do the rankings. If you look over what each person did, you will see a lot of variation.

    Again, the list is only as right as you want it to be. Regardless of that, it was a lot of fun, and I think a useful tool for keeping older and legendary beers in the collective mindset and helping newer BAs to find out about "Whales" that they would otherwise never hear about or encounter.
     
    themind, GrumpyOldTroll and JulianB like this.
  37. Michigan

    Michigan Initiate (0) Michigan Oct 24, 2012

    When is a "whale" retired? Once we hunt it to extinction? I imagine I could probably count the number of Soliel de Minuit or Spuyten Duyvil bottles without having to use my toes.

    So when is it turned from a "white whale" to a "ghost whale"?
     
  38. drgarage

    drgarage Initiate (0) California Aug 19, 2008

    What he is saying is that the Pinot Noir-aged variant of Supplication should be ahead of Dave. And he's clearly right.
     
    domtronzero and themind like this.
  39. BAstoutsNsours

    BAstoutsNsours Initiate (0) Florida Sep 21, 2012

    How about the PvW '07 BCBS?
     
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