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Three Floyds: "Regarding Second Market Dark Lord Sales"

Discussion in 'US - Great Lakes' started by averagejake872, May 1, 2012.

  1. foobula

    foobula Savant (340) Illinois Dec 14, 2009

    Well, at least FFF is on the case.

    @3floyds: @cashlion can you tell us where?

    7:22 PM - 2 May 12 via Twitter for Android
     
  2. MaxSpang

    MaxSpang Advocate (515) Ohio Jan 28, 2011

    I wouldn't mind seeing FFF publicly out the bar that is selling Dark Lord bottles.
     
  3. rt1976

    rt1976 Aficionado (180) Indiana Apr 29, 2009

    Does alcohol sold in an Indiana or Illinois bar need to be purchased through a distributor?
     
  4. MasterSki

    MasterSki Site Editor (1,025) Ontario (Canada) Dec 25, 2006 Staff Member

    Yes. The only place it would be legal to resell Dark Lord in the US is in Washington DC. I wouldn't be surprised if it shows up on Churchkey's menu at some point.
     
  5. rt1976

    rt1976 Aficionado (180) Indiana Apr 29, 2009

    For some reason I thought they could buy it direct, just not through a liquor store. I thought I've seen local Indy breweries offloading trucks at local restaurants.
     
  6. Dark Lord, yes -- but in Illinois, at least, there is the small brewery/self-distribution example. Like Pipeworks -- they are allowed to sell their beer direct to stores (and I'm assuming bars, down the road). Generally, laws are going to vary (widely) by state.
     
  7. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Are you serious? What kinda school is Purdue? Do they not teach anything? An IE from a top 10 engineering school should be able to do something like that easily...even if its the last one of the top 10 list. I fear to think of how useless an IE from anything below a top 10 school is if Purdue ones can't get their shit together.
     
  8. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Its not a stupid line of reasoning...its a generalization, which I already stated. You are American...exactly. I'm talking about Hispanics that grew up in their respective Latin American Countries.
     
  9. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Another example finally popped into my head randomly...night clubs. I went to one in Ibiza called privilege that can fit around 10,000 people. They checked that many IDs between like 1 and 3am.
     
  10. MasterSki

    MasterSki Site Editor (1,025) Ontario (Canada) Dec 25, 2006 Staff Member

    Illinois establishments can't sell beer from out-of-state without a distributor.

    In any case, this isn't "self-distributing". The bar/store would still need an invoice from 3 Floyds showing the transaction and that they paid the appropriate excise taxes and such. Obviously this wouldn't be the case with Dark Lord.
     
  11. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Dude they check IDs, that is not at all the same as checking ID's and matching to a list, and I don't care if that list is "only" 200-300 people deep. It would be enough of a cluster just getting people to the correct checker. You are trying to solve a problem you simply do NOT understand. Go there and then you will see how some of your comparisons just aren't realistic.
     
  12. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    It's a bar...there's always an inherent markup. They usually make somewhere between 100% and 300% if not more on alcohol. Its less than eBay and its at a freaking bar, I don't see why there should be any outrage about the price. About being DL which isn't supposed to be distributed so bars shouldn't be able to sell it sure, but the 55 a pop is irrelevant.
     
  13. rt1976

    rt1976 Aficionado (180) Indiana Apr 29, 2009

    I guess my question is. If a bar owner purchased the DL @ DLD is it legal to sell in the establishment?

    I'm guessing the bar is in IL or IN but it has not been confirmed.
     
  14. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Yea, they check that you look like the picture and check what date you were born. Takes about as much time as matching the name on the ticket to the name on the ID...who said anything about a list? That's idiotic...that would definitely take forever and be counter productive.
     
  15. rt1976

    rt1976 Aficionado (180) Indiana Apr 29, 2009

    $55 a pop is in line with the mark up for other craft beer (ie alpha king @ $6 a bottle)
     
  16. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    It's not...if you reported it to the Liquor Board of that state and they gave a shit they could get them in real trouble. That is unless its something like Darkness that gets distributed too so the label has been approved by the state and therefore is completely legal. I know DL doesn't get distributed now but if it did before and the label got approved and it hasn't changed, then I can see it not being illegal.
     
  17. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    So limit one ticket per person and that person's name has to be on ticket? So no one can buy a ticket for wife, brother in Iraq, cousin who is having surgery that day, etc. That is just as ridiculous as a list.
     
  18. drabmuh

    drabmuh Champion (815) Maryland Feb 7, 2004

    There are a few bottles on the vintage shelf of beers already but it is not exactly clear how to order from that list. Lots of beers on the shelf that aren't on the menu. Mildly annoying.
     
  19. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Yep, I think he was just thinking damn that's a high price because its a big number for sure but its right in line with the markups for other beers. Its always more expensive to drink at a pub than at home unless you're buying on eBay.
     
  20. theburden

    theburden Aficionado (240) Illinois Dec 17, 2002

    No, what I was thinking was that no DL is distributed outside of the brewery. None. Ergo it's bootlegged to that menu and gouged price wise on top of it.
     
  21. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    o_O When did I say that? Don't interpret shit I don't say. Tickets having a name on them doesn't mean the limit has to be one and that it has to be your name on it. The limit can be w/e number FFF wants it to be per transaction and you can type the name for the tickets you buy at the checkout so you can buy a ticket for whoever the hell you want provided you know their name...which eBayers/scalpers don't know the name of the person they'll be profiting off of in the future;)
     
  22. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Bootlegged sure you're right gouge pricedo_O. Again its in line with the markups you can expect at a bar. If you go out drinking no matter what beer it is you find there's gonna be the same type of markup on it. Gouging would be if they charged 100 just because of how popular it is. They're charging according to their business model which is a certain markup for all beers over the price they paid for them. Doesn't matter if they paid the price to the distributor or the brewery itself.
     
  23. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Free country, free to interpret. So someone will stay have to know exactly who all can go at ticket order, you are a fabulous problem solver.
     
  24. I'm not opposed to the idea of non-transferable tickets, since I've had to deal with having my name on tickets before to justify going to an event. I guess the question is if the tradeoff of getting rid of scalpers worth it to the Floyds if it also prevents people from legitimitely needing to sell the ticket in cases of emergency. My guess is it isn't, so they will continue having the tickets separated by time with no names attached.

    If they did go with non-transferables, however, I think you have to cut the ticket number in half, have slightly less raffle numbers and have more DL variants on tap in the pub that the event could still be worth it to many, many beer geeks. Then again, I'm sure that the event would be worth it to just as many people if it was a pick up only sort of thing.

    A bigger cocern in reality is the line cutting. When I made a trade around the midpoint of the day, I met my partner by the exit of the bar where people just got done buying Dark Lord. I'm sure that I had to go through a clusterfuck of people that was the result of having nearly three lines merging (merchandise, guiest drafts and DL sales). Undoubtedly, the Floyds can get volunteers who can keep line-jumping to a minimum so those who have been waiting some time for their bottles don't get undercut by others. I say this as a guy who feels guilty about doing it myself, though also as a victim of having it done to me.

    And finally, they need to expand the grounds of where this is happening. I find kind of unbelievable that businesses know the event happens and some event permit parking, but wouldn't let the pub set up draft stations or merch or whatever at those locations. There's just too many people trying to squeeze into one tight space and the Floyds has enough notority and money know to make a serious push for a larger, more accomidating space. I feel like it's a change that can realistically happen.
     
    otrejo likes this.
  25. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    Yea, they would...that's always the downside to non-transferable tickets. I'm not a fabulous problem solver, I'm just saying its a possible solution if they really wanna curb the ticket scalping problem. Either way there's still gonna be an inconvenience for people and its a damned if you do damned if you don't sort of situation...it just comes down to priorities. If there was a perfect solution that would make everyone happy we wouldn't be here arguing. There's gonna be a lot of people that would say good job if FFF did what I'm saying and just as many that would bitch if they did. Exactly like how it is now, it would just get rid of most if not all of the scalping if that's high on their priority list.
     
  26. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Exactly, and the bigger issue is scalping is perfectly legal in Indiana (unless it involved the Final 4). Pretty hard to curb scalping when the state feels it is ok.

    Think there was a Super Bowl clause as well.
     
  27. mjohnson17

    mjohnson17 Advocate (585) Illinois Apr 29, 2012

    Do you want to hear a sad story from DLD this year?

    I had tried to buy some Baller Stout at the FFF tent but it was sold out. I happen to see two guys with a great collection of all sorts of rare FFF beers they had purchased at DLD. Between the two of them they had 8 bottles of DL, a BA Vanilla DL, a BA Cognac DL, 6 bottles of Balller, 4 Mutiny and the Mollusk, a couple Behemoths, and a case of ZD. When I approached them to inquire about a trade they laughed and said "no trading, cash only". I wanted a baller pretty bad so I considered paying for it (mind you FFF was selling them for $30/bottle at DLD). So I asked how much and they said $50 was the minimum.
    It's d-bags like these who attend DLD just to turn a profit. I'm sure their entire day's loot is out on ebay now fetching way more than it should. They ruin everything DLD stands for. It was the only dark spot on an otherwise amazing event.
     
  28. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    Hey man, I happened to pick up an extra Baller (got 2 but one has a home already), shoot me a convo and I can hook you up, if another generous BA hasn't beat me to it.
     
    cpinto6 likes this.
  29. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    That's not the issue at all...legal or not, the issue is how FFF feels about it. Something doesn't have to be illegal for a company to wanna curb it and have options to do it quite successfully, in this case non-transferable tickets, though that's not the only way. Any way you can think of though is still gonna have enough supporters to sell out and enough dissenters to bitch about it all day.

    What does unless its involved in the Final 4 mean, I'm curious also what's the super bowl clause?
     
  30. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    State legislation specifically made the scalping of Final Four (and I think Super Bowl) tickets illegal in the state.

    My point was more a general one about the hate towards scalping...not DLD only, scalping is just part of life IMO and has been a constant problem here for concerts, etc. As scalpers rapidly buy everything up and force a lot of folks who want to attend into the secondary market.
     
  31. MasterSki

    MasterSki Site Editor (1,025) Ontario (Canada) Dec 25, 2006 Staff Member

    No. They still wouldn't have the appropriate paperwork from the brewery showing that it is for resale. There's a store in San Diego that does this sort of thing with limited Lost Abbey releases (Veritas, etc.) and it's totally illegal.
     
  32. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    That's cool, so what happens when someone has to resell? They just do it at cost? How is the fair price determined? Or do they just not allow secondary market sales?

    I agree with that totally, I don't hate scalpers, just saying if FFF has something against it they can do something about it. Scalping other shit isn't illegal because there's not enough people interested to make it illegal. There's no reason that it should be illegal for a certain type of event tickets to have scalpers and not other ones except interest. If beer was and beer events were as big as Super Bowl and Final Four then it would probably be illegal too. Its a constant problem everywhere and the people that care about curbing it have been trying to find the best way to deal with it and others have just given up and said fuck it w/e happens happens.

    While I don't hate scalpers, it always makes me happy to see them losing money on their scalping investments. You have no idea how happy it made me to buy tickets from a scalper for a music festival back in march for less than they would've cost me to buy them from the legit event site before it sold out.
     
  33. Unless I'm mistaken, no one has suggested that making tickets non-transferable would not reduce scalping/secondary market activity. Rather, it's just a poor move to make; one that would cause all sorts of other hassles that probably outweigh the benefits. Sure, no more scalping for DLD but then the event would be terrible. Huzzah?
     
  34. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    You say the event would be terrible...a lot of people agree with you and a lot disagree with you. That's the nature of a solution to a problem that doesn't have a perfect solution.
     
  35. Blanco

    Blanco Advocate (500) Pennsylvania Oct 11, 2008

    Well if you want to speak for your own people you should clarify, be specific and not use the generic term "hispanics" which does not mean you are a citizen of a Latin American country or not American. Tax evasion is not a common practice among the hispanics that I personally know.
     
    MordorMongo likes this.
  36. cpinto6

    cpinto6 Savant (365) Georgia Feb 25, 2010

    I said we tend to wanna bend the rules...and I did clarify you just probably didn't read the other replies to grilch. Tax evasion is not a common practice among hispanics here but in hispanic countries it is. A lot of the justification behind it is that corrupt politicians pocket the tax money instead of using it for the good of the country anyways so why the fuck should we pay for their yachts and ski vacations and planes, etc, etc. I personally know none that live here permanently...I know a shit ton that live in their countries.
     
  37. trginter

    trginter Savant (380) Michigan Dec 1, 2008

    I haven't read through all 7 pages, but my Michigan Summer Beer Fest ticket has my name on it. Printed it off from the website.
     
  38. rt1976

    rt1976 Aficionado (180) Indiana Apr 29, 2009

    If its illegal than there is a legitimate cause for action...

    For others saying it its price gouging, its in line with other craft beers that are usually 3 to 4 times retail...
     
  39. rt1976

    rt1976 Aficionado (180) Indiana Apr 29, 2009

    Also some of you need to step back and be happy this is what you have to bitch about....its just beer...you chose to base your whole existence on it...FFF didn't ask you to do it, and in turn owes you nothing...some folks would love to have your beer budget to feed their kids....
     
    mm2112 and Beezee like this.
  40. MasterSki

    MasterSki Site Editor (1,025) Ontario (Canada) Dec 25, 2006 Staff Member

    While the markup is on the high side of things, it's not excessive. I'd certainly be willing to pay $40-45 for a beer like Dark Lord at a bar.

    There are a *few* cases where a bar could legally have it for sale. It would involve someone liquidating a personal collection through an in-state distributor, after which it is sold to bar/store. I remember Crown Liquors in Carmel had some Russian River beers for sale that were procured this way. However, the markup was insane, as the cost to the distributor would be retail price (or higher). In any case, the store/bar and distributor would have supporting documents.
     

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