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Trading Sense: Red Flags

Discussion in 'Beer Trading Talk & Help' started by maximum12, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. maximum12

    maximum12 Champion (755) Minnesota Jan 21, 2008

    Well, we seem to be in another mini-epidemic of bad-lousy traders. Unfortunate, but it happens. There's little defense against a long-time, well-established trader going off the rails, but what about the rest of humanity?

    So my question is: what are your personal red flags?

    My biggee: Slow Responder Guy. If I'm trying to set up a trade, & there's a two or three day lag time between responses, I'm going to call it off. Maybe I'm paranoid, but I always figure that if someone doesn't have time for a thirty or ninety second response to an inquiry or refinement of a trade for days at a time, the chances of them finding time to pack up a box in their supremely busy schedule are close to nil. The once or twice I've broken my own rule, I've rued it (though the slow-motion traders still came through in the end).

    Let's hear it. It would be nice to know what other people consider their 'red lines'.
  2. tewaris

    tewaris Advocate (595) Minnesota Jul 14, 2009

    1. Deal too good to be true.

    2. Poor (read horrid) English.
  3. Photekut

    Photekut Initiate (0) Tennessee Mar 31, 2006

    1. people who defend bad traders
    2. usernames with drug references ( not my idea, but it seems to fit more than several times already )
    3. people who demand wales for off the shelf beers and post the same threads over and over.
  4. I can't stand slow responders. A day is fine, but when it takes 3 days to respond to a BM I'm leaning on not making the trade. I recently turned down a trade from a reputable guy because he took too long to reply.
  5. futura123

    futura123 Savant (340) California Jul 29, 2010

    BA username is Mikegroove or any on the bad trader list.
  6. GoGriz

    GoGriz Savant (265) Massachusetts Dec 2, 2008

    No trades with women, hippies or Bobcats. In other words, people who worship the devil. Other than that I'm open.
  7. maximum12

    maximum12 Champion (755) Minnesota Jan 21, 2008

    I've been on the giving & receiving end of deals too good to be true, but I'm with you on the bad English. Our old friend JoJo was a classic in that respect, though our trade actually went off without a hitch.
  8. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    If they're new-ish to trading, not being willing to ship first.

    Additionally, since I spend way too much time on this site, I tend to form opinions on users based on the way they post and/or how they act in an argument. May not be fair, but then again I'd rather just keep my beer to drink than hook up someone I can't stand (which, truth be told, aren't many users... I'm a pretty tolerant guy).

    I dunno, I just kinda know one when I see one...
  9. shuajw

    shuajw Savant (495) Georgia Aug 12, 2007

    All of this. I have a decent list of people that I'd probably not trade with based on their posting. Especially in some of the bad trader threads, people that seem to be deadbeat apologists.
    aasher, Rempo and Photekut like this.
  10. 1. unsolicited offers
    2. over-eagerness
    3. setting up trades with pending trades
    4. spasticated forum postings
    5. repeated flailing in FT posts (will this work? how about this? how about this? how about this?)
    6. Imagined Over-value (IE this bottle sells on eBay for $xxx, so let's work from there)
    7. People with cellar spreadsheets (especially if it's color-coded)

    I'm way less concerned with timeliness- I know I dragged my feet before, and I had one dude who took *eight* months to ship his end. What did I do? Maintained no-pressure contact and told him to get it out to me when he could. He did, and it all worked out in the end.
  11. tewaris

    tewaris Advocate (595) Minnesota Jul 14, 2009

    What about spreadsheets?
  12. csano

    csano Initiate (0) Washington Sep 21, 2010

    Who hurt you?
    JustinF, JxExM, Weebay and 9 others like this.
  13. dvelcich

    dvelcich Savant (340) Illinois Feb 6, 2008

    A flag that pops up in my head from time to time comes from the guy who can't remember what you and he talked about over the course of the trade negotiation when all he has to do is read the several posts above his new one asking what we talked about. Is that guy for real? It's happened to me three times I can remember.
    jamvt, atoulouk, rmalinowski4 and 3 others like this.
  14. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Oh yeah! Another big one is someone who posts in the ISO:FT multiple times a week, every week. I have as much free time as just about anyone outside my 8 to 5, but even three trades a week is exhausting after a few weeks of it. Someone trading that much is likely to burn out at some point, and I'm not interested in being the person on the other side of it.
    trxxpaxxs likes this.
  15. I don't like spreadsheets. And I hate being linked to spreadsheets. And color-coding spreadsheets is just silly.

    that one's mostly in jest, mostly.
  16. baybassboy

    baybassboy Savant (380) California Feb 23, 2011

    unwillingness to share phone numbers and/or e-mail addresses

    wanting to go as big as possible in one of their first trades

    "but you live in SoCal... how hard can it be to get a case of week old Pliny?"
    afrokaze and BdubleEdubleRUN like this.
  17. tewaris

    tewaris Advocate (595) Minnesota Jul 14, 2009

    Agreed on that one. I wish more people were aware of the "publish" feature on google docs that lets you send a webpage instead of spreadsheet, although I suspect you might hate it equally.

    I am not opposed to viewing spreadsheets but I don't like people cellars showing up on my docs list :-/

    I personally stick to good ol' Wants/Gots list.
    HopsJunkiedotcom likes this.
  18. People with color coded spreadsheets are exactly the types I'd think are the best trade partners. Attention to detail, everything is well thought out and they're unlikely to blow their reputation by blowing off a trade. But maybe it's too much of a good thing...
    VonZipper, JxExM, ridglens and 7 others like this.
  19. MordorMongo

    MordorMongo Initiate (0) Jul 19, 2009

    This ^. Hell I want to trade with Mark based mostly on agreeing with a hell of a lot of his posts.

    Communication is my biggest red flag. Almost without fail, the better someone communicates the better trader they seem to be. While I have never had a BAD trade (knocks on wood), the ones I have had that weren't as pleasant as the others all were from slow/sporadic/infrequent/piss-poor communicators.
  20. Steimie

    Steimie Initiate (0) Michigan Jan 7, 2012

    Yep, not communicating. I haven't traded that much, but it doesn't take long to send a quick note. I have a pending trade right now with someone that I traded with once before. He was slow to respond but I was super new to trading and thought my expectations were just a little too high. Turns out I wasn't being unreasonable in expecting a reply within a day or so. Now, it's been since Friday and he hasn't replied and I'm sitting on a 12 pack of a beer I don't particularly want b/c I haven't heard form him yet.

    He's got until tomorrow and I'm putting up a FT for this stuff that I don't want (but some others may).
  21. Communication is king. Not just frequency, but being unnecessarily terse/brief worries me.

    I'm very skeptical of poorly written messages too. I'm not looking for the Queen's English, but if you write a trade offer that reads like a 12 year old sending a text message, I'm probably going to run away.

    Anyone that ever references Ebay during negotiations is just not somebody I'm going to bother with.

    Lastly, if I don't recognize a person from the forums, and particularly with new users, I'm going to scan their posting history.
  22. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (680) Indiana Nov 29, 2007

    If I see someone saying a bunch of ridiculous things about how their Rare is worth a Blauw.

    If I post an ISO/FT and get lowballed by a person hardcore, particularly if it happens on more than one occasion. It actually pisses me off when an established trader blatantly does it and is completely serious.

    Someone who doesn't take constructive criticism on the forums well, even after they say "Why doesn't anyone want my DL'12 for their BA Hunahpu's???? I mean, I even offered to add a fresh 6pk of Zombie Dust!!!!".

    It boils down to a person being extremely undereducated about trading and trying to trade over their head, or a person who clearly tries to take advantage of others.

    I've also noticed that a good number of the "bad traders" are coming from people who joined the site around or after the no-reply forums. People diving right in, new traders trading with new traders, no one knowing what you should actually expect out of a trade, no one reading things like Alewatcher's advice to new traders. I've had plenty of good experiences with newer guys, but I can't help but notice that many culprits are guys I've never/hardly seen on the forums.
    woodchopper and Photekut like this.
  23. claaark13

    claaark13 Advocate (680) Indiana Nov 29, 2007

    I've had multiple very positive USA trades with guys who either don't care at all about grammar or clearly work from their phones.

    I completely agree with the rest.

    To expand on your last part, if I ship a box to a guy I haven't seen much but has a lot of trade references, I'll look for reliable people on that list (or previous people I've traded with) and ask one or two quickly if they'd trade with him again.
    woodchopper likes this.
  24. cmmcdonn

    cmmcdonn Savant (355) Virginia Jun 21, 2009

    I read through their post history. If they are active, contributing members to other forums other than the ISO:FT, I feel more at ease.

    I am also biased against peoples avatar. (like kzoobrew's sickly Chuck Norris looking one) :p
    Ungertaker, adamdd and afrokaze like this.
  25. buffs9

    buffs9 Savant (450) Colorado Apr 28, 2008

    I'm not big on people that send offers that sound like a sales pitch / try to overvalue their own beer, the old:
    "I'll send you Beer x (super limited, only x amount produced) and beer y (brewery only, never bottled before)".
    Got a minor burn recently, when a trader pushed the latest (Stone) bottleworks on me telling me it was only available at Bottleworks and was really limited. It was a bottle to fill out a bigger deal so I figured I'd try something new, but it did piss me off when I saw it all over CO a week later.
  26. mike409

    mike409 Aficionado (235) Michigan Jan 25, 2012

    why no women my wife has mad so amazing trades plus she sends amazing cookies your loss douche
    minnesotaryan likes this.
  27. maximum12

    maximum12 Champion (755) Minnesota Jan 21, 2008

    That's an interesting point, I'll keep that one in mind.
    aasher likes this.
  28. You managed to hit 4 or 5 of the red flags in about 15 words. Good job.
  29. Etan

    Etan Champion (755) Wisconsin Jul 11, 2011

    ckobes, ET678, quirkzoo and 3 others like this.
  30. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Champion (835) New York Dec 13, 2009

    no phone number
    pro ebay
    profiteer type trading history
    references don't have glowing things to say about them (you gotta check refs)
    less than 10 trades or less than 6 months on the board MUST ship first or no deal
  31. dvelcich

    dvelcich Savant (340) Illinois Feb 6, 2008

    I have to completely disagree with you on this one. I'm at 124 trades without giving or asking for a phone number or email outside of BA. If you do your homework on here (checking references and posting history/making sure new traders ship first), you won't need any of that outside information.
  32. maximum12

    maximum12 Champion (755) Minnesota Jan 21, 2008

    I just giggled like a little girl. That is one of the funniest things I've read around here in a long time. Sixteen merit points for you.
    cosmicevan and GrumpyOldTroll like this.
  33. MarkIntihar

    MarkIntihar Initiate (0) Michigan Mar 17, 2010

    Any word on that Adam? This CBH is just chilling in my fridge, sadly looking up at every next beer I choose over it... ;)
    MordorMongo likes this.
  34. [quote="cosmicevan, post: 271758, member: 404079"
    less than 10 trades or less than 6 months on the board MUST ship first or no deal[/quote]

    I call bullshit on the 10 trades minimum. I don't have 10 trades and only shipped first on my first trade. I can see that maybe making sense if their only references are local, friends, or other newbies. I made sure to do my homework before starting at all and traded only with established traders to start. Everyone has their own parameters, but I don't think that one is a good general rule.
  35. GoGriz

    GoGriz Savant (265) Massachusetts Dec 2, 2008

    I no lik woman trade cuz they hav cooties.
  36. Too much time on BA?

    I do this same exact thing. I have a mental list of people I won't trade with just based off their post history, they may be great traders but I'm really only interested in trading with people who I would be interesting in being friends with IRL.
  37. cosmicevan

    cosmicevan Champion (835) New York Dec 13, 2009

    call bullsh*t all you want, but if you reply to a trade offer i put up with less than 10 trades, i will ask you to ship 1st. if you say no, then i won't trade with you. ultimately your loss.

    i really don't get why newb traders don't jump at the opportunity to ship first with vet traders (although i don't really consider myself a vet compared to many here). if you trade with a real vet, you can bet that they will one up your box, so if you ship first, that means that they will receive your box before putting something together to send your way. you ship first and send a killer box to a vet...well...that's how you quickly set up a trading relationship with someone that you probably want to have a relationship with. a newb ships first and extras me with a want or thoughtful stuff, and they'll get killed. if they send me what was agreed upon, they'll still get a local or two.

    pro tip - shipping first as a newb is a great opportunity since your box will be received before the return box is even packed.

    it is usually pretty obvious who has an account here that they don't want to tarnish (aside from idiotic drunk postings - uh oh after 11pm!!!) and who won't disappear right away and who is friends with other local BAs. it should be painfully obvious by post history (and post count alone) who is safe to ship first to.
  38. youradhere

    youradhere Savant (485) Arkansas Feb 29, 2008

    Yeah...um...nevermind. I don't like Satan worshiping bobcats either...
  39. emdawg

    emdawg Aficionado (225) New York Jun 29, 2011

    While you may think this is funny, I actually don't set up trades myself because people have treated me differently (read: poorly) because of my gender and I don't find it funny at all. Although through observing Spike's trades I find it really creepy when someone doesn't sign their name after multiple messages where he was signed his. Or just when people treat him like a shopping cart instead of a person.
  40. So you wouldn't trade with someone like this...

    tewaris and aasher like this.

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