WTF is going on with this excise tax?

Discussion in 'US - Midwest' started by elshaggy, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. elshaggy

    elshaggy Aficionado (205) Minnesota Jul 12, 2009

    I see now that its going to be paid by brewers causing our prices to go up. I thought we were making progress in our alcohol/beer laws? surly just buys their site. Now this comes up. I think it's getting blown out on reddit they said its going to be $3 a case of beer while on kare11 this morning they are stating 7cents a drink. I can understand 7cents more than a quarter a beer. Anyone have more info on this proposed tax?
     
  2. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010

    It looks like they are trying to significantly raise all the excise taxes, beer, wine and spirits. Excise taxes have always been paid by the distributor or brewer though, currently in MN they are $4.60/barrel for non-3.2 beer. Last proposal I saw had it at $24 or so/ barrel so it would go from like $.30/case to about $1.80/case.
     
  3. distributors pay it, but I am sure they aren't going to just say "oh man, all those hard working loyal customers sure don't want to pay this extra money, we better pay it for them." we will see increases in our cost, fortunately it isn't a huge jump, though it does suck.
     
    Revenant likes this.
  4. hamham

    hamham Aficionado (170) Minnesota Oct 26, 2011

    technically the brewer pays the excise tax, as it is a manufacturing tax. but once you factor in the various markups paid by distributors, retail accounts and consumers, this will mean a much bigger markup ultimately absorbed by the end consumer.
     
  5. incutrav

    incutrav Savant (315) Minnesota Jan 16, 2007

    Wasnt this tax hike attempted the last couple years as well? I dont follow this stuff as closely as I should, but I know I've seen this attempt before. When the gov't starts trying to increase the price of my beer, I take notice!
     
    pmccallum86 likes this.
  6. BottleCaps80

    BottleCaps80 Advocate (635) Iowa Jan 12, 2013

    I read an article yesterday that said the jump in cost could be as much as $2/12pk in Minnesota. Oooof.
     
  7. elshaggy

    elshaggy Aficionado (205) Minnesota Jul 12, 2009

    More incentive to get my ass home brewing and just buy special releases.
     
    theCoder likes this.
  8. hardy008

    hardy008 Champion (760) Minnesota Jan 12, 2008

    Time to vote the arrogant bastards out.
     
    motorhed, Philly82785 and fantome like this.
  9. mnbearsfan

    mnbearsfan Savant (425) Minnesota Dec 25, 2009

    Hmmmm, I guess I'll make more trips to Wisconsin on Sundays...
     
    Revenant likes this.
  10. Pure jackassery
     
  11. damn the man! save the empire!
     
    crushedvol and motorhed like this.
  12. mnbearsfan

    mnbearsfan Savant (425) Minnesota Dec 25, 2009

    Nice obscure quote!
     
  13. I read this:
    HTML:
    http://www.twincities.com/opinion/ci_23047137/minnesota-closer-look-at-beer-tax-consequences-pioneer
    and then emailed my Representative :
    HTML:
    http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/faq/faqtoc.aspx?id=47
    . I suggest you take a minute to break away from BA and do the same. While you're at it tell them that we want free market sales on Sunday!
     
  14. It's Rex Manning Day!
     
  15. Penguin3200

    Penguin3200 Savant (320) Minnesota Dec 28, 2008

    All this talk about taxes......I just want to be able to stand in shorts and grill and drink a hefe on my deck! Curse you Mother Nature!
     
    maximum12 and olympuszymurgus like this.
  16. It's a conspiracy man, the man is just, like, changing the weather to keep us complacent.
     
    Penguin3200 likes this.
  17. BottleCaps80

    BottleCaps80 Advocate (635) Iowa Jan 12, 2013

  18. Excise tax is always and only paid by the brewery. It is paid on beer produce before the beer leave the brewery for sale. If this passes it will mean Summit will be paying more in excise (production) tax to make beer then the raw materials and labor combined to produce the beer. Having to hike the cost of our beer up to cover the taxes creates an unfair advantage to out of state breweries that ship beer here. Call your legislators and voice your opinion about this piece of bad legislation. If you do know who it is use this website. http://www.leg.state.mn.us/leg/districtfinder.aspx
     
  19. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010

    Excise tax is paid on beer sold in the state of MN. If the brewery were to produce everything in MN, but sell it all in WI, the WI excise tax would be paid, not the MN tax.

    Raising the tax rate almost 700% is terrible in it's own right. Lets not muddy this with bad info about how this would be an unfair burden to in-state brewers as opposed to out of state brewers. This would be equally bad on both of them. It might impact Summit more since they sell 80% of the beer they produce in MN, vs. say Bells who doesn't sell anywhere near that much, but it is only on the beer sold in MN, not produced.

    Federal Excise tax is on production (although I think if it is sold out of the country you can get that back) MN excise tax is on sales (look at the LB41 form, the tax is on shipment into MN, at no time does it ask production).
     
    jesskidden likes this.
  20. fantome

    fantome Savant (275) Minnesota Oct 4, 2003

    Does anyone know if the MN Craft Brewer's Guild is doing anything about this?
     
  21. theCoder

    theCoder Savant (340) Minnesota Oct 24, 2011

    This is my goal this year. I've dropped most standard pickups aside from growlers from my local breweries. I realize just buying limited releases hurts the market in other ways but I already have a doozy of a cellar and not to mention more than my fair share of still bottled homebrew. This just forces me to drop my cellar down more and just brew tastier beers. Honestly I find myself going to my homebrew more now that I've gotten better at it and it sucks because my 3 fav homebrews are running dangerously low (Rhubarb Wheat, Chocolate Habanero Imperial Stout and a Winter Warmer aged on organic cherries). So off to work on the cellar while I make more beer :p
     
    elshaggy likes this.
  22. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010

    Passed the house, rumor is the senate and the Governator don't support it. Contact your senators to make sure. A tax increase like this would reduce the number of breweries coming into MN by a huge amount I think.
     
  23. incutrav

    incutrav Savant (315) Minnesota Jan 16, 2007

    Apparently the argument my legislators is that brewers don't HAVE to pass the increase onto customers, they can just take less profit. Problem is for many of the smaller breweries, margins are likely already thin.
     
  24. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010

    Your legislators are idiots. It's not just the brewers who would theoractically decide to eat this new cost (and why would brewers based outside of MN do this?) it would also be the distributors, and the liquor store or bar.

    Honestly anyone making that arguement is so far removed from reality I would be actively campaigning next time to remove them from office as governing with your head so far up your ass that you can see your teeth is a poor way to run the state.
     
    hardy008 likes this.
  25. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010

    Just sent an e-mail to my state senator. Lets see the response.
     
  26. incutrav

    incutrav Savant (315) Minnesota Jan 16, 2007

    The 'my' in my statement was typo, it was a general consensus from all the legislators involved is what I gather. Tom Hauser from the number 5 reported it.

    I dont know anything about anything, but I emailed my local rep. a couple weeks back on this.
     
  27. Right, and liquor stores don't HAVE to be open on Sunday. They will.
     
  28. Duff27

    Duff27 Advocate (600) Illinois Feb 10, 2010

    Sounds like a niche market for all those less than or equal to 3.2abv brewers out there in Minnesota :p
     
  29. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010


    Actually the proposed tax removes the lower tax rate for 3.2 product.
     
  30. Duff27

    Duff27 Advocate (600) Illinois Feb 10, 2010

    Oppps, sorry!
     
  31. motorhed

    motorhed Savant (300) Minnesota Oct 27, 2008

    Fabulous quote from a great movie.
     
  32. motorhed

    motorhed Savant (300) Minnesota Oct 27, 2008

    Just an FYI - The Four Firkins newsletter just hit my inbox and they have a write-up on this very topic.
     
  33. If the current proposal were to pass it sounds like roughly between a $2-$3 per case increase and $15 per keg. At least that is what I've gathered from what I've researched and been told. With the proposed excise tax increase of $23 per barrel it would bump MN total state beer tax per barrel to roughly $56 compared to those of the following states: ND-$27, SD-$27, IA-$25, WI-$18. MN is currently already the highest at $33. People should be active in every issue that comes up, but this one will really effect BA's. I work in the industry and I'm afraid of what the increased prices would do sales at restaurants and liquor stores. Regardless of which way you swing on this issue it is important and you should be heard.
     
  34. plumcrazyfx

    plumcrazyfx Savant (450) Minnesota Aug 26, 2010

    Maybe I just need to get more info on this issue from other sources. I have a feeling most here really pushing this thread are "working in the industry". I've seen BAs stand in sleet for two hours to pay $45 for a growler that's good, not great - doubt this increase would change behavior.
     
  35. grantcty

    grantcty Aficionado (235) Minnesota Feb 17, 2008

    What's your point? That we should just shut up and pay more? I'm not in the industry and I sure as hell won't be buying much at MN liquor stores or bars if this passes. I know I'll be in the minority, but so be it. Still not sure what your point is and why we shouldn't be voicing our opinion on this.
     
    BrettHead and incutrav like this.
  36. morimech

    morimech Advocate (710) Minnesota Nov 6, 2006

    Pretty naïve of us Minnesotan's after we voted this last November. We gave them carte blanche to raise taxes however they seem fit.
     
    mfl620ks and fantome like this.
  37. BrettHead

    BrettHead Advocate (535) Nebraska Sep 18, 2010

    Yup, you apparently aren't allowed to complain unless you are already on board with plumcrazyfx's pet issues. What arrogance :rolleyes:
     
  38. ZAP

    ZAP Advocate (735) Minnesota Dec 1, 2001

    I hope you have passed this great info onto lawmakers
     
  39. plumcrazyfx

    plumcrazyfx Savant (450) Minnesota Aug 26, 2010

    My issue are the people who get on here acting like joe schmoe without any skin in the game when in reality they represent the industry - a little disclosure might be the ethical thing.
     
  40. deadbody

    deadbody Savant (340) Minnesota May 10, 2010

    I don't represent the industry. Not at all.
     

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