Fourth Dementia (4D)
Kuhnhenn Brewing Company

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Old Ale
Ranked #6
Ranked #848
4.31 | pDev: 8.82%
Kuhnhenn Brewing Company
Michigan, United States
Notes: Previously Fourth Dementia

2009 11.8%
2010 13.5%
2011 13.5%
Reviews: 457 | Ratings: 1,075 | Log in to view all ratings and sort
Photo of larryi86
larryi86 from Delaware

4.57/5  rDev +6%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.5

Blind review:
12 oz bottle poured into a wine glass

A- Black with a small mocha head. 4

S- Dark chocolate, molasses, bourbon, char oak, dark fruits, some toffee, slightly smoky. 4.5

T- Molasses, toffee, some dark chocolate, dark fruits, oak, some bourbon, touch of smoke. 4.75

M- Smooth, full body. 4.5

O- This is excellent, easy to drink and very well balanced. 4.5

After thoughts:
This is a 2 year old bottle and I’m getting an oaky quality to this, even though it is not the barrel aged version it does have a lot of flavors I tend to notice in barrel aged beers.

Jul 17, 2020
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cratez from Canada (ON)

3.78/5  rDev -12.3%
look: 4 | smell: 4 | taste: 3.5 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 3.75

Rating from notes. Consumed January 2014. "Good in small doses due to aggressive sweetness. I enjoyed my sample but would never be able to finish a full bottle. Worth trying for the novelty though."

Jan 26, 2020
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pants678 from California

4.49/5  rDev +4.2%
look: 5 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 5 | overall: 4.75

Murky brown, some foam.


Syrupy sweet, brown sugary, could use some char/smoke flavor. High ABV is hidden. Maybe the faintest bit of tart. No complaints here, hits all the right notes.

Medium bodied.

Sep 06, 2019
Photo of Dragginballs76
Dragginballs76 from South Carolina

4.79/5  rDev +11.1%
look: 4.75 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 5 | feel: 4.75 | overall: 4.75

Appearance - Pours mahogany brown with a nice thick tan head that settles to a thick ring. Great lacing everywhere which surprised me for the ABV.

Aroma - Big aromas of fig, plum, oak, bourbon, very mild vanilla. Lots of toffee, caramel and brown sugar.

Taste - Oh lord, much sweeter than expected. Lots of brown sugar, caramel, raisin, fig and plum. Big vanilla in the taste much more than I picked up in the nose. Really a rich sweet flavor, the bourbon and oak come through well.

Feel - High side of medium, great carbonation slightly warming but very smooth and easy drinking for the ABV.

Overall - Excellent beer, I love the taste the nose did not prepare me for the vanilla sweetness.

Jun 02, 2019
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Jimmy_Kneecaps from Tennessee

4.92/5  rDev +14.2%
look: 4.5 | smell: 5 | taste: 5 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 5

Look is dark brown and opaque with minimal khaki colored head. Aroma is crazy, toffee, caramel, dark fruits, vanilla, brown sugar, bready malts, and the slightest barrel hit. All the scents show up in the taste. Starts with dark fruits, then caramel, toffee, and brown sugar. The finish is strong sweet vanilla and bready malts. It’s sweet the whole time, but never overly sweet or like a dessert stout. Mouthfeel is pretty thick. Somewhat prickly but also kinda smooth. Overall this is world class amazing.

May 28, 2019
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rodbeermunch from Nevada

3.89/5  rDev -9.7%
look: 3.25 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 4.25 | feel: 4 | overall: 3.75

Pours a dark chestnut brown. Small lighter brown head 1/5". Aroma is quite boozy, but it also throwns a dense layer of rum cake malt booziness, chocolate, earthiness, wet wood, tobacco and wet leaves.

Taste takes those smells and puts a warm sherry like presence throughout the first few sips, it takes about 20% of the bottle to get accustomed to this. Molasses and raisins, the unsweetened variety. The amounts imperialized toffee and lesser caramel is not too damn high but it makes you think about it. You're not breathing fire but you can feel some of the heat on your tongue. Has that dense ass brick feel of a loaf of dark bread with booze dumped in the punch bowl.

In the right scene, these can be nice to chew on. A treat, but nothing I'm ever going to want to have multiples of in a sitting.

Mar 11, 2018
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Treyliff from West Virginia

3.99/5  rDev -7.4%
look: 3.75 | smell: 3.5 | taste: 4.25 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4

2013 vintage
12oz bottle poured into a snifter

A- pours a deep brown with some light creeping through, very thin head that disappears almost immediately

S- smells of burnt caramel/toffee, molasses, rum soaked raisins, fruit cake, leather, tobacco, soy sauce & cardboard. Oxidization is definitely settling in

T- big caramel sweetness up front consumes the entry, quickly followed by melted caramel/toffee, rum soaked fig & raisin, black cherry, even a bit of sherry. Bready maltiness gives notes of brown bread with molasses. Just a hint of oxidization gives a bit of soy sauce on the finish, but lingers with more caramel, dark fruit & brandy-like notes

M- medium body with low carbonation gives just a bit of foamy mouthfeel that coats the mouth with a thick and viscous finish, abv hidden well

O- super complex with tone of caramel/dark fruit sweetness througout. Oxidation starting to set in, this may have been at it's prime at around two years

Nov 24, 2016
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YodersBeerEmporium from Iowa

4.71/5  rDev +9.3%
look: 4.5 | smell: 4.75 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.75

Traded for this one some time ago and took it along on a trip to Ocean Blue resort in the Dominican Republic because their beer sucks there....This was amazing! Tasty chocolate and caramel notes. Didnt taste anything like any other Old Ale that I have had before. Really enjoyed this!

Jun 13, 2016
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auroracrisis from Kentucky

4.3/5  rDev -0.2%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.25 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.25

2013 bottle into a stemless wine glass.

Murky body with a bit of a head when poured aggressively. Burgundy with brown highlights and the smallest ring of foam around the body. The beer is about as murky as you can get. A bit of legging as it's sipped down.

Burnt turbinado sugar and prunes on the nose at first. Moves more into the pitted fruit as the beer warms. Figs, dates, raisins, and a hint of molasses. A bit boozy as it warms, like a port wine.

Raisins and port wine on the tongue at first. After resting it opens up with bakers chocolate and fleeting hints at more pitted fruit such as plums and figs. Booze shines through as the beer warms up. Not as complex as the nose, but definitely still solid. A bit surprised because in the last couple bottles I've had of this, the flavors were stellar.

Heavy but leaning towards the medium side with a smooth, sticky body. A bit cloying with almost no carbonation.

Outstanding nose of pitted fruit and burnt sugars with a similar flavor that was a bit lack luster in comparison. I'm going to chalk that up as an off bottle, as the other 2-3 I've had in the last year of this vintage have been much better. I've factored this into the taste score a bit, but I'll revisit this if I remember and the beer shines in the next bottle I open.

Mar 23, 2016
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CowsandBeer from Nebraska

4.34/5  rDev +0.7%
look: 4 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.25

12 oz bottle poured into a Bourbon County 15’ snifter. Thanks to RWNewhouse the long ago IP trade at 23d Street Brewery. 2010 bottle.
Appearance: A straight down the middle pour produces the thinnest of a khaki ring. Body is a brilliant dark ruby. Clear but not see through. Sudsy lacing with nice legs. Beer or port wine?
Aroma: Brown sugary malts, caramel, and toffee with a slight vinous edge. Light cardboard on the finish. Marshmallowy and a bit of chocolate. A smidge of a piney note as well. Smells sweet and malty for days.
Taste: Thankfully improving as it warms. Up front GIANT Werther's and marshmallow, raisin, figs, sticky sweet stone fruit, toffee, and a slight vinous edge. An odd savory/vegetal note I get sometimes in older beers. I’m glad I left this warm up as it really came together.
Mf: Slick with no carbonation and heavy body. Warming though not as much as you’d expect. Very sweet but a great fit for the taste.
Overall: A complete surprise in that I’ve never had a beer with this kind of profile at this age. Totally caught me off guard. Sweet toffee candy and caramel for days. Heavy feel with no carbonation. It is a little oxidized but still hanging in there. Total cellar dweller.

Feb 22, 2016
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jzeilinger from Pennsylvania

4.22/5  rDev -2.1%
look: 3.75 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.25 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.25

In review is a 2011 vintage bottle.

A - Pours a deep raisin color with an ultra thin toffee colored lacing ring.

S - Raisins, brown sugar, maple, molasses, oak, bourbon, and figs. Nice complex aroma that opens as the beer sits.

T - Boozy from start to finish. Roasted toffee and caramel, bourbon, oak, figs, raisins, slightly medicinal, and leaves a coating of brown sugar, bourbon, toasted malt, oak, and a slight citrus presence.

M - Very thick, full bodied, slippery, syrupy body, velvety.

O - This beer has aged gracefully and opens up as the beer sits in the glass.

Oct 25, 2015
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brentk56 from North Carolina

4.37/5  rDev +1.4%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4 | overall: 4.25

2010 bottling

Appearance: Pours a clear coffee color with a modest head that quickly fades to a ringlet; leggy with dots of lacing

Smell: Fig, raisin, molasses, nougat and butter brickle

Taste: Dark fruit flavors forward, bringing fig and raisin with building undertones of molasses and caramel; nougat and butter brickle flavors build, after the swallow; there is a harsh character in the finish

Mouthfeel: Full bodied with low carbonation

Overall: Five years in the bottle and things have come together nicely here; on to the BB version for comparison's sake

Oct 11, 2015
Photo of -Rick
-Rick from Massachusetts

4.6/5  rDev +6.7%
look: 4.5 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.5

Got in a trade
L: brown, with a redish hue
S: sweet caramel, fig, vanilla
T: like the nose, sweet caramel, chocolate, and vanilla
F: creamy
O: this beer is amazing, a must try

Jul 22, 2015
Photo of Rutager
Rutager from Canada (BC)

4.21/5  rDev -2.3%
look: 3.75 | smell: 4 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4

2012 bottle courtesy or Buschbeer. Cheers dude!

Pours a deep rusty brown with a thin khaki head. Plums and caramel on the nose, a touch of port, and a little alcohol. Tons of raisins sprinkled with brown sugar on the tongue. Toffee for sure, maybe a bit burnt, more dark fruit, a touch of warm booze. This is fantastic. Thanks again, Buschbeer.

Jul 22, 2015
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JohnnyHopps from Indiana

4.6/5  rDev +6.7%
look: 4.5 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.5

Appearance - The beer was a murky brown color.

Smell - The nose was sticky sweet with malt impressions.

Taste - The initial impression was for sweet malts. Sweet and syrupy malt are prominent. Maraschino cherries, fruit cocktail, and a hint of baker 's chocolate were in the background. The aftertaste is dry like a green apple but maintains the sweetness.

Mouthfeel - With low carbonation, the impression is almost sticky.

Overall - This is phenominal.

May 24, 2015
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GreesyFizeek from New York

4.73/5  rDev +9.7%
look: 4.25 | smell: 5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.75

Bottle received in a recent trade with mikeyson4, thanks man. '13 vintage.

This one pours a deep brown, with basically no head or lacing.

This smells just decadent, intense and incredible- there's super sweet raisin puree, a port-like vinous note, chocolate, caramel, and toffee, and just the slightest hint of booze.

The best way to describe the flavor of this one is intense. There's really quite a lot going on here. The strongest flavor is dark fruit, with a really big Belgian-like raisin character. It almost tastes port-barrel aged or something like that, as there's a definite mild tart wine-like character. There's a really nice baker's chocolate aspect as well, as well as sarsaparilla, caramel, and toffee. The 1.5 year bottle here has aged very nicely, the booze character is very mild, and is mainly just warming. There's some cherry and sherry character as well, maybe from slight oxidation, or maybe it's intended. Doesn't really matter, this is delicious.

This has a very syrupy and slightly sugary mouthfeel. It's still very drinkable though, and not at all cloying. The carbonation level is pretty low.

Another amazing big beer from the guys at Kuhnhenn- they know how to do it right.

Apr 03, 2015
Photo of notchucknorris
notchucknorris from California

4.5/5  rDev +4.4%
look: 4.5 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.5

2012 Bottle

A: Pours a sludgy, deep brown color with a huge (for the ABV) two finger tan head that shows great retention.

S: I'm getting a lot of the smells that I'm used to in an Old Ale (thick brown sugar, date, prune, rye bread and honey notes), but everything seems really tightly pulled together in this one, which is really hard to find. Everything in here seems a touch more toned down, but works together really well.

T: I mean, I'm not gonna lie, this is not a style I typically enjoy. But wow this is good. A huge note of brandy and honey soaked raisins right away, followed by some burnt brownie, dark chocolate covered raisin, a little bit of tobacco and some rye bread. Finishes sweet and malty with a slight dryness from the alcohol. Mouthfeel is near perfect. Slick but well carbed, which hides the alcohol ridiculously well. Top notch.

Mar 03, 2015
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pjkelley82 from New York

4.56/5  rDev +5.8%
look: 3 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.75

Poured from the bottle into a Kuhnhenn mini snifter... 2013 vintage.

A-lackluster, transparent leather brown in color that gave off a quick 1/4 mocha colored head that was soda like and disappeared just as fast. No ring or skin left but legs for days, very sparse lacing. It's ABV is showing through.

S-ummmm, yeah... The flavors are super strong in the nose. A very powerful and full smell of Brown sugar, sugared dates, caramel, toffee, slight alcohol smell to it but it tells you this drink is not playing around.

T- Taste follows the nose with much emphasis placed on very bold and full tasting. I cannot think of a beer that better describes flavorful or taste explosion. Nice vanilla taste to mellow things out and the alcohol is noticeable but dangerously tolerable.

F-I would say medium to full bodied but feels alot heavier while not becoming sticky or cloying. Not much carb to it, but most of it goes dancing around in the alcohol.

O-Kuhnhenn is my Favorite brewery so I am biased but I could have a blind tasting with 20 different old ales and this would guarantee be top three if not 1. Definitely the best old ale I've had.

Jan 22, 2015
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MDDMD from Pennsylvania

4.35/5  rDev +0.9%

A-brown burgundy color with a nice tan head and good lacing

S-brown sugar, toffee, dark fruit, vanilla, malt

T-caramel malt, toffee, vanilla, figs, plums, dates, light chocolate, little nutty

F-medium body with moderate carbonation, smooth and a little alcohol comes through

O-delicious ale, great dessert beer, love sipping this

Aug 27, 2014
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blankenhoney from Ohio

4.58/5  rDev +6.3%
look: 4.25 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.75

Enjoyed this one at Kuhnhenn's on Mead Day '14.

A: Pours a dark and cloudy shade of burnt mahogany. Looks great.

S: Sweet, rich, and deep: 4D has aromas of brown sugar, caramel, and toffee. Lots of vanilla, too. Smells a lot like a barrel-aged barleywine.

T: The flavors here are rich and sweet, with lots of toffee, apricots, molasses, and vanilla. But the beer isn't cloying at all; in fact, it's highly crushable, partly because of a bright fruitiness on the finish that lightens the load and makes things interesting. About as good as it gets…can only imagine how good the barrel-aged edition is.

M: Nice balance between creaminess and viscousness.

O: Amazeballs…could drink this one all day. Aside from appearances, reminds me a lot of Bourbon County Barleywine. God bless Warren, MI.

Aug 02, 2014
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Beejay from Virginia

4.36/5  rDev +1.2%
look: 4 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.25

Huge thanks to RocPorterFanatic for this brew.

A: Very dark brown in color, slightly hazy, and a quaint tan head on the top.

S: Intense malt, and a good amount of sweetness. Molasses, caramel, brown sugar and perhaps a hint of dark chocolate or licorice.

T: Sweet, with brown sugar, caramel, and dark fruits. There is a hint of bread, as well as an almost orange zest like flavor in the finish, you can't taste the alcohol as much as you can feel it. Very nice.

M: Medium heavy, carbonation is low, and there is a stickiness to it, that I think works in the finish. If anything it feels slightly lighter than I would have thought.

O: Overall a hell of a malt bomb to round out your day with. Delicious, smooth, and dangerous.

Jul 07, 2014
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rlee1390 from Indiana

4/5  rDev -7.2%
look: 4 | smell: 4 | taste: 4 | feel: 4 | overall: 4

A-Clear ruby amber, not much carbonation one finger off white head

S-Malt heavy, caramel, dark fruits and raisins.

T-Very sweet with caramel and molasses, lots of dark fruits. Balance is slightly off

M-Medium to heavy not much carbonation

O-Was expecting a lot better, glad I was able to try it but was not my cup of tea.

Apr 11, 2014
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ThickNStout from Georgia

4.6/5  rDev +6.7%
look: 4 | smell: 4.5 | taste: 4.75 | feel: 4.75 | overall: 4.5

12oz bottle from IAmJacksHopTongue (much apprecitaed!). 2013 bottling. Served in a Bruery snifter.

Pours an opaque chestnut with a minimal cap of pale head. Trace bubbles remain around the edges without leaving any lace to speak of.

Smells akin to a nice port. Dark fruit, caramel, toast and a faine wine-like alcohol note. Nice.

Taste follows the nose. Raisin, fig, caramel, burnt brown sugar, tawny port, toasted marshmallow, earthy vanilla and a little booze. A splendid ensemble of old ale flavors that goes down dangerously easily for it's 13.5% abv.

Body is medium heavy and syrupy with light carbonation. A pleasant port, caramel and toasted marshmallow finish.

This is an outstanding old ale. Such richness and complexity set it well above most other examples of the style that I've encountered. This is a beer worth hoarding to enjoy over many years. Very highly recommended.

Apr 01, 2014
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Stevedore from Oregon

4.24/5  rDev -1.6%
look: 4 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.25 | feel: 4.25 | overall: 4.25

12oz bottle of the 2013 Winter Solstice release; poured into a Hill Farmstead stemmed glass alongside the 2013 Bourbon-barrel aged version in a separate glass, today, 1/15/2014.

Pours a fairly standard dark brown body with a fluffy tan head that dissipates fairly quickly. Looks like a barleywine, really. Nothing out of the ordinary. Lacing is non-existent.

Smells very sweet- lots of caramel, toffee and dark fruits- even more interesting than BB4D which is a beer where the barrel vanilla dominates so much- and is even a little more complex. Still, I am missing the vanilla even though I enjoy the complexity and intensity of this beer.

Flavourwise, very sweet- lots of toffee, butterscotch and molasses, which isn't cut by the oak and vanilla of the BB4D which kind of takes away from my experience with this beer. Still complex with a lot going on; I can see why some people prefer this to BB4D. I'm not one of these people, however.

Medium to full bodied, well carbonated and slick. Not terribly difficult to drink. Aftertaste is mostly a dark fruity butterscotch flavour; different than the BB4D.

BB4D is definitely a better choice than regular 4D; given it was only a dollar more, I wouldn't bother with 4D; but 4D is a great beer in its own right so if you have the option to get it alongside BB4D, I would definitely recommend taking it. I can see why some people prefer the 4D to the BB4D.

Jan 16, 2014
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StoutHunter from Michigan

4.35/5  rDev +0.9%
look: 3 | smell: 4.25 | taste: 4.5 | feel: 4.5 | overall: 4.5

I got a bottle of Kuhnhenn's Fourth Dementia 4D as an awesome birthday present from my friend Ben. I'm a big Kuhnhenn fan but since they are still a pretty small operation I only see their beers at Beer Festivals or at some of the better bars and I don't get a chance to try their beers as much as I would like to, but I've been wanting to try 4D ever since I first found out about Kuhnhenn, so lets see how it goes. 2013 Vintage, 13.5%. Poured from a brown 12oz bottle into a snifter.

A= The label looks pretty nice, it's just got a fancy and classy look to it with some shiny gold 4D on the label, it's the best Kuhnhenn label I've seen since most of them look like they printed on a standard computers printer. It poured a pretty cloudy and murky brown color that didn't let much light through and it looked even murkier when held to the light with a half of fingers worth of tan/off white head that quickly faded away to nothing and it left a really small amount of spotty lacing behind. This isn't the greatest looking beer, just by looking at it in the glass it isn't that attractive, but it's not so bad looking I wouldn't give it a try, I don't think any beer can look that bad.

S- The aroma starts off with a higher amount of sweetness that had a slight molasses aroma to it followed by loads of malts being the first to show up and they impart some great caramel and toffee aromas with a pretty good amount of dark fruits showing up next with no single fruit seeming to stick out the most. Up next comes a sweet and noticeable boozy aroma followed by a little bit of roasted malts on the finish that give this beer a rich, lightly roasted and light chocolate like aroma and there's also a light leather like aroma. This beer has a very nice aroma, I think it's fairly complex and I thought the different aspects worked well with each other.

T- The taste seems to be pretty similar to the aroma and it starts off with a higher amount of sweetness which seems to be on the lower side, it's not cloying and imparts a slight molasses like flavor followed by some great caramel and toffee flavors with an equal amount of dark fruits that show up also with no single fruit seeming to stick out the most. Up next comes a slight leather flavor with a pretty light alcohol flavor that is very well hidden and it's not nearly as boozy as I thought it would be. Towards the end comes a light tobacco like flavor with some roasted malts showing up at the end with a light chocolate flavor and a lower amount of bitterness with a caramel, toffee, dark fruit, and light roasted malt aftertaste. This was a very good tasting beer that was pretty complex with some expertly hidden alcohol.

M- Fairly smooth, a little sticky, pretty rich, a little creamy, full bodied with a lower amount of carbonation that worked nicely with this beer. This beer had a very good mouthfeel that was pretty much perfect for this beer.

Overall I thought this was very good beer and very good example of an Old Ale, Bell's Third Coast Old Ale was my favorite Old Ale, but I have to say after trying this I think 4D blows it out of the water, not that Third Coast Old Ale isn't great, 4D is just pretty much better in every aspect besides price and it's just a more intense and complex version of Old Ale that is just as smooth, maybe even smoother than Third Coast Old Ale which blows my mind. This beer had great drinkability, the 13.5 wasn't nearly as noticeable as I thought it would be, it was fairly smooth, complex, rich, a little sticky, pretty filling, and the taste did a great job at holding my attention, I think one bottle would be the perfect amount for me and if I had the chance I would could probably drink two, but I'm sure i would be feeling it in the morning. What I liked the most about this beer was how well the alcohol was hidden, it seriously blew my mind that a 13.5% Old Ale could be this smooth, I'm very impressed by that and I thought the taste was awesome. What I liked the least about this beer was the appearance, it just isn't a good looking, which overall isn't that big of a deal and I learned a while ago to never judge a beer on it's looks. I would for sure buy this beer if I ever saw it for sale, it's pretty pricey but I think it's worth it and it makes for a nice beer for a special occasions. I would highly recommend this beer to anyone who likes Old Ales or big beers in general, I don't think this will disappoint. All in all I was pretty impressed with this beer, I expected good things from this beer but all together it exceeded my expectations and I think it's an overall great beer and I would love to try the barrel aged version of this one day and I'm pretty sure this would be a great beer to cellar and I think it could get even better with time. Great work guys, I think the Kuhnhenns are simply the best at what they do and this is a world class beer, keep up the great work guys.

Jan 12, 2014
Fourth Dementia (4D) from Kuhnhenn Brewing Company
Beer rating: 95 out of 100 with 1075 ratings